Turkish Air Defence Programs

[Babur Han]

id you didnt had the dictator erdogan wich hate israel we could develop together

if

We can't sell these Systems to arab States by joint Development !

 

[theman111]

they will prefer to buy europan or american

we cant sell david sling and arrow too because it jont development with usa

 

[Babur Han]

they will prefer to buy europan or american

we cant sell david sling and arrow too because it jont development with usa

The arab States have no alternative to european, american, russian or chinese Systems, but when Hisar - U reaches the Stage of serial Production it must be marketet.

 

[cabatli_53]

SAGE PARM

 

[Oguzhan]

The arab States have no alternative to european, american, russian or chinese Systems, but when Hisar - U reaches the Stage of serial Production it must be marketet.

starting every project with "arabs will buy it" and they choose others,
some people really love arabs at all or just a part of them

 

[Babur Han]

starting every project with "arabs will buy it" and they choose others,
some people really love arabs at all or just a part of them

You must see it from a geostrategic Point of View, for example to strengthen the BoP in favor to the arab States against Israel. By our AD Systems IFF Codes are in our Hand and they can reconize Israel as their Enemys. This can weaken Israels Negotiation Position. This will be also our Advantage in the Question about the Gas Fields around Cyprus.

Another example is marketing Hisar A, O & U in the Maghreb Region, this will enable Interoperabillity with turkish Armed Forces. Marketing Hisar AD System, MLRS, Warships, Drones, AT Weapons etc. in this Region can be a Part of an Anti Access/Area Denial Strategy against former european Colonial/Protectorate Powers.

 

[theman111]

arabs buy the best they can get turkey is new in the export market and yet have good reputaion of equipment so you need time

You must see it from a geostrategic Point of View, for example to strengthen the BoP in favor to the arab States against Israel. By our AD Systems IFF Codes are in our Hand and they can reconize Israel as their Enemys. This can weaken Israels Negotiation Position. This will be also our Advantage in the Question about the Gas Fields around Cyprus.

Another example is marketing Hisar A, O & U in the Maghreb Region, this will enable Interoperabillity with turkish Armed Forces. Marketing Hisar AD System, MLRS, Warships, Drones, AT Weapons etc. in this Region can be a Part of an Anti Access/Area Denial Strategy against former european Colonial/Protectorate Powers.

lol what arab is our enemy ? that have enauhgh money to buy?

 

[Babur Han]

I don't speak about Enemy, I speaking about changing the BoP ! The arabian Gulf States could by the mentioned Systems, we can underdone effort to market the Systems in the Maghreb Region.

 

[Oguzhan]

I don't speak about Enemy, I speaking about changing the BoP ! The arabian Gulf States could by the mentioned Systems, we can underdone effort to market the Systems in the Maghreb Region.

Bullshit, absolutely bullshit, we can never sell theese guys anything but small arms,
They do their purchase politically from european states or USA, we should care our own needs

They promote a possible arab region sell because all the money comes from arabs
For example, bmc is turkish blablabla, but the money comes from qatar,thats why they buy those products,so basically, we sell but earn nothing

 

[Arabic_Ottoman]

Bullshit, absolutely bullshit, we can never sell theese guys anything but small arms,
They do their purchase politically from european states or USA, we should care our own needs

They promote a possible arab region sell because all the money comes from arabs
For example, bmc is turkish blablabla, but the money comes from qatar,thats why they buy those products,so basically, we sell but earn nothing

What are you mumbling about?

The U.S by far offers the most advanced and most reliable weapons and defense equipment's. Gulf states decided from
day one to use western weapons in all sectors predominantly (there's of course a few eastern equipment's).
You just can't in a few nights or days to see your indigenous parts to be used heavily in all countries. the defense market is difficult and requires effort and patience (and good marketing). the Turkish defense industry made big jumps in the recent years, and we started to see for example armored vehicles to be significantly used in gulf and other international regions.

 

[Oguzhan]

What are you mumbling about?

The U.S by far offers the most advanced and most reliable weapons and defense equipment's. Gulf states decided from
day one to use western weapons in all sectors predominantly (there's of course a few eastern equipment's).
You just can't in a few nights or days to see your indigenous parts to be used heavily in all countries. the defense market is difficult and requires effort and patience (and good marketing). the Turkish defense industry made big jumps in the recent years, and we started to see for example armored vehicles to be significantly used in gulf and other international regions.

Telling it yourself
So why are you masturbating about selling anything you produce to arabs,We wont be able to sell anything to them in short or mid term,It is crystal clear,

 

[Inspector Spacetime]

Bullshit, absolutely bullshit, we can never sell theese guys nything but small arms,
They do their purchase politically from european states or USA, we should care our own needs

They promote a possible arab region sell because all the money comes from arabs
For example, bmc is Turkish blablabla, but the money comes from qatar,thats why they buy those products,so basically, we sell but earn nothing

BMC is Turkey's GDP (Gross Domestic Product) and partially (they own about 50% if I remember correctly) Qatar's GNP (Gross National Product). Investors of a company only take their fair share of the overall profit the company makes. All other spending like employee wages goes to where the employees are situated and taxes go to the country where the company operates etc. Even if BMC was 100% owned by a foreign investor, the country in which the company operates reaps the biggest reward. And if Qatar owning the company helps with selling to Arabic states, than that is to the benefit of BMC and in extention, in this case, Turkey.

This owned by x or y country thing needs to stop, imo. Sermaye dusmanligi yapmanin hic anlami yok bence, cunku dis ulkelerden sermaye cekmek bir ulke icin cok onemli, Turkiye gibi cari acik olan ulker icin daha da onemli. Mesela Turkiyede x sirket, y ulkeden bir firmaya satiliyorsa, Turkiye icin bir kayip olmuyor. Cunku bu satilan x sirketi daha hala Turkiye'de faliyet gosteriyor ve ulkemizin GDP'sine yariyor. X sirketin satilisindan gelen sermaye'de baska yatirimlara kayiyor. Bu da FDI (Foreign Direct Investment) oluyor, FDI'nin baska cesiti ise y ulkeden bir sirket sifirdan, ya da bir Turk sirketiyle ortak calisarak, Turkiye'ye fabrika acmasi oluyor. FDI cogunlukla firma satislariyla, x% ya da 100% hisse satim almasiyla oluyor, cunku bu yontem bir sirket icin bir ulkenin pazarina girmenin en cabuk ve kolay yontemlerinden biri.

 

[what]

I want to add to @Inspector Spacetime's post, that they only get money if the company decides to pay out dividend.

My issue is not about the profits, but the lost control to a foreign company. The sale to Qatar was probably politicaly motivated.

 

[Oguzhan]

BMC is Turkey's GDP (Gross Domestic Product) and partially (they own about 50% if I remember correctly) Qatar's GNP (Gross National Product). Investors of a company only take their fair share of the overall profit the company makes. All other spending like employee wages goes to where the employees are situated and taxes go to the country where the company operates etc. Even if BMC was 100% owned by a foreign investor, the country in which the company operates reaps the biggest reward. And if Qatar owning the company helps with selling to Arabic states, than that is to the benefit of BMC and in extention, in this case, Turkey.

This owned by x or y country thing needs to stop, imo. Sermaye dusmanligi yapmanin hic anlami yok bence, cunku dis ulkelerden sermaye cekmek bir ulke icin cok onemli, Turkiye gibi cari acik olan ulker icin daha da onemli. Mesela Turkiyede x sirket, y ulkeden bir firmaya satiliyorsa, Turkiye icin bir kayip olmuyor. Cunku bu satilan x sirketi daha hala Turkiye'de faliyet gosteriyor ve ulkemizin GDP'sine yariyor. X sirketin satilisindan gelen sermaye'de baska yatirimlara kayiyor. Bu da FDI (Foreign Direct Investment) oluyor, FDI'nin baska cesiti ise y ulkeden bir sirket sifirdan, ya da bir Turk sirketiyle ortak calisarak, Turkiye'ye fabrika acmasi oluyor. FDI cogunlukla firma satislariyla, x% ya da 100% hisse satim almasiyla oluyor, cunku bu yontem bir sirket icin bir ulkenin pazarina girmenin en cabuk ve kolay yontemlerinden biri.

Türkçe yazayım, bizim sorunlarımızdan biri olayı kişiselleştirip tek perspektiften bakmak,Bmc de katar sermayesi olması sizce katarın bu ürünü seçmesinde etki etti mi, evet, neden,çünkü üretilen maldan edilen kar kendisine dönüyor,ayrıca üründeki zırh çeliği ülkede hangi tesiste yapılıyor merak ediyorum,benim bildiğim gövdeler ithal ürün,yanılıyor olabilirim
İkinci durum ise şu ki, pakistanın jf17 ürününe baktığımızda über bir pak ürünü diyemiyoruz, resmen çin malının pakistan üretimi,belki bizim f16 için oluşturduğumuz assembly linedan bile az katkı yaptıkları bir ürün, onlar da bmc hakkında bu kadar sert olmasa da böyle düşünüyorlardır muhtemelen,
İşin diğer tarafı bu bmc yi sıvazlicaz, ülkeye gelen yatırımcıyı şişiricez diye diğer yatırımcı ve yerli sermayenin önüne taş koyuyoruz,altayın bmc ye verilme spekülasyonları bile tad kaçırıcı,
Evet yerli sermaye ülkeye gelmeli ama eskiden biçok alt kategoride birçok koldan gelirdi, ülkeyi bitek bmcnin ürettiği ürünler kurtarmıyor malesef,
Açıkçası politik düşünmüyorum bu konuda,ürün çıkaramayan bir bmc den,aktif bir bmc ye dönüştü şirket fakat bu olacak diye diğer sanayi kuruluşlarımızı bu duruma sokmaya gerek yok,
Ayrıca her ürünümüzü araplar alıcak diye adam keklemeye de gerek yok,almicaklar,almaları için sebep yok,Anca üretimine ortak oldukları şeylerden edinicekler ve bu adamlar petrol sonrası ekonomik politikalarında ülkemizdeki askeri sermayeye ortak olarak bir gelir kaynağı edinmeye çalışıyorlar,
Gördüğünüz gibi para veriyorlar ama hiçbir cacıktan anlamadıkları için motor veremiyorlar,Böle arap yalayıcısı olduğumuz süre de ilmi irfanı olan hiçbir ülke bizimle teknoloji paylaşmaz,
Arabistan bizim için bir pazardır,kesinlikle bir ortak değil

 

[HannibalBarca]

Türkçe yazayım, bizim sorunlarımızdan biri olayı kişiselleştirip tek perspektiften bakmak,Bmc de katar sermayesi olması sizce katarın bu ürünü seçmesinde etki etti mi, evet, neden,çünkü üretilen maldan edilen kar kendisine dönüyor,ayrıca üründeki zırh çeliği ülkede hangi tesiste yapılıyor merak ediyorum,benim bildiğim gövdeler ithal ürün,yanılıyor olabilirim
İkinci durum ise şu ki, pakistanın jf17 ürününe baktığımızda über bir pak ürünü diyemiyoruz, resmen çin malının pakistan üretimi,belki bizim f16 için oluşturduğumuz assembly linedan bile az katkı yaptıkları bir ürün, onlar da bmc hakkında bu kadar sert olmasa da böyle düşünüyorlardır muhtemelen,
İşin diğer tarafı bu bmc yi sıvazlicaz, ülkeye gelen yatırımcıyı şişiricez diye diğer yatırımcı ve yerli sermayenin önüne taş koyuyoruz,altayın bmc ye verilme spekülasyonları bile tad kaçırıcı,
Evet yerli sermaye ülkeye gelmeli ama eskiden biçok alt kategoride birçok koldan gelirdi, ülkeyi bitek bmcnin ürettiği ürünler kurtarmıyor malesef,
Açıkçası politik düşünmüyorum bu konuda,ürün çıkaramayan bir bmc den,aktif bir bmc ye dönüştü şirket fakat bu olacak diye diğer sanayi kuruluşlarımızı bu duruma sokmaya gerek yok,
Ayrıca her ürünümüzü araplar alıcak diye adam keklemeye de gerek yok,almicaklar,almaları için sebep yok,Anca üretimine ortak oldukları şeylerden edinicekler ve bu adamlar petrol sonrası ekonomik politikalarında ülkemizdeki askeri sermayeye ortak olarak bir gelir kaynağı edinmeye çalışıyorlar,
Gördüğünüz gibi para veriyorlar ama hiçbir cacıktan anlamadıkları için motor veremiyorlar,Böle arap yalayıcısı olduğumuz süre de ilmi irfanı olan hiçbir ülke bizimle teknoloji paylaşmaz,
Arabistan bizim için bir pazardır,kesinlikle bir ortak değil

Then if you think turkey do not sell in Arabs countries, well then you out of Date, see Aselsan joint ventures with Saudi Arabia, see The north africans sells . And Turkey defense industry is not well developed in the key areas, like in missiles ( cruise, ballistic and such), radars, Aviation, and as for naval, well turkey sells a good share with Saudi /Qatar and UAE. In the end, Turkey has limited choice, vehicules, few missiles , boats and guns. Those countries and around them need more than that, radars, long range, stuff, tanks, MALE uav etc.. . Turkey got few interesting project in the coming years, with "key" equipment in final stage, at that moment you will see a boom in selling to arabs countries ( Anka, altay, atak , sam and such). your industry has just made their first steps.... that's why they don't buy a lot... for now