Turkey's incoming military chief warns government he will uphold secularism

[Jigs]

^^^^It is a simple checks and balance system. The AKP are effectively destroying that though.

If these constitutional reforms pass the military will pretty much be shutdown. AKP will have full power over the court systems to do as they plz with military members that try to uphold secularism.

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

Islamic revolution is now arising in Turkey brother...
Turkish army can't face it and ultimately they will surrender through a civil war or by choice..

I think you should self-delete this post.

It's an unlikely scenario because all Turkish people are required to do mandatory military service. Military is highly respected institution in Turkiye. Civil war is beyond imagination.



the same right-wingers and fundamentalists here who are criticizing a great leader like Ataturk are also probably saying the same thing about Quaid e Azam and his vision for Pakistan.

pretty sad if you ask me

 

[Al-zakir]

And this is wrong ? Secularism has a pretty clear definition that so far no Muslim majority country besides Turkey has achieved(some don't even want to) . Once Erdogan and AKP are gone things will go right back to normal. I don't understand how people are against this. How is it bad that Turkey doesn't involve the supernatural in our policy making ?

Fair enough though I would like to know, why ultra secular Turkey still part of OIC? Turkey should no affiliate it self with Islamic world if it wants to become part of European union.

If secularism mean freedom for all region then why secular Turkey placed banned on Islamic head scraps in university and government office? Shouldn't a religious women be allow to earn higher degree?

America is mother of all secularism yet Muslims women are free to wear hijab in work places and higher education institute.

Don't get me wrong but I think Turkey style secularism evolved from anti religion and anti God concepts.

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

Fair enough though I would like to know, why ultra secular Turkey still part of OIC? Turkey should no affiliate it self with Islamic world if it want become part of European union.

If secularism mean freedom for all region then why secular Turkey placed ban on Islamic head scraps in university and government office? Shouldn't a religious women be allow to earn higher degree?

America is mother of all secularism yet Muslims women are free to wear hijab in work places and higher education institute.

Don't get me wrong but I think Turkey style secularism evolved from anti religion and anti God concepts.

same way it works in Bangladesh, no?

 

[Al-zakir]

same way it works in Bangladesh, no?

No! Where have you heard this?? BD still Islamic.

 

[LegionnairE]

Fair enough though I would like to know, why ultra secular Turkey still part of OIC? Turkey should no affiliate it self with Islamic world if it want become part of European union.

If secularism mean freedom for all region then why secular Turkey placed ban on Islamic head scraps in university and government office? Shouldn't a religious women be allow to earn higher degree?

America is mother of all secularism yet Muslims women are free to wear hijab in work places and higher education institute.

Don't get me wrong but I think Turkey style secularism evolved from anti religion and anti God concepts.

This can be discussed, but in present time Turkish government universities are not in a condition that can tolerate religious symbols, well private universities have less students (at least under ten thousand per university) maybe they can but other than that allowing religious symbols in universities idea is not realistic for now

In islam studying is a kind of worship itself already people must go universities with or without hijabs...

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

Yes Bengali people are predominately Muslim...but isn't Bangladesh running under secular system as well?

My point is, I think a country can be officially secular while the people are free to choose what they want to do. If they are religious, fine. If they arent, fine.

religion comes naturally....it shouldnt be shoveled down one's throat, otherwise it loses its beauty. Islam is pure beauty. So let the people embrace it naturally. State (governments) job isnt to enforce religious beliefs; state's job is to run the affairs of the country

 

[Al-zakir]

Yes Bengali people are predominately Muslim...but isn't Bangladesh running under secular system as well?

My point is, I think a country can be officially secular while the people are free to choose what they want to do. If they are religious, fine. If they arent, fine.

Although Al portray itself a secular party but it has not able to change the constitution because it well aware of deadly consequences.

This can be discussed, but in present time Turkish government universities are not in a condition that can tolerate religious symbols, well private universities have less students (at least under ten thousand per university) maybe they can but other than that allowing religious symbols in universities idea is not realistic for now

In islam studying is a kind of worship itself already people must go universities with or without hijabs...

Hence Turkey is not secular as we know it. It is actually an anti secular because secularism allow religious practices.

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

okay now I'm REALLY confused.....are religious symbols allowed in Bangladesh schools/college/workplaces/etc.?

 

[LegionnairE]

State (governments) job isnt to enforce religious beliefs; state's job is to run the affairs of the country

Very nice thinking, but sadly the situation dont let it happen...

Government actually dont care if people are religious or not. When you look at this first time you actually can not understand it but hijab is also a politic symbol in Turkey. This is making things confusing.

Government employees shouldnt be inside of politics or else when AKP gets elected they fire all CHP supporters and hire their own guys and If CHP gets elected they do the vice versa

This is looking funny but sadly this is true...

 

[LegionnairE]

Hence Turkey is not secular as we know it. It is actually an anti secular because secularism allow religious practices.

I said it can be discussed, hijab ban in universities have no ties with secularism but the politics and the situation in universities have no tolerence to politics (I mentioned before in this thread if you can read some pages)

In Turkish government Universities are under rule of YÖK(means High Education Foundation) and its under rule of president itself this is how universities are important

 

[Al-zakir]

okay now I'm REALLY confused.....are religious symbols allowed in Bangladesh schools/college/workplaces/etc.?

Off course. It never been banned. Why are you confused about this?

 

[Al-zakir]

I said it can be discussed, hijab ban in universities have no ties with secularism but the politics and the situation in universities have no tolerence to politics (I mentioned before in this thread if you can read some pages)

Hijab should not be symbol of anti high education. My own sister wear hijab and she is on her way to become a doctor so are millions of Muslim women all over the world.

What I failed to understand is that why a supposedly 95% Muslim nation is so anti Islamic symbol?

By the way, many of our Turkish sister wear Hijab and attend in universities in USA.

 

[LegionnairE]

Hijab should not be symbol of anti high education. My own sister wear hijab and she is on her way to become a doctor so are millions of Muslim women all over the world.

My sister wear headscarf outside of school limits

What I failed to understand is that why a supposedly 95% Muslim nation is so anti Islamic symbol?

I repeat, Hijab also recognized as a politic symbol it does not have a politic use in basis but some people have maliciously used it as a politic symbol whatever this ban is a remain of the rebellion before 1980 coup, it was an extreme situation...

Perhaps I've failed to explain to you Why politic symbols are not allowed in government buildings

By the way, many of our Turkish sister wear Hijab and attend in universities in USA.

I know, a peaceful way for them...

 

[Jigs]

Fair enough though I would like to know, why ultra secular Turkey still part of OIC? Turkey should no affiliate it self with Islamic world if it want become part of European union.

AKP is currently running turkey on a Islamic agenda that would probably explain that.

If secularism mean freedom for all region then why secular Turkey placed ban on Islamic head scraps in university and government office? Shouldn't a religious women be allow to earn higher degree?

The buildings are part of the state no ? So secularism applies to them. If you want to go through the state system then it is up to you on how you want to proceed.

America is mother of all secularism yet Muslims women are free to wear hijab in work places and higher education institute.

Turkey's secularism is nothing like the U.S. way. That is something alot of people are confused about. Secularism in the U.S. is modified with tolerance(which is dieing out) . While Turkey does a pure form where you must conform to a secular stance if you are to be a part of a secular state system. You are not forced to but you must follow requirements.

Don't get me wrong but I think Turkey style secularism evolved from anti religion and anti God concepts.

It is simply having a strong secularist state. If the country was enforcing no religion on everyone that lived in that country that would be a large problem in fact it wouldn't be secular at that point. This is not the case as people are free to practice their religion just not in the secular atmosphere of state service buildings and such.