Turk-Russian Approach: Russia is ready to offer joint production of Su-57 fighters to Ankara

[Foxtrot Delta]

Its just one tit sir i.e. tit for tat.

i know

 

[beijingwalker]

then China is the biggest cow for Russia ( almost all China military technology comes from Soviet-Russian technology )

China is net arms exporter, we have comprehensive military industry capable of producing all weapons, nulcear or conventional, Turkey's defence is at mercy of either the west or Russia.

 

[MMM-E]

China is net arms exporter, we have comprehensive military industry capable of producing all weapons, nulcear or conventional, Turkey's defence is at mercy of either the west or Russia.

then why China still buys S400 , SU-35 and other weapons from Russia ?

and never forget that China's defence was at mercy of either the west or Russia .... so China copied Russian and western technologies in the last 30 years to become independent


Turkey also has developed its own weapons in the last 15 years and Turkey develops hundreds of military projects including Fighter Jets and engines to become independent but Turkey needs more 15 years

 

[beijingwalker]

then why China still buys S400 , SU-35 and other weapons from Russia ?

and never forget that China's defence was at mercy of either the west or Russia .... so China copied Russian and western technologies in the last 30 years to become independent

We bought them for research, that's why we never bought in bulk, just a few of them. Our defence is at mercy of the west and Russia? They had military blocade on China for half a century and we had wars with both of them , we made our atomic bomb in 1964 when both Russia and US were China's enemies. Now China has money and all supporting industries for the defence industry and even US and Nato become losing their sleeps over China's neck breaking military development, we are not in the same league, you have no sufficient funds, supporting industries and all other resources to compete with China, better learn to know your place in the world.

 

[LKJ86]

then why China still buys S400 , SU-35 and other weapons from Russia ?

You should know that if China doesn't buy them, it is also OK. That is the difference between China and Turkey.

 

[MMM-E]

We bought them for research, that's why we never bought in bulk, just a few of them. Our defence is at mercy of the west and Russia? They had military blocade on China for half a century and we had wars with both of them , we made our atomic bomb in 1964 when both Russia and US were China's enemies. Now China has money and all supporting industries for the defence industry and even US and Nato become losing their sleeps over China's neck breaking military development, we are not in the same league, you have no sufficient funds, supporting industries and all other resources to compete with China, better learn to know your place in the world.

35 years ago China was so poor and backward country

and China always bought weapons from Russians and Ukranians to copy them ( Aircrafts,Fighter Jets,Helicopters,Anti ship Missiles , Air Defense Systems , MLRS , Warships and even Aircraft Carrier )

-- even Russia designed , developed ,produced and gave Z-10 Attack Helicopter to China
-- China bought Sikorsky S-76D Helicopter and copied it
-- Israel gave American radar,electro-optics and air to air missile , aircraft technologies to China
-- Ukraine sold long range Cruise Missile to both China and Iran .. and Chiana-Iran copied Soviet long range Cruise Missile technology
-- France,Ukraine,Russia helped China to develop gas turbine engine
-- even China hacked F-35 infos from Australia and copied F-35

and to develop nuclear weapon easier than to develop Fighter Jet and gas turbine engine

Turkey can develop nuclear weapon in a year but Turkey has signed treaty on the non proliferation of Nuclear Weapons


We dont care about China or anybody ....... We have our own plan to become independent country in military industry in the next 15 years . therefore Turkey develops 600+ military projects for over $60 billion

 

[zzzz]

This would be amusing, really.

For starters:-

PAK-FA = Su-57

And watch this video:-

Conventional comparisons are meaningless.

F-22A and F-35 variants are completely different class of birds in comparison to Russian 4.5th generation Su-57.

SU-57 is as VLO as F-35. Stop spamming your BS fantasy figures pulled out of someone *** and spouting nonsense here.
Except for stealth F-35 doesnt meet any 5th gen requirement (SU-57 meets all) and can be considered as true 4.5gen jet like Rafale.

Reality check:

 

[CAN_TR]

Without the Saturn Izdeliye 30 Engine the SU-57 in uninteresting.

 

[Mav3rick]

I think its time Turkey considered a Nuclear path too.

 

[LeGenD]

SU-57 is as VLO as F-35. Stop spamming your BS fantasy figures pulled out of someone *** and spouting nonsense here.
Except for stealth F-35 doesnt meet any 5th gen requirement (SU-57 meets all) and can be considered as true 4.5gen jet like Rafale.

Reality check:

Baseless argument and bullshit analysis.

Patent of PAK-FA: http://195.208.85.248/Archive/PAT/2012FULL/2012.01.27/DOC/RUNWC1/000/000/002/440/916/document.pdf

Since the start, objective of Sukhoi was to bring the RCS of Su-57 down to 0.1 - 1.0 m^2 levels; perfectly match the figure in the table I have shared in my earlier post (Chinese source). For Sukhoi, this is quiet an achievement.

You cannot expect Toyota to develop a Ferrari for you, mind you. Airframe research (and designing) is very complex work, and very costly as well. Otherwise, Russia would have developed a perfect clone of F-22A Raptor a long time ago.

 

[zzzz]

Baseless argument and bullshit analysis.

Patent of PAK-FA: http://195.208.85.248/Archive/PAT/2012FULL/2012.01.27/DOC/RUNWC1/000/000/002/440/916/document.pdf

Since the start, objective of Sukhoi was to bring the RCS of Su-57 down to 0.1 - 1.0 square metre range. Perfectly match the figure in the table I have shared in my earlier post (Chinese source).

Sure. Alexander Davidenko, chief designer of the Su-57, compared the RCS of PAK FA and F-22: "The F-22 aircraft has RCS of 0.3-0.4 m². We have similar requirements for visibility."

Russia doesnt need clone of F-22. SU-57 is superior to F-22 in aerodynamics and all aspects except for stealth.

 

[LeGenD]

Sure. Alexander Davidenko, chief designer of the Su-57, compared the RCS of PAK FA and F-22: "The F-22 aircraft has RCS of 0.3-0.4 m². We have similar requirements for visibility."

Yeah, I am sure he was given access to F-22A Raptor beforehand.

Su-57 and F-22A Raptor do not have much in common even on the surface, so how come they have comparable RCS figures? Do Russians take entire world for a fool or something?

The designer was most likely JOKING (sense of humor), and people fell for it.

 

[MMM-E]

Sensors

F-35A : AESA Radar
SU-57 : AESA Radar + IRST


Super cruise

F-35A : No
SU-57 : Yes


Thurst vectoring control ( TVC )

F-35A : No
SU-57 : Yes


Maneuverability

F-35A : Low
SU-57 : Very high



Payload

F-35A : 4 air to air missiles
SU-57 : 8 air to air missiles



Max altitude

F-35A : 15 km
SU-57 : 20 km



Max speed

F-35A : mach 1,6
SU-57 : mach 2



Range

F-35A : 2200 km
SU-57 : 3500 km


SU-57's 3D thrust vector jets ...... ( a design which the US does not have )

with new IZLEDIYE-30 engine with 3D thrust vectoring nozzles , SU-57 will be great war machine ( but the engine will be ready in 2025 )

and Turkish design cockpit , electronics , mission computer , IFF system , self protection electronic warfare suite , national data link , network centric warfare and weapons can make SU-57 more dangerous

 

[zzzz]

Yeah, I am sure he was given access to F-22A Raptor beforehand.

Su-57 and F-22A Raptor do not have much in common even on the surface, so how come they have comparable RCS figures? Do Russians take entire world for a fool or something?

The designer was most likely JOKING (sense of humor), and people fell for it.

He doesnt need any access. Sukhoi just created 3d models of F-22 and PAK FA airframes, then calculated and compared their RCS. SU-57 and F-22 actually have a lot in common in frontal and side aspects and there is nothing strange if SU-57 have lower RCS than F-22 from some of angles.

 

[Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen]

Su-57 comes into the category of F-22 not F-35 and to be honest I consider Su-57 better than F-22 in many aspects. The only place Su-57 lacks is avionics and data link and that is where Turkey comes in. Russia needs Turkey more than Turkey needs F-35. Will make a detail analysis on Su-57 shortly and tag you we will discuss it.

Are you serious? Su-57 is the only fighter jet in the world that's got AESA in the front, on the left, on the right, in the back. Okay, name me 1 other plane that's got 4 AESA. Seriously. Su-57 is a beast when it comes to avionics.

Sure. Alexander Davidenko, chief designer of the Su-57, compared the RCS of PAK FA and F-22: "The F-22 aircraft has RCS of 0.3-0.4 m². We have similar requirements for visibility."

Russia doesnt need clone of F-22. SU-57 is superior to F-22 in aerodynamics and all aspects except for stealth.

F-22 has about the same RCS as F-15. You cannot expect 40,000 pounds of metal to have the RCS of a fly. Physics don't work that way. Maybe in a parallel universe, but not in this universe.

Yeah, I am sure he was given access to F-22A Raptor beforehand.

Su-57 and F-22A Raptor do not have much in common even on the surface, so how come they have comparable RCS figures? Do Russians take entire world for a fool or something?

The designer was most likely JOKING (sense of humor), and people fell for it.

Prove F-22 has RCS of a fly. Where your proof? LM's CEO's mouth? Is that it?