The Persian wars - opinion in Iran?

[TNT]

What an illiterate joke

Out of 3500 years old history of Iranics in the Iranic plateau (Indo european aryan migration started in 3rd Millenium transition phase). Semites Arabs and Jews) have barely been able to keep Iran for like 132 years ... that too in the weakest phase of Iranic empire because of constant fighting between Persian and Byzantine superpowers of that time. They weakened both and Arab nomads got in. Fair enough they ruled for what like 132 years out of our 3500 years ... and then they were kicked out ... They left zero mark on our genetic composition as Arabian J1 haplogroup is not even 3 % present in Iranic nations and that 3 % itself is from minorities like assyrian Iranians.

haplogroups of Iranics. Arabian J1 is just missing lol because their rule was for a tiny time span and it was weak to the point that iranic nation just refused to mix with Arabs.

https://doi.org/10.1371/journal.pone.0041252

There goes your whole myth of Iranics getting ruled by Arabs lol. Mind you Arabs are numerous and Persians are a tiny migrated warrior Indo European group that was not native to the land. Even today Persians are like 15 times smaller warrior group in numbers compared to semites like arabs yet they created empires that lasted millennia and were larger than what any arab or an Indic (much below Arabs in martial heirarchy) can even imagine of.

Let along persian subgroup the entire Iranics are the only group in the entire MENA region (stretching from Afghanistan to Morocco) that has preserved its genes, never been modified by any conquerer. Look at this PCA plot. A modern-day Iranian is 95 % genetic continuity of iron age Iranic

Out of this 3500 years old History of Indo-European Iranic nation ... you know for how many years have we ruled Arab lands ? ROFL I will tell you for how long. This is Persian Achamenid Aryan empire, Can you count how many arab countries it ruled for 3 centuries?

Then Parthian Empire for 451 years.

Then Sassanian Empire for 430 years.

and mind you these are just Persian empires that are found by one iranic ethnicity, a tiny migrated group. Ever since the advent Irano-Turk age we have been ruling Arabs for literally centuries and fighting our wars on arab and Indic lands.

here is a fun fact for you, NO ARAB HAS SET FOOT ON IRANIC LAND for the past 13 centuries. We Irano-turks (my own ethnicity is Azeri Turk) started ruling entire Middle East, Central Asia and South asia so bad that we changed the religions and genetics of people we conquered. Why do you think you a north Indian group follow Islam and your autosomal DNA shows Iranic markers? Its because my Turko-iranic ancestors conquered your ancestors for millennia. I am assuming you are an Indic type Pakistani (majority of Pak is Indic). We started our own branch of Islam under the Qizilbash flags in 14-15th century, if we would have wanted we could have converted the entire Iranic plateau to our own tengrism or Zoroastrianism but we wanted Islam so we are Muhammad's (PBUH) warrior Muslims now. We chose our identity, our own religion because we are warrior people, not because anyone forced us. Nations built from conquered converted religions and modified genes will not understand middle eastern inner fighting.

and before you try to put any difference between us Turko-Iranics. We share region, religion, cultures and have the same GENES.

Here is our Iranic-Turkic history for past 800 years. Please tell me where are the arabs ? yeah they are colonized by us (as our equals, our brothers).

for our entire history! even today we are sitting in Iraq, Lebanon, Yemen, Syria ... And they are our brothers, our equals. Like I said, you just can not understand, you are not middle eastern, not one of us. keep cheering for Saudi kings and their patron Americans for all we care.

U may well attach a picture of the monkey that u guys evolved from and proof that monkey had an empire lolz. Arabs brought Islam and that change is still there. And ppl like u running after genetic traits are idiots and racists. Its not abt a race but abt their belief. Arabs were sand ppl untill Islam made them conquerors.

 

[Muhammed45]

Persians and Greeks were fighting to dominate each other.Here came Arabs and dominated both Greeks and persians .What a cool chapter of history!

Actually it was the power of our religion that defeated empires not Arab race. Arabs were backward and tribal, like Quran mentions they always wanted to return. And they have successfuly returned to pre prophet times as of now. See, they are mostly proud of turning Jeddah into a brothel house thinking of it as a modernization process which i would call modern Jahiliyyah.

It is not a wrong interpretation if we claim that ISIS and extremism as a whole is a result of Arab Jahiliyyah (Arab culture before Islam) which existed during prophet Muhammed's pbuh conquest of Arab lands.

Arabs can't be proud of Islam's power as an Arab thing. It is Indeed the power of Allah swt.

 

[SalarHaqq]

Modern Iran would have been a regional power with Shah Pahlavi. By 1985 Iran would have had one of the strongest militaries in the world at the time and the oil exports would have made it a leading country in the OPEC.

Iran already was a regional power during Mohammad Reza Shah Pahlavi's reign in the 1970's. It intervened on behalf of the British in Dhofar, Oman to suppress a marxist rebellion, it sent its AH-1J gunship helicopters to Pakistan to crush separatists in Baluchistan, it was attributed the role of "gendarme of the Persian Gulf" by the Americans according to the Nixon doctrine which consisted in delegating the defence of US interests to some select state(s) in each region of the world.

However Iran used to be a power completely dependent on its foreign patrons, in this case westerners and not oft talked about zionists and their Haifan Bahai associates, who had an extensive yet subtle and not immediately visible grip over Iranian affairs prior to the Islamic Revolution.

Iran used to be a regional power, yes. One whose status would instantly crumble the minute its foreign backers withdrew their support. This type of power is deprived of a proper foundation since it does not rest on sovereignty, self-determination and independence.

Today Iran's a regional power too, but an authentic, solid one by contrast.

 

[Muhammad Saftain Anjum]

it sent its AH-1J gunship helicopters to Pakista

Can you explain this part?

 

[SalarHaqq]

Can you explain this part?

I'm no expert on the question so I won't be able to provide details, but Iran intervened to support Pakistan during the 1973-1977 separatist insurgency in Baluchistan. This much is established. And as far as I remember having read somewhere, it included the use of some of the Cobras Iran had purchased a large amount of from the US. Can't really tell you more, but I guess others may.

In Wikipedia it states:

"Assisted by Iran, Pakistani forces inflicted heavy casualties on the separatists. The insurgency fell into decline after a return to the four-province structure and the abolishment of the Sardari system."

Insurgency in Balochistan - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Foinikas]

Iran already was a regional power during Mohammad Reza Shah Pahlavi's reign in the 1970's. It intervened on behalf of the British in Dhofar, Oman to suppress a marxist rebellion, it sent its AH-1J gunship helicopters to Pakistan to crush separatists in Baluchistan, it was attributed the role of "gendarme of the Persian Gulf" by the Americans according to the Nixon doctrine which consisted in delegating the defence of US interests to some select state(s) in each region of the world.

I didn't know about that. Helping Pakistan with the Cobras and Oman etc.

 

[Raghfarm007]

let me tell you a story from a Greek friend of mine, Angelos, who was at university wih me.
This once he said to me that he had heard in Greece that there are still villags in Iran that speak Greek... I had to remind him that the Masedonins were in Iran for only 80 years, and that was 2400 years ago! So, no, there are no Greek speaking villages in Irn!!! But this really showed me how delusional Greeks really are.

They dont realise that Alxander the Masedonian first concured the other Helenic people. Slaughtering each other was very common amonst the ancient Greeks". Iran actually many times paid rival "Greek" states to go to war with eachother.

This is what I mean when I say most people do not study history, and just make up fantacies to escape their current realities.
Only in Greece do they consider the Byzantine empire as Greek. The rest of the world knows it correctly as Roman. But why let facts get in the way of fantacies....

I didn't know about that. Helping Pakistan with the Cobras and Oman etc.

No offence meant..... but there is A LOT you dont know... and it shows... I would suggest you go back to your fantacy world where ancient Hellenic people were one united nation that always beat the Iranians in war and were the nobility of the Roman empire and rulled over the Byzantines.... in that world, you know everything.

 

[Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen]

I would like to know how Iranians today think about this?

Why did Persia at the time think it can invade Greece and make it part of the persian empire? How did persia think this would work with a culture so fundamental different to Persia. Was the persian empire always overstretched at this time? When you follow the timeline, Marathon, Thermopylae, Salamis, Plataea...the persians got defeated again and again.First under their king Darius, later his son Xerxes, an endless line of defeats and the result was basicly that Persia left Greece alone. It laid teh foundation for Alexander the Great who destroyed the persian empire and made it part of the hellenic world.

In Greece we always learn our side but never Irans side. So i would like to know your opinion about this era.

Greece was conquered by Turks didn't it? Yeah it would have been possible for Persia to conquer Greece. It was merely bad strategy that saved Greece from Persia.

 

[KaiserX]

Tbh ill tell you what MOST pakistanis think. I cannot speak for all but I can speak for general perceptions regarding greek/persians/alexander the great. The reason I included alexander with the other 2 is that in Pakistan you cannot include those two without including alexander lol

1) Alexander the great is generally thought of very highly. His military conquest, as well as his governance. Sialkot has a famous city centre after him. This may also be because Pakistani culture values military conquest and strong military leaders. Thus I can strongly say Alexander the great is held in high esteem far more in Pakistan than in India were he is usually considered a foreign invader.
2) Greeks ruled the subcontinent for 1000 years under the indo-greek kingdoms. Many of which centered in modern day Pakistan/Afghanistan.
3) Persian empire is generally distrusted. Even though later on they became muslims they generally were against the sunni kingdoms in the subcontinent. Nader shahs invasion of delhi is looked down upon as a betrayal similar to what indians did in 1971 except it was done by fellow "Muslims".
4) Pakistani people are generally pro Turkish. This does not mean that they are anti-greece though. In this context it is important to look at Greek-Turkish similarities. Language aside the culture/people are very similar. So in this context Pakistan is more pro-greek than maybe pro-persian.
5) Iran under the shah was generally pro pakistan. Pakistani people would have been more pro-persian pre-1971. Culturally/people/food wise we are still far more closer to Iran than we are to Turkey/Greece.

Lastly for Pakistanis shiites they will be far more pro-persian due to religious affiliation.

 

[Foinikas]

No offence meant..... but there is A LOT you dont know... and it shows... I would suggest you go back to your fantacy world where ancient Hellenic people were one united nation that always beat the Iranians in war and were the nobility of the Roman empire and rulled over the Byzantines.... in that world, you know everything.

How can this not be offensive? Good Lord! You think we're ignorant? There's even Pakistani members who didn't know about this Iranian Cobras in Balochistan thing!
After all the discussion and posts in this thread,you still think that Greeks are taught they beat Persians in every war and were an unstoppable machine? I'm starting to think you're prejudiced,but trying to conceal it.

Here,have some art from Severino Baraldi. The Battle of Marathon and Plataies. Just because I'm pissed off now. Where the heck do you think you're living,man? Iran's not the Achaemenid Empire nor the Sassanid Empire anymore. Not even the Savafid Empire. How many rials do you need to buy a bottle of water? I mean come on!

 

[Foinikas]

This is what I mean when I say most people do not study history, and just make up fantacies to escape their current realities.
Only in Greece do they consider the Byzantine empire as Greek. The rest of the world knows it correctly as Roman. But why let facts get in the way of fantacies....

Are you sure you are not the ignorant one? In medieval chronicles,the sources themselves,Franks,Germans,Italians and others,called the Byzantines "Greeks". They called them and considered them Greeks. And the Byzantines,called themselves Romans because they considered themselves and were,the legal heirs and continuation of the Roman Empire. That's why the Arabs and Turks called them "Rum" but also "Yunan". In medieval historiography,it is evident that Western Europeans and Slavs,called and considered the Byzantines as Greeks in ethnicity,culture and education.
What was Byzantium? It was Greek culture and ways merged with Roman legislation and traditions combined with Orthodox Christianity.

One guy told you he heard there was a village in Iran speaking Greek and you think all greeks are ignorant? If I go on youtube right now,do you know how many ignorant Persians,Turks,Greeks,Pakistanis,Arabs I will find?

If anything,you're not helping on the Greek-Persian friendship on the forum.

 

[aryobarzan]

I like Greeks ..Great people and there is a huge Greek population in Montreal where I went to school. I once was riding a taxi and the taxi driver who was Greeks was talking to me about engineering and told me that "we Greeks invented everything"..I did not say a word but it demonstrates that they have a very high patriotic view of their history and their place in this world and to a large extent they can claim that for the "western" civilization...I have no doubt they claims a lot of victories in their text book against Persians and that is fine it will not change the historical facts ..every nation exaggerates their victories and down plays their defeats...Old civilization such as Persians and Greeks have a lot of them....if you grow old you have a lot of scars..lol

 

[Foinikas]

I like Greeks ..Great people and there is a huge Greek population in Montreal where I went to school. I once was riding a taxi and the taxi driver who was Greeks was talking to me about engineering and told me that "we Greeks invented everything"..I did not say a word but it demonstrates that they have a very high patriotic view of their history and their place in this world and to a large extent they can claim that for the "western" civilization...I have no doubt they claims a lot of victories in their text book against Persians and that is fine it will not change the historical facts ..every nation exaggerates their victories and down plays their defeats...Old civilization such as Persians and Greeks have a lot of them....if you grow old you have a lot of scars..lol

In nations like Hellas and Persia,nations with thousands of years of history,there are many victories and many defeats,many wars and battles.It's not bad to love your country and look back to the good days of your ancestors.

Others only have a bit more than 200 years of history and act like they know everything

 

[Raghfarm007]

Thank you for proving my point again and again..... I am delighted that you posted childish cartoons of wars, because it really goes to show how the average Greeks has childish fanacies in their head to get away from their current realities....

I will not even get into your logic, or lack of, but go and read what you said above..... The Byzantines called themselves Roman, but they were Greek?? LOL. I guess if your nation doesn´t have anything to show for itself, you might as well make a claim on other people´s achievements....

And really, it is utter stupidity on your part to talk about economic issues of Iran, when Greece is doing so much worse.... remember how people were forced to sell their kids in Greece a few years ago? And you make fun of Iran´s currency? LOL, at least Iran has its own currency, and doesn´t depen on the Euro that is German controlled......and beg for free handouts and debt relief...

At least Iran is under US santions......what´s Greece´s excuse for being the worst basket case???

Now that you brought out the pictures, let me show you how much more advanced Iran is compared to little old bankrupt Greece. I really didn´t want to humiliate Greeks, as I have been there many time and have several Greek friends, but to compare Greece to Iran in any way is redicloues, Greece should be compred to basket case countries in Africa, who have no industries at all, Iran is a highly indutrialised and advanced country, and is the formost power in West Asia, and aiming to be a global superpower once again.... Greece has nothing to comare to Iran.
Maybe in another thousand years you too can have infrastructure like Iran.....or maybe in a thousand years Greeks will still fantacise about their Great immaginery past. LOL

 

[Apollon]

Thank you for proving my point again and again..... I am delighted that you posted childish cartoons of wars, because it really goes to show how the average Greeks has childish fanacies in their head to get away from their current realities....

I will not even get into your logic, or lack of, but go and read what you said above..... The Byzantines called themselves Roman, but they were Greek?? LOL. I guess if your nation doesn´t have anything to show for itself, you might as well make a claim on other people´s achievements....

And really, it is utter stupidity on your part to talk about economic issues of Iran, when Greece is doing so much worse.... remember how people were forced to sell their kids in Greece a few years ago? And you make fun of Iran´s currency? LOL, at least Iran has its own currency, and doesn´t depen on the Euro that is German controlled......and beg for free handouts and debt relief...

At least Iran is under US santions......what´s Greece´s excuse for being the worst basket case???

Now that you brought out the pictures, let me show you how much more advanced Iran is compared to little old bankrupt Greece. I really didn´t want to humiliate Greeks, as I have been there many time and have several Greek friends, but to compare Greece to Iran in any way is redicloues, Greece should be compred to basket case countries in Africa, who have no industries at all, Iran is a highly indutrialised and advanced country, and is the formost power in West Asia, and aiming to be a global superpower once again.... Greece has nothing to comare to Iran.
Maybe in another thousand years you too can have infrastructure like Iran.....or maybe in a thousand years Greeks will still fantacise about their Great immaginery past. LOL

You talk some rubbish.

Greece is a high income nation and even during ecenomic crisis had 8 times higher salary than Iran.

Nobody in Greece sold their kids. Thats laughable. We are a EU nation.

The pictures you show look like any poor eastern european city. Looks like Ukraine.

Irans GDP is only 191.7 billion $.

Greece GDP is 189.4 billion €... and Iran has 8 times more people than Greece.

Greece is classified as an advanced,[49] high-income economy,[50]

And yes, Byzantine Empire was Greek. Capital was in Greece, language was Greek. Religion was Greek Orthodox church. Your historic knowledge is very low.


P.s. at its current growth rate, Iran would need 68 years to catch up to the average income in Greece.