Turkish Deputy Minister of National Defence: "We will be discussing with our Pakistani counterparts to officially include Pakistan in our jet program"

[TheSolution]

If they were hired directly then it can’t be called a collaboration yet. Just like NASA.
There are many Asians hired by NASA but it remains a US controlled and used entity.

Paksiatn would be able to call it a collaboration, only after it sends it‘s manpower officially. Collaboration for KAAN is the only option Paksiatn has, to get it’s hands on next gen fighter. Considering geopolitics, economics and technical capabilities.

Okay seems I might have been wrong and there has been official collaboration, @Zarvan was right

https://twitter.com/x/status/1687458600053100544

 

[arslank03]

Okay seems I might have been wrong and there has been official collaboration, @Zarvan was right

https://twitter.com/x/status/1687458600053100544

just to clarify, NSTP is taking part, not NASTP.

 

[JamD]

just to clarify, NSTP is taking part, not NASTP.

Not even NSTP. Turkish Aerospace Pakistan, which happens to be currently located in NSTP, is doing these things. NOT NASTP. This slide is a blatant blatant lie.

 

[Bilal.]

Not even NSTP. Turkish Aerospace Pakistan, which happens to be currently located in NSTP, is doing these things. NOT NASTP. This slide is a blatant blatant lie.

True. Just noticed, the document on the slide is incorporation certificate of TAI Pakistan by SEC not a cooperation agreement.

 

[GreatHanWarrior]

Oh dear..
Your sort were negative about jf17. Said couldn't be done.
Your sort laughed at China and its military products. And are still laughing.
Your sorts only think your white masters can do something.

Now go and look at what Turkey has achieved in such a short time. From drones to ASEA radars. From APC to missiles. A global leader in fields like lazer tech but a village idiot will always be a village idiot.

You give India as an example where their educated think that cow urine is sacred. What has Indian done that works properly.

Keep going

Turkish fighter jet KAAN to soar with indigenous engine in 2028 - TRT Afrika

The fifth-generation aircraft KAAN was developed by Turkish Aerospace Industries (TAI) with an aim to replace the Turkish army's aging F-16 fleet.

www.trtafrika.com

https://www.overtdefense.com/2023/04/28/turkeys-utility-helicopter-gokbey-makes-its-first-flight-with-a-domestic-engine/

Sure, i am just a mere village idiot, just a village idiot with a degree in Aerospace who is also a pilot.

I wasn't born when the JF-17 was conceived, though, there is absolutely nothing remarkable about the program anyway. Woohoo we are assembling an aircraft, big win in your book I guess.
lol im intimately familiar with China and it's export equipment, i won't even touch on that but there are many on this forum who can vouch.

drones, lasers, apc's, and missiles are all great, but they are not engines. Once again, they are not engines though. There is a reason why more countries have had nuclear programs than domestic engine programs, because, well, one is extremely difficult and requires capabilities only very few have.

You can also shit on India but they are leagues ahead of Pakistan in terms of R&D and output, they also have something to brag about when it comes to domestic jets, they created a whole ecosystem enabling them to actually ground up design aircraft and systems at the sacrifice of the Tejas, whereas you are bragging about lego assembling a jet and painting it green for the most part (though admittedly there is some further development which i wrote about here https://www.shephardmedia.com/news/...an-moves-ahead-with-domestic-aesa-radar-deve/ )

I couldn't care less who worships what or believes what, but India, investing billions, with infinite help from Safran etc, and significant govt backing couldn't do it with ease.

China, with a proven core, 200bn dollars, 30+ years only now managed to do it.

and here you expect me to believe that Turkey will do it with ease because they produce missiles and APC's lol. Cut me a break, let me know when said missiles and APC's, are operating at 2000 degrees while rotating thousands of times per minute all while having to have a many thousand-hour service life after operating for hours non stop.

First. China manufactured aviation engines in the 1960s (WS-6). About 60 years. Not 30 years.

Then. I think Türkiye's air engine is very successful. Better than South Korea and India. It just doesn't have flight tests currently.

Finally. There is a very practical problem - production capacity. Currently, India manufactures 6 tejas per year. South Korea manufactures 2 KF21 per year. I don't know how many TFX Türkiye makes every year.

I believe Türkiye will succeed. It's just making fighter jets and its engines. No need to consider other aircraft. This will concentrate Türkiye's aviation resources.

wish Türkiye Pakistan happy cooperation.

 

[Ali_Baba]

I "suspect" that Turkey is working with and co-operating with Ukraine (via Motor Sich) on the core design principles of jets engine's through ToT/tech transfer - in return for Ukranian access to Turkish weapon systems and future co-development of systems. I do see Ukraine as a potential customer of the Ka'an where the "USA" may be senstive to Russian concerns of the supply of weapons in the future and restrict the sale of certain systems like Stealth, but Turkey won't be sensitive to Russia as it looks to aggresively grow its own military industry.

This is a speculative theory based on the degree of co-operation to date and help that Turkey has provided to date.

 

[xbat]

there is no co operation between TEI and motor sich. Turkey had major projects for engine production last decade and successfully completed them ,like titanium, nickel (alloys) casting, forging and even powder for 3D printers. tei has upper instutie for them but there are many smaller companies and instuties. finally we produced first aviation engine TS1400 and serial production agreement was signed recently. personally i dont think that motor sich has capability over TEI , they have only production-ready engines nothing else. it takes time to design and certify an aviation engine. we have 3dgeneration single crystal blades today, which is top of this technology, also TEI is able to make that blades with 3d printers.

TEI is making GET700 turboshaft engines without and problem, they can make Turkish engines too, i see no problem for that

 

[aziqbal]

Malaysia and Indonesia please sign this deal

and Azerbaijan and Pakistan also add your names

then comes the bigger players in the Middle East

I really hope KAAN unites the Muslim nations

next add all the other jigsaws around this like UCAVS and Missiles

 

[Hold the door]

Malaysia and Indonesia please sign this deal

and Azerbaijan and Pakistan also add your names

then comes the bigger players in the Middle East

I really hope KAAN unites the Muslim nations

next add all the other jigsaws around this like UCAVS and Missiles

Nigeria and Saudi Arabia should also be partners.

They prefer to wait because they don't believe in Kaan 100%.

 

[Tank131]

So their are a number of differences when it comes to China and Turkey vis a vis jet engines. The main one being that the main source of turbofan engines for China historically were the Russians, and they refused to share even production ToT let alone help China develop an indigenous industry for this. Turkey on the other hand has veen assembling (not truly manufacturing) F110 for F-16S AND directly responsible for maintenance of Turkish, Bahraini, and Saudi F110s as well as performing SLEP. TEI has assembled over 300 F110s. Then in last 2010s both BAE and RR offered engines for TFX with BAE offering tech to help create a derivative of EJ200. Now where these have actually gone im not entirely sure but Turkey has other hands in the pot which have helped it progress.

Regardless, with multiple potential engines on offer, from one from RR/Kale group to BAEs EJ200 to F110, That gives me the impression this may be a modular design which could potentially fit multiple engines with some reworking. So if a turkish engine is not available, a chinese engine may not be out of the realm of possibility for PAF IF it joins the program early.

 

[Indos]

Malaysia and Indonesia please sign this deal

For Indonesia, we need to focus on KF21/IFX program, current government is still not funding the program properly and it includes our cost share and the production line. We cannot have two fighter programs running simultaneously. We are not USA.

Despite so, our cooperation with the Turks are happening in other areas. Maybe we can integrate Turkish missiles into our IFX later,or using Turkish subsystem in our IFX program. Indonesian version will be developed after we get the prototype soon inshaAllah, this is what I heard from my connection in Indonesian Aerospace. Turkish missile program and also TFX program I think will help Indonesia IFX program. We may get some subsystem from Dassault as well as we buy many Rafale (42 planes) and also due to the fact that we have become strategic partner (Indonesia and France).

The KF21 prototype 5 is intended for Indonesian Aerospace as test bed plane for our own development. There are things that will be different between Indonesian and Korean version. There some US subsystem that cannot go to Indonesian hand as well, Turkish TFX program can possibly help our program. But to make it clear, our program is not in competition with Turkish, we cannot sell our KF21 version except for our own Air Force.

The fact that US has imposed export license restriction to Indonesia for several subsystems, so the sale of KF21 is really facing some problem. Indonesia can have its own version with its own development inshaAllah to replace several US subystems with the help of our friends like Turkish or France, but for countries such as Egypt, Saudi, Malaysia who cannot do that thing, how can KF21 be sold to them ? This is the thing where TFX can fill....

Or maybe it is just Indonesia that US dont trust......while the planes can be exported with all US components to other countries with no export license problem/restriction.....

In term of US technology in KF21 program, it needs their congress approval, South Korea for example cannot get 4 core technologies, while Indonesia cannot get those 4 core technologies + other core technologies. South Korea then develop their own for those 4 technologies, including AESA radar, while Indonesia must face its own problem alone as we can get the Korean ones for those 4 technologies, but not the other American subsystems that Korean can get while Indonesia cannot. We only can get that for prototype 5 that will be given to Indonesian Aerospace after the development in Korea is completed and we paid our cost share fully (expected in 2026 or 2027), not to our mass production version.

KF21 prototype 5

For Malaysia, I dont know, they have suspended their MRCA acquisition program until 2028. They have chances to order TFX if TFX program runs smoothly and can reach mass production phase in 2028. Understandable for them to not pick Hurjet as it is not even reaching mass production phase when the tender happen that wins FA50 Golden Eagle, but for MRCA program TFX has high chance to be ordered by Malaysia.

 

[aziqbal]

For Indonesia, we need to focus on KF21/IFX program, current government is still not funding the program properly and it includes our cost share and the production line. We cannot have two fighter programs running simultaneously. We are not USA.

Despite so, our cooperation with the Turks are happening in other areas. Maybe we can integrate Turkish missiles into our IFX later,or using Turkish subsystem in our IFX program. Indonesian version will be developed after we get the prototype soon inshaAllah, this is what I heard from my connection in Indonesian Aerospace. Turkish missile program and also TFX program I think will help Indonesia IFX program. We may get some subsystem from Dassault as well as we buy many Rafale (42 planes) and also due to the fact that we have become strategic partner (Indonesia and France).

The KF21 prototype 5 is intended for Indonesian Aerospace as test bed plane for our own development. There are things that will be different between Indonesian and Korean version. There some US subsystem that cannot go to Indonesian hand as well, Turkish TFX program can possibly help our program. But to make it clear, our program is not in competition with Turkish, we cannot sell our KF21 version except for our own Air Force.

The fact that US has imposed export license restriction to Indonesia for several subsystems, so the sale of KF21 is really facing some problem. Indonesia can have its own version with its own development inshaAllah to replace several US subystems with the help of our friends like Turkish or France, but for countries such as Egypt, Saudi, Malaysia who cannot do that thing, how can KF21 be sold to them ? This is the thing where TFX can fill....

Or maybe it is just Indonesia that US dont trust......while the planes can be exported with all US components to other countries with no export license problem/restriction.....

In term of US technology in KF21 program, it needs their congress approval, South Korea for example cannot get 4 core technologies, while Indonesia cannot get those 4 core technologies + other core technologies. South Korea then develop their own for those 4 technologies, including AESA radar, while Indonesia must face its own problem alone as we can get the Korean ones for those 4 technologies, but not the other American subsystems that Korean can get while Indonesia cannot. We only can get that for prototype 5 that will be given to Indonesian Aerospace after the development in Korea is completed and we paid our cost share fully (expected in 2026 or 2027), not to our mass production version.

KF21 prototype 5

For Malaysia, I dont know, they have suspended their MRCA acquisition program until 2028. They have chances to order TFX if TFX program runs smoothly and can reach mass production phase in 2028. Understandable for them to not pick Hurjet as it is not even reaching mass production phase when the tender happen that wins FA50 Golden Eagle, but for MRCA program TFX has high chance to be ordered by Malaysia.

KF21 is also a top their program by South Korea and Indonesia did well to make the decision to join this fighter program

I think it was all about timing had the KAAN came along 3-5 year earlier I think Indonesia would have joined it over the KF21 simply because of the religious ties to Turkey

both KAAN and KF21 is very robust 5th generation programs lead by very advanced nations on a personal note however I would say aesthetically the KF21 is a beautiful aircraft

 

[Dalit]

Pakistan is of course a country we love, but what will happen if the USA puts an embargo on the f110 engine?

This partnership should have been announced after the domestic engine was guaranteed.

It will be the same story as the T129 ATAK helicopter.

 

[White and Green with M/S]

J-20 is on table if Pakistan wants it, Pakistan didn't need it right now.

No it not for export

 

[arslank03]

Pakistan is of course a country we love, but what will happen if the USA puts an embargo on the f110 engine?

This partnership should have been announced after the domestic engine was guaranteed.

Then Pakistan, still being a stakeholder in the project is still benefitting economically until a workaround for engine is found