Turkish Armed Forces to train Libyan Army

[Frogman]

@al-Hasani @Doritos11

Egypt has an agreement with the Libyan Armed Forces as well as its government to train the majority of its officer corps and to advise it on the acquisition OF weapons systems which may include some Egyptian built K-8's. The Libyan Defence Minister and several Libyan Armed Forces personnel visited Egypt and were taken on a tour of the AIO's factories.

Dorritos, the training of Officer Cadets is still a large commitment, especially when you take into consideration that these men will become the leaders of the Libyan Armed Forces. They will be tasked with leading (hopefully) professional warriors into the battlefield and doing so in a manner becoming of an Officer. That commitment is also a large one because to produce an Officer in Egypt it takes 4 years. We have also taken their Special Forces under our wing SA3KA FIDA' MAGD!

 

[al-Hasani]

@al-Hasani @Doritos11

Egypt has an agreement with the Libyan Armed Forces as well as its government to train the majority of its officer corps and to advise it on the acquisition OF weapons systems which may include some Egyptian built K-8's. The Libyan Defence Minister and several Libyan Armed Forces personnel visited Egypt and were taken on a tour of the AIO's factories.

Dorritos, the training of Officer Cadets is still a large commitment, especially when you take into consideration that these men will become the leaders of the Libyan Armed Forces. They will be tasked with leading (hopefully) professional warriors into the battlefield and doing so in a manner becoming of an Officer. That commitment is also a large one because to produce an Officer in Egypt it takes 4 years. We have also taken their Special Forces under our wing SA3KA FIDA' MAGD!

Thank you for clarifying that bro and talking "my case" in this thread.

 

[Frogman]

Thank you for clarifying that bro and talking "my case" in this thread.

No problem. I actually think what the Libyans are doing isn't that much of a bright idea but its their choice. Outsourcing all the training to 10+ countries will be a nightmare when they begin to form platoons/battalions/divisions etc. You will get a lot of troops with weaknesses in certain areas or were taught how to do certain things a different way depending on the country in which they received training. All I can really do is wish them the best and hope to meet some dedicated Officer Cadets at Royal Military Academy Sandhurst in a few years (hopefully).

 

[al-Hasani]

No problem. I actually think what the Libyans are doing isn't that much of a bright idea but its their choice. Outsourcing all the training to 10+ countries will be a nightmare when they begin to form platoons/battalions/divisions etc. You will get a lot of troops with weaknesses in certain areas or were taught how to do certain things a different way depending on the country in which they received training. All I can really do is wish them the best and hope to meet some dedicated Officer Cadets at Royal Military Academy Sandhurst in a few years (hopefully).

I actually agree with that. They should stick to a few countries. Preferably Egypt, KSA and Jordan in my opinion when speaking about the Arab countries. Outside of it they should stick to UK/USA.

Anyway I think that they will realize this on their own. Hopefully before any major conflict.

Are you enlisting at Sandhurst? Good luck. Not easy to enter from what I know about?! Many well to do families in KSA are enlisting their sons there. Including members of the royal family.

 

[Frogman]

I actually agree with that. They should stick to a few countries. Preferably Egypt, KSA and Jordan in my opinion when speaking about the Arab countries. Outside of it they should stick to UK/USA.

Anyway I think that they will realize this on their own. Hopefully before any major conflict.

Are you enlisting at Sandhurst? Good luck. Not easy to enter from what I know about?! Many well to do families in KSA are enlisting their sons there. Including members of the royal family.

Yes, they should have done that. It would have also made the transition from a rag tag militia to a semi-professional military a lot shorter considering they wouldn't have to bring everyone up to speed since the majority of those troops would have received the same basic training. They seriously need a military right now to deal with the militias.

Yes, hopefully after my degree is done I will enlist. Currently I'm an Officer Cadet in the UOTC and have the choice of commission as a Second Lieutenant in the British Army Reserves in the coming year (although I think I might do it in 2015 instead) which means I can go to Sandhurst. Then as a Reserve Officer (after graduation) I can apply for a full time role which involves doing the full shabang at RMAS.

 

[xenon54 out]

I actually agree with that. They should stick to a few countries. Preferably Egypt, KSA and Jordan in my opinion when speaking about the Arab countries. Outside of it they should stick to UK/USA.

Anyway I think that they will realize this on their own. Hopefully before any major conflict.

Turkey has more experience in training foreign soldiers than any other Arab nation. We trained various soldiers from countrys in Balkans, ME and Central Asia.

We served in various International operations:

• Koreakrieg (1950–1953)[24]
• UNIMOG, 1988–1991[25]
• Operation Maritime Monitor, 1992–1996[25]
• UNITAF, 1993–1994[25]
• UNOSOM II, 1993–1994[25]
• Operation Deny Flight, 1993–1995[25]
• UNMIS, 1993–1994[25]
• UNPROFOR, 1993–1995[25]
• UNOMIG, Georgien, 1994–2009[25]
• IFOR, 1995–1996[25]
• SFOR, 1996–2004[25]
• TIPH, Temporäre Internationale Präsenz in der Stadt Hebron, 1997–2008[25]
• OSCE KVM, Kosovo, 1999[25]
• UNTAET, 2000–2002[25]
• UNMIBH, Bosnien und Herzegowina, 2001–2002[25]
• UNMISET, 2002–2004[25]
• OSCE BMO, Grenzkontrollmission zwischen Georgien und Tschetschenien, 2000–2004[25]
• MONUC, 2006[25]
• EUPOL KINSHASA, Polizeimission, 2006–2007[25]
• OSCE Georgia Observer Mission, Georgien, 2006–2009[25]
• Operation Allied Provider, 2008[25]
• Operation Allied Protector, 2009[25]

Ongoing Missions:

• KFOR, seit 1999[25]
• ISAF NATO-Einsatz in Afghanistan (2001): Von Juni 2002 bis Februar 2003 stand der Einsatz unter türkischer Leitung. Derzeit sind 1795 türkische Soldaten im Einsatz. Von Februar bis August 2005 stand das Kommando erneut für sechs Monate unter türkischer Führung.[25]
• Althea, seit 2004[25]
• UNMIS, seit 2005[25]
• UNAMID, seit 2006[25]
• UNIFIL, seit 2006[25]
• CTF-151, seit 2009. Aktuell wird die TCG GEDIZ im Rahmen einer Nato-Aktion im Golf von Aden eingesetzt, um Transporte des Welternährungsprogramms nach Somalia zu schützen und Piratenangriffe abzuwehren.[25]
• Operation Ocean Shield, seit 2009[25]
• NTM-I, seit 2004[25]

http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Türkische_Streitkräfte#Internationale_B.C3.BCndnisse


To be honest, i dont think that any Arab Nation can give them the same quality training like Turkish Armed Forces.

And this leads to my question, why do you exclude Turkish Armed Forces here?

 

[Frogman]

Turkey has more experience in training foreign soldiers than any other Arab nation. We trained various soldiers from countrys in Balkans, ME and Central Asia.

This isn't an Arab Vs Turk military thread nor is anyone posturing. What me and my friend were talking about is whether outsourcing their training to 10+ countries was a good idea.

To be honest, i dont think that any Arab Nation can give them the same quality training like Turkish Armed Forces.

You would be surprised.

And this leads to my question, why do you exclude Turkish Armed Forces here?

Language barrier?
Closer ties with neighboring states?

The Turkish Armed Forces complies with NATO regulation, so wouldn't it be safe to assume that Libyan troops would be afforded the same level of training in any NATO membership country and therefore there isn't a vital need to spread their troops among many nations? so what difference would it make if Turkey was excluded from the list, same goes for the Americans what difference would it make it Turkey was included but the US omitted?

 

[xenon54 out]

You would be surprised.

I dont think so.

Language barrier?

So Libyans can communicate better with Americans/British than with Turks?
Language barrier was never a problem with other countrys we trained, why should it be with Libyans?

Closer ties with neighboring states?

Yeah, your right its not like that Turkey, Jordan and KSA have almost the same distance to Libya...
And US/UK are even closer right?

The Turkish Armed Forces complies with NATO regulation, so wouldn't it be safe to assume that Libyan troops would be afforded the same level of training in any NATO membership country and therefore there isn't a vital need to spread their troops among many nations?

Well, Libyans trusted us and gave us the responsibility to train their soldier, i dont see any problem there.

And i think it just fits perfect because we can train them to use these things.
Libya: Defence Ministry, Nexter, FNSS and 8x8 vehicles

 

[Doritos11]

Training other soldiers ( basic training especially ) even if it is done by the best force with a language barrier isn't that effective, french foreign legion does it a different way. You can’t teach discipline to them when they speak another language, you will end up speaking to them normally like the US have done in Iraq and Afghanistan, it doesn’t work well.

You use a translator that has to translate everything it will be indirect communication, it’s really ineffective for basic training.

 

[Frogman]

I dont think so.

Have you tried it? I'm guessing you haven't. So what are you basing your assumptions on?

So Libyans can communicate better with Americans/British than with Turks?

I was referring to why they would prefer to train with neighbouring Arabic Countries and yes I do think they would be able to communicate better with the Yanks and us Limeys. The majority of the Arab world is taught English in the first stages of primary education up until they leave school and Hollywood dominates a large part of Arab TV whereas Turkish isn't being taught in school and your excellent TV soaps are always dubbed.

Yeah, your right its not like that Turkey, Jordan and KSA have almost the same distance to Libya...
And US/UK are even closer right?

Not in a literal sense. You may be closer in terms of miles to Libya than some Arabic nations however culturally you aren't as similar.

Well, Libyans trusted us and gave us the responsibility to train their soldier, i dont see any problem there.

That's because there isn't one. The only problem I see is that they (the Libyans) have spread their troops across multiple nations at the same time and once these troops return they will have to undergo further training so they can all be up to the same standard or do certain things the same way and that's a problem for the Libyans to worry about not you.

And i think it just fits perfect because we can train them to use these things.

No ones saying they aren't a match maid in heaven.

 

[xenon54 out]

Have you tried it? I'm guessing you haven't. So what are you basing your assumptions on?

Its just a simple fact, i honestly think that Turkish Armed Forces can give them a better training.
Libyans need training to fight extremists and we are fighting extremists since decades, this leads to a significant cluster of experience and tactics.
We also have every capability to train them in Modern Warfare.

I was referring to why they would prefer to train with neighbouring Arabic Countries and yes I do think they would be able to communicate better with the Yanks and us Limeys. The majority of the Arab world is taught English in the first stages of primary education up until they leave school and Hollywood dominates a large part of Arab TV whereas Turkish isn't being taught in school and your excellent TV soaps are always dubbed.

Many militarys are trained by foreigners with foreign language its nothing new.

Not in a literal sense. You may be closer in terms of miles to Libya than some Arabic nations however culturally you aren't as similar.

We dont need to be culturally closer than Arabs to train them, this is a military training not a Cultural exchange week.

 

[Frogman]

Its just a simple fact

No it's an opinion.

i honestly think that Turkish Armed Forces can give them a better training.

And if the majority of the Arabic nations Libya sent troops to comply with NATO regulations and standards even though they aren't members, would they be able to provide the same level of training as their Turkish counterparts?

Libyans need training to fight extremists and we are fighting extremists since decades, this leads to a significant cluster of experience and tactics.

As have the Algerians, Moroccans, Saudi's and Yemenis. The Jordanians are also adept at COIN operations. Now, besides the Moroccan's and Yemeni's I don't see how the above nations are somehow inferior tactically or lack the experience to provide Libyan troops with basic training or training on COIN operations.

Many militarys are trained by foreigners with foreign language its nothing new.

Of course its nothing new. Its just easier to absorb what has been or is being taught to you when the instructor is using your native tongue rather than through a translator. Some things may be lost in translation. My point is that its far more efficient. I'm not arguing that the same results can't be achieved with foreign instructors its just that it will take longer (and that's alright if you have the time to spare).

We dont need to be culturally closer than Arabs to train them, this is a military training not a Cultural exchange week.

Have you seen what happens when nations have military exercises together? There's a massive amount of cultural ceremony that goes into it, now imagine your spending six months with someone who thinks completely differently than you and how long it will take them to adjust to your way of life and theirs to yours. Their culture will also influence their fighting doctrine or their allegiances.

I'm not arguing against anything here. You can train their entire military if you want to.

 

[xenon54 out]

Well, lets end it here or we could discuss for hours, its just wasting of time in the end.

No offence from my side to anyone.

 

[al-Hasani]

@Frogman

All the best of luck bro. Sounds really impressive. You are probably one of the few users on this section that envisions a military career.

 

[Neptune]

Best of luck...many ensigns from countries including KSA, Libya, Algeria, Pakistan, South Korea, Germany, US, Azerbaijan, Turkmenistan, UK are have been trained by Turkish Naval Academy. But they had recently suspended Egyptian personnel from the program. Other than that we are good to go .