Turkey's incoming military chief warns government he will uphold secularism

[BATMAN]

What the hell!
Is President not supreme in Turkey? who emanate his power from vote of majority?
Can Turkish President not sack him?

 

[DaRk WaVe]

This is your individual point of view. If you do a bit research, Islam provides a complete code of life as well as guidelines for running state affairs and economics also.Secular model can work where people are of different backgrounds but in Muslim countries this model wont work.

so you are saying that Turkey has not got a Muslim population, Pakistanis have a unique Secularism phobia, Can't you people see that Secularism has made Turkey a progressive state, not a rag tag Third World Arab Monarch or a miserable Pakistan...

The Difference b/w Muslim countries where State & religion are one entity & Secular countries is pretty evident...

 

[DaRk WaVe]

So Ataturk was a british agent

Actually you missed the point, He was a Free Mason

 

[Jigs]

The problem isn't specifically Islamic parties. It is when they (any party) try to push an agenda that doesn't compute with what Turkey is. Turkey is not in need of a government/constitutional reform. It is and has always been a Secular state since its formation. That entitles certain principles that shouldn't be touched. And when the AKP comes in and pushes their "democracy" ideas with heavy Islamic undertone they cross the line. A line previously kept in a checked and balanced state by the Military.

I am never against non secular parties in Turkey as long as they keep within the lines. AKP is currently going on a complete country reform plan that is damaging Turkey. They have so far tried to make political parties harder to ban (so they can remain in power) Have military members tried in civilian courts (since they have more influence there) Also do a complete overhaul of Judiciary system which includes and i quote

The HSYK comprises of five judges, plus the justice minister and his undersecretary. The government wants to expand it to 21 members, who would be chosen by the president, the Constitutional Court, Supreme Court of Appeals, another superior court called the State Council, and the Turkish Justice Academy.

Here is what they are trying to do for the Constitutional Court

The government also wants to overhaul the Constitutional Court, charged with upholding Turkey's secular constitution, by allowing the president and parliament to pick all their members.

* There are currently 11 sitting members and four substitutes. The president now chooses three members directly, appointing the rest from candidates nominated by civilian and military high courts and the Higher Education Board. Under proposed changes, the bench would be increased to 17, with parliament choosing three members and the president choosing 14.

Anyone with half a brain can quickly see that they are pushing for majority control of the court systems while making it look "democratic".

 

[Gin ka Pakistan]

If EU accepts Turkey as it member then secularism is must

 

[Jigs]

What the hell!
Is President not supreme in Turkey? who emanate his power from vote of majority?
Can Turkish President not sack him?

Why on earth would that happen.

Supreme Military Council handles these affairs(Which are being snubbed by AKP). Since they don't have anything to do with the current political party. Tell me what happens when the President throws out the general and installs his own puppet that pushes that party's political and religious ideology ?

Do you know how weak that makes a country when any political party that comes in has enough holes to quickly reshape the country to their ideology. It turns into a party dictatorship with the illusion of democracy.

 

[Patriot]

Do you know how weak that makes a country when any political party that comes in has enough holes to quickly reshape the country to their ideology. It turns into a party dictatorship with the illusion of democracy.

It once happened in Pakistan.Our Prime Minister fired Army Chief and replaced him with his favorite general .Guess what few hours later Prime Minister and his favorite General was in jail!The old COAS (who was fired for 4 horus) Pervez Musharraf took over the government. .Military in Pakistan and Turkey is too much powerful.Politicians should not play with the Military structure.

 

[Cerian]

So it all come to the judiciary appoints by a president.. Well, that's what western countries does. Difference with Turkey though, with this new package, which is gonna be voted in a referendum by 12th September, is that all the appointments done by parliament and by President itself will be chosen from candidates of respective judiciary organizations. These candidates are chosen by members of organizations by democratic means. Which tells us, judiciary is the key in the decision making, whereas appointments to these judicial institutes are a mere example of checking each separated powers of government branches with themselves.

 

[Nahraf]

Can't you people see that Secularism has made Turkey a progressive state, not a rag tag Third World Arab Monarch or a miserable Pakistan..

Pakistan was created as a Muslims country with sacrifice of hundred of thousands of Muslims. Turkey was formed from the ashes of Ottoman empire and saved from the occupation by European colonial powers, Greek and Armenian Irredentists. Ataturk had to modernise as Turkey was the only Muslim country that was not colonised. Pakistan is and shall remain as a Islamic republic.

 

[Patriot]

Pakistan was created as a Muslims country with sacrifice of hundred of thousands of Muslims. Turkey was formed from the ashes of Ottoman empire and saved from the occupation by European colonial powers, Greek and Armenian irredentists. Pakistan is and shall remain as Islamic republic.

Honestly it's all BS.99% Population of Pakistan is Muslim so that is literally no brainer.Even i used to believe in this secular theory for Pakistan but we don't really need it as we dont have any other major population of other religion.What however we do need is modernization in the villages and far off areas.We need to move towards centrism from conservatism.

 

[Nahraf]

Honestly it's all BS.99% Population of Pakistan is Muslim so that is literally no brainer.Even i used to believe in this secular theory for Pakistan but we don't really need it as we dont have any other major population of other religion.What however we do need is to modernization.We need to move towards centrism from conservatism.

Agreed. We have to follow Turkey's example and create Imam-Khatip schools to train Imams of the mosques. Both Shia and Sunni Masjids be built by the government and their Imams paid by the state. The current Madrassah are producing extremist Imams driven Wahabi ideology. We have to nationalize all Masjids and make Imams civil servants.

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

T.C. is proof that a Muslim country can be secular; where people have a CHOICE on what to believe, who to believe, when to believe.

It works out quite well. I lived there and can tell you firsthand.


Pakistan can never be secular the way Turkiye is. But there are some principles which we can adopt; that would include limiting the power of the religious establishment, and some other measures. Islam is an important part of Pakistan and its existence, however we need to ensure that minorities are protected and that the laws are better enforced. That has more to do with effective governence, which we lack under this incompetent excuse for an administration



I salute Gen. Basbug. He is/was always a friend of Pakistan, as all Turkish peoples are. I wish best of luck to his succesor.


may Pakistan and Turkiye's time tested friendship continue to prosper. And may we continue to learn from eachothers experiences. Turkiye itself has suffered a vicious campaign of terrorism, politically motivated target killings, political uncertainty and economic problems. Through the right leadership, they got their acts together.

I see a good future for our nations. Our founding fathers envisioned similar goals for our relatively young and developing countries--all it takes is good leadership that can deliver.





Turk arkadaslarimiz'a: bizim cok dusmanlarimiz vardir.....aslinda birlik ve ''kankaligimizi'' cok onemli. Ne mutlu Turkum/Pakistanliyim diyene.

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

Agreed. We have to follow Turkey's example and create Imam-Khatip schools to train Imams of the mosques. Both Shia and Sunni Masjids be built by the government and their Imams paid by the state. The current Madrassah are producing extremist Imams driven Wahabi ideology. We have to nationalize all Masjids and make Imams civil servants.

ABSOLUTELY......

 

[Agnostic_Indian]

This is your individual point of view. If you do a bit research, Islam provides a complete code of life as well as guidelines for running state affairs and economics also.Secular model can work where people are of different backgrounds but in Muslim countries this model wont work.

Islam may have provided it and a hindu or christian can easily make a constitution based on their holy books..would you as a muslim prefer to be part of such a state like a second class citizen...on mercy of another religion law and label ? i will not prefer that .i know next thing you going to say is islam allows religious freedom to all religions but why should i depend on islams mercy or allowance when my religion is different ? Why should i obey a law written in your religious book ? I am not a less citizen.This is where balance of mind has to work when you make a law for state you have to consider all its subjects..SECULARism where state treats all religions just and fair.

 

[laiqs@mi]

Originally Posted by Tshering22
Something worth learning from Turkey that it is essential for Armed forces sometimes to intervene in a democracy. Well done to Turks for transforming a dying theocratic empire into a modern world progressive democracy.
You must be belonging to "Girgat Family"
For Pakistan No miletary invasion and for turkey Armed forces invasion is good