today / 331 before Christ was the battle of Gaugamela
- Thread starter ValerioAurelius
- Start date
ValerioAurelius
BANNED
- Joined
- Feb 11, 2017
- Messages
- 1,306
- Reaction score
- -4
- Country
- Location
She did not give away egypt. She tried her best to secure egypts future. Look at her time and how quick evrything changed. She did her best but failed in the end. Dont judge her to harsh. In a way she was sucessful.
Rome saw Egypt as very important in a spiritual way. Our emperors showed highest respect to Egypt and you know that.
Shapur Zol Aktaf
SENIOR MEMBER
- Joined
- Feb 10, 2013
- Messages
- 3,711
- Reaction score
- -6
- Country
- Location
No, the Etruscans lived in Italy, later proto-Italic peoples came to Italy. What you're saying is like Germanic people in USA claiming native American descent and history.
The Italics were all the peoples who spoke an idiom belonging to the Italic branch of the Indo-European languages and had settled in the Italian peninsula. The first Italic tribes, the Latino-Falisci (or "Latino-Veneti", if the membership of the ancient Veneti is also accepted), entered Italy across the eastern Alpine passes into the plain of the Po River about 1200 BC. Later, they crossed the Apennine Mountains and eventually occupied the region of Latium, which included the area of Rome. Before 1000 BC, the Osco-Umbrians followed, which later divided into various groups and gradually moved to central and southern Italy.
Greeks were also their own independent Branch of people, they might have mixed with Italic people, but that does not make them relatives.
About you are going to use second grade source, leftovers from others to scrap your old religion together. In this way we can say we have kept all religions intact because there are always people writing about a religion. Even while Etruscan were not related to proto-Italians, whom later by Romans copied elements from etruscan religion, we can still say that there is no etruscan religion left.
The religious texts recording the revelations of Tages (and a few other prophets, mainly a female figure known as Vegoia) were called by the Romans the Etrusca Disciplina at least as early as the late republic. They were written in the Etruscan language, despite their Latin titles. None presently survive.
By the way in case of your "religion" it was entirely mix of different religions (greek, etruscan etc) and even religion from far places:
By the height of the Empire, numerous international deities were cultivated at Rome and had been carried to even the most remote provinces, among them Cybele, Isis, Epona, and gods of solar monism such as Mithras and Sol Invictus, found as far north as Roman Britain. Foreign religions increasingly attracted devotees among Romans, who increasingly had ancestry from elsewhere in the Empire. Imported mystery religions, which offered initiates salvation in the afterlife, were a matter of personal choice for an individual, practiced in addition to carrying on one's family rites and participating in public religion.
About blacks, north africans and arabs in Italy, you are spreading lies:
The present-day figure of about 5 million foreign residents, that make up some 9% of the total population, include 97,000 children born in Italy to foreign nationals (19% of total births in Italy) in 2014, but exclude foreign nationals who have subsequently acquired Italian nationality; this applied to 106,000 people in 2014.
These are old numbers:
North African 646,624
Sub-Saharan Africa 324,917
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_to_Italy
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arabs_in_Italy
And your armies can not go further than Italy and mediteranean because you lost the Roman strength which you had, you can not project power anymore, not because you don't want to, but you can't.
Fast majority of people can see us as they like, we don't care pinokkio.
Egyptians and Arabs were 2 different peoples, no such a thing existed as "Egyptian Arabs"(invention by failed nasserism). It sounds ridicolous as "Japanese Chinese", totally 2 different nations.
ValerioAurelius
BANNED
- Joined
- Feb 11, 2017
- Messages
- 1,306
- Reaction score
- -4
- Country
- Location
Our army is in libya and afghanistan. Dont know actually what you try with the rest of your post
Shapur Zol Aktaf
SENIOR MEMBER
- Joined
- Feb 10, 2013
- Messages
- 3,711
- Reaction score
- -6
- Country
- Location
That's not your army, it's puppet slave army of Germanic USA serving there because USA destroys and after that sends it puppets there to clean the mess. We don't see Italy as independent like how China, Russia, Iran are independent from what USA wants or orders.
Rest of the post answered your lies about population of arabs, north africans and blacks in your country and "your" old religion and that Italians are relatives of greeks (which also is not true).
ValerioAurelius
BANNED
- Joined
- Feb 11, 2017
- Messages
- 1,306
- Reaction score
- -4
- Country
- Location
Of course we are relatives. We are mixed. Etrucans and Greeks. As for arabs and blacks, they are less than Iran has. Even your high numbers would be below 1%. Iran got arabized and has millions of arabs. I dont see Iran as independend as we are. We are free, iran is not.
EgyptianAmerican
FULL MEMBER
- Joined
- Aug 15, 2016
- Messages
- 1,829
- Reaction score
- 5
- Country
- Location
ValerioAurelius
BANNED
- Joined
- Feb 11, 2017
- Messages
- 1,306
- Reaction score
- -4
- Country
- Location
Your DNA has almost zero arab haplo groups.
EgyptianAmerican
FULL MEMBER
- Joined
- Aug 15, 2016
- Messages
- 1,829
- Reaction score
- 5
- Country
- Location
Yeah, that's wrong, please do some more research.
ValerioAurelius
BANNED
- Joined
- Feb 11, 2017
- Messages
- 1,306
- Reaction score
- -4
- Country
- Location
I did. Pharaoh Ramesses had zero arab DNA. Pharaoh Amenophis II and III also no arab DNA. You say the greatest egyptians were not egyptian?
lol, your history knowledge is screwed up big time. Neither Iran is considered as arab nor Christianity was born in europe to claim it as yours.
ValerioAurelius
BANNED
- Joined
- Feb 11, 2017
- Messages
- 1,306
- Reaction score
- -4
- Country
- Location
Where was roman catholic church born?
EgyptianAmerican
FULL MEMBER
- Joined
- Aug 15, 2016
- Messages
- 1,829
- Reaction score
- 5
- Country
- Location
Yeah no.
Pharaohs Ramses the 3rd and his son were found with the Benin haplotype.
“The Benin haplotype was found in patients with severe disease, either as homozygous or in combination with another haplotype. The majority of Syrians and Jordanians had the Benin haplotype and severe disease. However, one in three Syrians and one in five Jordanians had a milder disease, and the Saudi-Indian haplotype was identified.” – el-Hazmi et. al. 1999, Haplotypes of the beta-globin gene as prognostic factors in sickle-cell disease
EGYPTIAN MUMMY DNA STUDY SUGGESTS CLOSE TIES WITH MIDDLE EAST, EUROPE
http://www.newsweek.com/egyptian-mummy-dna-study-suggests-close-ties-middle-east-europe-617767
Mummy DNA unravels ancient Egyptians’ ancestry
Genetic analysis reveals a close relationship with Middle Easterners, not central Africans.
https://www.nature.com/news/mummy-dna-unravels-ancient-egyptians-ancestry-1.22069
What the researchers found is that the ancient Egyptian were genetically less Subsaharan than modern Egyptians. Nuclear Ancient Egyptian DNA is 6-15% Subsaharan, compared to 12%-21% in modern Egyptians. This increase in Subsaharan ancestry appears to have occurred in the last 2000 years or so.
The study itself suggests that an accurate model for the genetics of modern Egyptians is one where the modern population is descended from the ancient one.
Y-Haplogroups:
Overall DNA/genome
Saudi Arabians and Egyptians are next to each other before anyone else.
Some results from your average Arabs (much larger samples too)
https://www.familytreedna.com/public/arabworlddnaproject/default.aspx?section=yresults
https://www.familytreedna.com/public/arabworlddnaproject/default.aspx?section=yresults
https://www.familytreedna.com/groups/arab-tribes/about/background
Saudi Arabians:
Paleoafrican: 0% South Asian: 0% West Asian: 27,9% Southeast Asian: 0% Sub-Saharan: 0% Atlantic-Baltic: 0% Red Sea: 34,6% East Asian: 0% Mediterranean: 37.5% Siberian: 0%
Egyptians:
Paleoafrican: 0,6% South Asian: 0% West Asian: 24,4% Southeast Asian: 0,2% Sub-Saharan: 12,2% Atlantic-Baltic: 1% Red Sea: 24% East Asian: 0% Mediterranean: 37.5% Siberian: 0%
The sample was 12 Egyptians and 20 Saudi Arabians. So not 100% accurate but as I wrote earlier and as every single DNA tests shows, Saudi Arabians and Egyptians cluster with each other very, very closely in every DNA test that I have seen whether public or private. As far as haplogroups the two largest haplogroups in both countries and all Arab countries are J and E.
As far as maternal haplogroups the same ones are found in both KSA/Arabia and Egypt and much of the Arab world.
Same story with Sham (Levant, Mesopotamia and wider North Africa)
Here is an National Geographic one:
https://genographic.nationalgeographic.com/reference-populations/
The latter unfortunately does not have data from KSA but they have from Kuwait and if you compare Kuwait with Egypt they are very, very similar.
"EGYPTIAN
This reference population is based on samples collected from native Egyptians. As ancient populations migrated from Africa, they passed first through southwest Asia. The 65% Mediterranean and 18% Southwest Asian components in Egypt are representative of that ancient migratory route, as well as later migrations from the Fertile Crescent in the Middle East with the spread of agriculture over the past 10,000 years, and migrations in the 7th century with the spread of Islam from the Arabian peninsula. The 14% sub-Saharan African indicates intermixing with African populations to the south."
"KUWAITI
This reference population is based on samples collected from native Kuwaitis and reflects the great genetic diversity of this region, as it was a crossroads for several migratory groups. As some ancient populations migrated from Africa, they passed first through Southwest Asia en route to the rest of Eurasia. Some populations stayed in the Middle East and southwestern Asia, over time developing unique genetic patterns. The 57% Mediterranean and 27% Southwest Asian components found in our reference Kuwaiti population reflect these ancient patterns. The 4% Northern European percentage is representative of some interaction with European populations, either via populations to the northwest or from migrations through the steppe zone to the northeast. The 2% Northeast Asian component likely arrived via the migrations of groups originating in that region, such as the Turks and Mongols. The Silk Road also may have served to disperse east Asian genetic patterns further to the west. Finally, the 8% sub-Saharan African component reflects the relatively close proximity of Kuwait to Africa, and may have been increased by the Arab slave trade during the 8th-19th centuries."
KSA would be even closer to Egypt due to simple geography and the very close ties between Hijaz (most populous region of KSA) and Egypt.
Genetic Evidence for the Expansion of Arabian Tribes into the Southern Levant and North Africa
"In a recent publication, Bosch et al. (2001) reported on Y-chromosome variation in populations from northwestern (NW) Africa and the Iberian peninsula. They observed a high degree of genetic homogeneity among the NW African Y chromosomes of Moroccan Arabs, Moroccan Berbers, and Saharawis, leading the authors to hypothesize that “the Arabization and Islamization of NW Africa, starting during the 7th century ad, … [were] cultural phenomena without extensive genetic replacement” (p. 1023). H71 (Eu10) was found to be the second-most-frequent haplogroup in that area. Following the hypothesis of Semino et al. (2000), the authors suggested that this haplogroup had spread out from the Middle East with the Neolithic wave of advance. Our recent findings (Nebel et al. 2000, 2001), however, suggest that the majority of Eu10 chromosomes in NW Africa are due to recent gene flow caused by the migration of Arabian tribes in the first millennium of the Common Era (ce).
In the sample of NW Africans (Bosch et al. 2001), 16 (9.1%) of the 176 Y chromosomes studied were of Eu10 (H71 on a haplogroup 9 background). Of these 16 chromosomes, 14 formed a compact microsatellite network: 7 individuals shared a single haplotype, and the haplotypes of the other 7 were one or two mutational steps removed. This low diversity may be indicative of a recent founder effect. Where did these chromosomes come from?
The highest frequency of Eu10 (30%–62.5%) has been observed so far in various Moslem Arab populations in the Middle East (Semino et al. 2000; Nebel et al. 2001). The most frequent Eu10 microsatellite haplotype in NW Africans is identical to a modal haplotype (DYS19-14, DYS388-17, DYS390-23, DYS391-11, DYS392-11, DYS393-12) of Moslem Arabs who live in a small area in the north of Israel, the Galilee (Nebel et al. 2000). This haplotype, which is present in the Galilee at 18.5%, was termed the modal haplotype of the Galilee (MH Galilee) (Nebel et al. 2000). Notably, it is absent from two distinct non-Arab Middle Eastern populations, Jews and Muslim Kurds, both of whom have significant Eu10 frequencies—18% and 12%, respectively (Nebel et al. 2001). Interestingly, this modal haplotype is also the most frequent haplotype (11 [∼41%] of 27 individuals) in the population from the town of Sena, in Yemen (Thomas et al. 2000). Its single-step neighbor is the most common haplotype of the Yemeni Hadramaut sample (5 [∼10%] of 49 chromosomes; Thomas et al. 2000). The presence of this particular modal haplotype at a significant frequency in three separate geographic locales (NW Africa, the Southern Levant, and Yemen) makes independent genetic-drift events unlikely.
It should be noted that the Yemeni samples (Thomas et al. 2000) were not typed for the binary markers (p12f2 and M172) that define Eu10. However, both Yemeni modal haplotypes are present on a haplogroup background compatible with Eu10. These haplotypes carry a DYS388 allele with a high number of repeats (i.e., 17). High repeat numbers of DYS388, ⩾15, were found to occur almost exclusively on Hg9, which comprises Eu9 and Eu10. Furthermore, in a sample of a six Middle Eastern populations, chromosomes with 17 repeats are frequent (40%) in Eu10 and rare (7%) in Eu9 (Nebel et al. 2001).
The term “Arab,” as well as the presence of Arabs in the Syrian desert and the Fertile Crescent, is first seen in the Assyrian sources from the 9th century bce (Eph'al 1984). Originally referring to nomads of central and northern Arabia, the term “Arabs” later came to include the sedentary population of the south, which had its own language and culture. The term thus covers two different stocks that became linguistically and culturally unified yet retained consciousness of their discrete origins (Grohmann et al. 1960; Rentz 1960; Caskel 1966, pp. 19–47; Goldziher 1967, pp. 45–97, 164–190; Beeston 1995; also see Peters 1999). Migrations of southern Arabian tribes northwards have been recorded mainly since the 3d century ce. These tribes settled in various places in central and northern Arabia, as well as in the Fertile Crescent, including areas that are now part of Israel (Dussaud 1955; Ricci 1984). The emergence of Islam in the 7th century ce furthered the unification of the Arabian tribal populations. This unified Arab-Islamic community engaged in a large movement of expansion, the Fertile Crescent and Egypt being the first areas to have been conquered. It is very difficult to trace the tribal composition of the Muslim armies, but it is known that tribes of Yemeni origin formed the bulk of those Muslim contingents that conquered Egypt in the middle of the 7th century ce. Egypt was the primary base for raids further west into the Maghrib. The conquest of North Africa was difficult and took a few decades to complete (Abun-Nasr 1987). The region was militarily and administratively attached to Egypt until the beginning of the 8th century ce. Arab tribes of northern origin entered North Africa as well, both as troops and as migrants. A major wave of migration of such tribes, the Banu Hilal and Banu Sulaym, occurred during the 11th century ce (Abun-Nasr 1987). Thus, the Arabs, both southern (Yemeni) and northern, added to the heterogeneous Maghribi ethnic melting pot.
Little is known of the origins of the indigenous population of the Maghrib, the Berbers, except that they have always been a composite people. After the 8th century ce, a process of Arabization affected the bulk of the Berbers, while the Arab-Islamic culture and population absorbed local elements as well. Under the unifying framework of Islam, on the one hand, and as a result of the Arab settlement, on the other, a fusion took place that resulted in a new ethnocultural entity all over the Maghrib. In addition, Berber tribes sometimes claimed Arab descent in order to enhance their prestige. For example, the Berber nomadic tribe of the western Sahara, the Lamtuna, claimed descent from one of the South Arabian eponyms, Himyar. One of the chiefs of this Berber tribe, Lamtuna, is sometimes referred to as Saharawi, meaning “one of the nomads” or “one who comes from the Sahara” (Ibn al-Athir 1898, p. 462; Ibn Khallikan 1972, pp. 113, 128–129; Lewicki 1986). In Arabic sources, however, the name Saharawi is seldom used and does not seem to refer to a specific genealogical group. In light of these historical data, it is not surprising to find, among the Berbers and contemporary Saharawis of northern Africa, Y chromosomes that may have been introduced by recurrent waves of invaders from the Arabian Peninsula.
These documented historical events, together with the finding of a particular Eu10 haplotype in Yemenis, Palestinians, and NW Africans, are suggestive of a recent common origin of these chromosomes. Remarkably, the only non-Arabs in whom this haplotype has been observed to date are the Berbers (Bosch et al. 2001). It appears that the Eu10 chromosome pool in NW Africa is derived not only from early Neolithic dispersions but also from recent expansions from the Arabian peninsula.
American Society of Human Genetics"
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC379148/
Also I was not aware of their being an "Arab" or "North African" genome considering the fact that all haplogroups predate all living ethnic groups by millennia and given that all ethnic groups are social constructs.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_J_(Y-DNA)
Basically across the entire Arab world (which shares a millennia long common Semitic and Afro-Asiatic history and ancestry that predates the Neolithic period and all existing ethnic groups in the Arab world) the same haplogroups are found. The only difference is their frequency but Arabs cluster with each other more than any other people on all genetic tests which is not strange given history.
Genetics
Haplogroup J and E1b1b are the most frequent Y-DNA haplogroups in the Arab world. E1b1b is the most frequent paternal clade among the populations in the western part of the Arab world (Maghreb, Nile Valley and Horn of Africa), whereas haplogroup J is the most frequent paternal clade toward the east (Arabian peninsula and Near East). Other less common haplogroups are R1a, R1b, G, I, L and T.[304][305][306][307][308][309][310][311][312][313][314][315][316]
.svg)
J-M267
.PNG)
J-M172
E-M215
Listed here are the human Y-chromosome DNA haplogroups in Arabian peninsula, Mashriq/Levant, Maghreb and Nile Valley.[317][318][319][320][321][322][323] Yemeni Arabs J(82.3%), E1b1b (12.9%) and E1b1a (3.2%).[324][325] Saudi Arabs J1 (58%), E1b1b(7.6%), E1b1a (7.6%), R1a (5.1%), T (5.1%), G (3.2%) and L (1.9%).[326][327] Emirati Arabs J (45.1%), E1b1b (11.6%), R1a (7.3%), E1b1a (5.5%), T(4.9%), R1b (4.3%) and L (3%).[324] Omani Arabs J (47.9%), E1b1b (15.7%), R1a (9.1%), T (8.3%), E1b1a (7.4%), R1b (1.7%), G (1.7%) and L (0.8%).[328] Qatari Arabs J (66.7%), R1a (6.9%), E1b1b (5.6%), E1b1a (2.8%), G (2.8%) and L (2.8%).[329][330] Lebanese Arabs J (45.2%), E1b1b (25.8%), R1a (9.7%), R1b (6.4%), G, I and I (3.2%), (3.2%), (3.2%).[331] Syrian Arabs J (58.3%),[332][333] E1b1b (12.0%), I(5.0%), R1a (10.0%) and R1b 15.0%.[331][333] Palestinian Arabs J (55.2%), E1b1b (20.3%), R1b (8.4%), I(6.3%), G (7%), R1a and T (1.4%), (1.4%).[334][335] Jordanian Arabs J (43.8%), E1b1b (26%), R1b (17.8%), G (4.1%), I (3.4%) and R1a (1.4%).[336] Iraqi Arabs J (50.6%), E1b1b (10.8%), R1b (10.8%), R1a (6.9%) and T (5.9%).[337][338] Egyptian Arabs E1b1b (36.7%) and J (32%), G (8.8%), T (8.2% R1b (4.1%), E1b1a (2.8%) and I(0.7%).[319][339] Sudanese Arabs J (47.1%), E1b1b (16.3%), R1b (15.7%) and I(3.13%).[340][341] Moroccan Arabs E1b1b (75.5%) and J1 (20.4%).[342][343] Tunisian ArabsE1b1b(49.3%), J1 (35.8%), R1b (6.8%) and E1b1a (1.4%).[344] Algerian Arabs E1b1b (54%), J1 (35%), R1b(13%).[344] Libyan Arabs E1b1b (35.88%), J (30.53%), E1b1a (8.78%), G (4.20%), R1a/R1b (3.43%) and E (1.53%).[345][346]
The mtDNA haplogroup J has been observed at notable frequencies among overall populations in the Arab world.[347] The maternal clade R0 reaches its highest frequency in the Arabian peninsula,[348] while K and T(specifically subclade T2) is more common in the Levant.[347] In the Nile Valley and Horn of Africa, haplogroups N1and M1;[348] in the Maghreb, haplogroups H1 and U6 are more significant.[349]
There are four principal West Eurasian autosomal DNA components that characterize the populations in the Arab world: the Arabian, Levantine, Coptic and Maghrebi components.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arabs#Genetics
So in short ancient Egyptians and ancient modern-day Arab populations were closely related millennia ago. Long before their past and current identities were constructed. This closeness was cemented further after the rise of Islam. The only thing that changed was the influx of Afro-Arabs. However in Egypt there was a pre-Afro-Arab Black population in the form of Nubians that inhabit Southern Egypt. This is just another confirmation out of many.
Shapur Zol Aktaf
SENIOR MEMBER
- Joined
- Feb 10, 2013
- Messages
- 3,711
- Reaction score
- -6
- Country
- Location
If it's like that then egyptians and arabs are also relatives because at a certain time they mixed, sumerians and arabs are relatives, native indians of USA and germans and spanish are relatives etc..
I have not seen 350000 black africans in Iran, impossible (maybe 100000 max, mostly part of already arab speaking coastal population). Arab, black, north african population in Italy is together near 2 million. In Iran we've about 1,5 million arabs. Relatively you have more of them since your population is 60 million while ours is 80 million. And while we speak the numbers are rising in Italy, not in Iran.
We're independent but not completely free, you're free but not free enough to be independent.
tirdad
FULL MEMBER
- Joined
- Mar 13, 2016
- Messages
- 303
- Reaction score
- 0
- Country
- Location
Sorry Guy ...
but this is a lie.
on the papers, yes, it seems ok.
but, in reality, answer is NO.
what i see, is Reality, and what you wrote, is a lie.
You like it or not, everything is changing ...
Most of Iraniana, Especially, Outside of Iran,
Hate Arabs. Not Arab peoples, but Arab Governments.
We hate islam ...for many reasons ...
Most important, it is demonic .
Just have a look at world clashes, before and after 1979 Uprising.
how many jihadis nd such this, before 1979 ?
nothing.
but, after 1979,
in Asia, Europa, America ...
how many peoples died because they were muslims ?
or, how many were killed by muslims, because they were not muslims ?
Iran wants war in the area ...
but, we want peace.
all arab league, helped Iraq during war ...
now, why are we helping them ?
for me, this is understandale.
plus that ...
During iran - iraq war, we captured +200 Egytian prisoners ...
how many died, i don't know.
Similar threads
