This is how "REZONANS-NE" Radar (Egypt) nullifies the effect of stealth fighter aircrafts

[Philip the Arab]

But what do you mean about "we may see a radar in the future like the Protivnik-GE? Did you mean an Egyptian-made one? Because the Protivnik GE is already in Egypt, ma man. It's part of this entire system with the Resonance-NE.

No, I mean indigenous L band 450km radar that was supposed to be read by now.

 

[The SC]

@Gomig-21
Also brother, we may see a radar in the future like Provitinik GE as members of other forums have said but we may have to wait a bit longer as EDEX was postponed.

And yeah, Egypt will most likely have space satellites able to have very high precision in the near future considering the developments that are there already. With that comes the ultimate intelligence gathering system, and the possibility of exporting very high precision satellites to close allies and making a profitable space industry.

Egypt already had at least 3 potent spy satellite it bought from Russia put in orbit; EgyptSat-1 EgyptSat-2 and EgyptSat-A ..and there are still the French and the Italian ones to come soon..

 

[Philip the Arab]

Egypt already had at least 3 potent spy satellite it bought from Russia put in orbit; EgyptSat-1 EgyptSat-2 and EgyptSat-A ..and there are still the French and the Italian ones to come soon..

I know this brother, i would prefer Egypt manufactures its own in the future for itself, and allies.

 

[LeGenD]

Bro.. you are talking like if the Rezonans-N Radar is a stand alone system.. mind you Egypt has a forest of Radars all interlinked through the Egyptian C5iSR..

And Syria is a mess anyway..

Second the YJ-27 3D radar is not based on The resonant reflection of radio waves from airborne objects..
It is a VHF too but uses different technologies for detection and tracking..

Dear,

This is incredibly complex/technical theme to begin with and usually engineers are in the position to explain/elaborate. In this post, I am looking forward to expand general knowledge of all members of this forum who are lacking in understanding of this theme. I will keep my explanation simple and focused to the extent possible.

Back to the BASICS

Lower Frequency (GHz) = Higher Wavelength (CM)

Radar Cross Section (RCS)

This concept is lacking a uniform definition but following pointers are meaningful:


*

An object exposed to EM waves scatters the incident energy in all directions. The energy that returns to the source of the EM wave, known as backscattering, is the “echo” of the object. The intensity of the radar echo is what we refer to as RCS.

For more information: https://www.mwrf.com/technologies/s...attering-and-radar-cross-section-pdf-download

RCS = the area (width and length) of the scattered wave field being returned toward the radar.

RCS = the sum of the major reflective components of the aircraft’s shape.

The RCS of a target depends on the aspect angle, frequency, and polarization (Li & Kiang, 2005).

RCS Reflectivity (Forms)

• Specular Reflection
• Diffraction
• Creeping Waves
• Travelling Waves

*

RCS computing regions (Frequency regimes)

1. Optical region
2. Resonance/Mie region
3. Rayleigh region

While moving from Higher Frequency Bands to Lower Frequency Bands (moving from the Optical regime to the Resonance/Mie regime), specular reflection decreases in its intensity but its Lobe Width increases proportionally. Creeping waves also become more pronounced in the mix. The resultant interference between specular reflection and creeping waves is likely to produce resonance effects/oscillations (when this interference is constructive, the RCS is higher; when this interference is destructive the RCS is lower). Therefore, resonance effects can be pronounced in the Resonance/Mie region, and a radar system operating in one of the lower frequency bands can be configured to pick on these effects.

Further reading: https://core.ac.uk/download/pdf/36729947.pdf

RCS return of an airborne object is expected to be stable in the Optical region. This region corresponds to lower wavelengths and higher frequency bands by extension. This region facilitates target engagement possibilities due to precision factor but earlier steps (from detection to tracking) can be negated through stealthy applications.

Detection -> Identification -> Tracking -> Lock -> Engagement = KILL CHAIN complete.

RCS return of an airborne object is expected to be unstable in the Resonance/Mie region (i.e. oscillations; resonance effects). This region corresponds to higher wavelengths and lower frequency bands by extension. This region facilitates target detection possibilities (vs. stealthy applications) but subsequent steps (from identification to tracking) will prove challenging and/or impractical in some cases subject to different factors. The oscillations can enable a radar system operating in one of the lower frequency bands (e.g. VHF band) to pick on them (i.e. target detection), and attempt to identify the source with predictive algorithms in use for the needful (e.g. EFIE-MOM). If the oscillations are not frequent enough to facilitate target identification and tracking then Early Warning can be issued at most. In case such oscillations are really feint and infrequent (blending with BACKGROUND NOISE/CLUTTER) - TOUGH LUCK.

How to minimize RCS reflectivity and resonance effects?

Americans have managed to develop some of the most powerful and advanced radar systems in the world. They understand this art very well – better than most (mind you). They also lead in the domain of stealthy applications.


*

Fundamental objective of stealthy applications is to make radar echo feint and infrequent in order to make it convenient for the aircraft to mask its presence behind background noise/clutter. Towards this end, following measures are adopted.

Specular reflection = Mitigate through geometric shaping (deflecting).

Diffraction = Mitigate through geometric shaping (deflecting); minimizing protrusions (small fairings; grills; domes; wingtips; rivets; fasteners); covering engine intakes with diffusers and baffling; appropriate RAM application on vulnerable spaces where radar waves are not easy to control and/or redirect.

Travelling waves = Mitigate through geometric shaping (deflecting); minimizing protrusions (small fairings; grills; domes; wingtips; rivets; fasteners) is important consideration.

Resonance effects = Mitigate through geometric shaping (deflecting) in spots where specular reflection and creeping waves are very likely to collide as per calculations and observations; appropriate RAM application on same spots (some RAM applications are particularly designed to nullify Resonance effects).

"There are ways to combine techniques. Layered magnetic materials can reduce RCS by 10 dB from 2-20 GHz with 0.3 in. of depth. Hybrid RAMs can be created with a front layer of graded dielectric and a back layer of magnetic material to attenuate radar reflections from VHF to Ku-band." - The Aviation Special Report (State of Stealth)

Additional considerations include installing radar waves absorbing materials beneath the frame of the aircraft (classified information in large part), plasma stealth, and equipping the aircraft with comprehensive Electronic Warfare (EW) capabilities. Geometric shaping can be made VLO compliant to the extent that fuselage and/or tail can be eliminated altogether like in the case of B-2A Spirit – this aircraft is VLO across all frequency bands and LO even in the Rayleigh region. The upcoming B-21 Raider expands on this incredible design yet further, and to what extent would be an understatement.

The aforementioned considerations did not materialize out of the blue (or imagined) while developing a stealthy aircraft - WE are not talking about developing aesthetically pleasing cars in this case. RCS computation is made possible with complex mathematical formulae (mind you). Computing advances are making it possible to process and analyze radar returns in ways unlike possible before, enabling complex mathematical computations to mitigate RCS reflectivity consequently – these computations serve as the basis for VLO compliant geometric shaping.

American VLO class strike platforms such as B-2A Spirit, F-22A Raptor and F-35 Lightning II did not materialize out of the blue. These end-products benefited tremendously from supercomputers capable of calculating far more permutations of radar reflection (and from multiple directions) which were missing during the course of development of earlier generations of stealthy aircraft including F-117A Nighthawk. And Americans continue to improve each VLO class strike platform in a series of incremental updates (Blocks) to make sure that each will not lose its edge vis-à-vis emerging threats anytime soon. In fact, American ELO class strike platform(s) are emerging in the present and affiliated technologies are shrouded in secrecy to the point of being unheard of in public domain and otherwise.

What about an Integrated Air Defense System (IADS)?

IADS refer to an environment where multiple radar systems operating in different frequency ranges are interlinked to provide cues to each other and guide interlinked SAM system(s) to engage potential threats – an arrangement which helps plug Coverage Gaps over the region of interest. VLO class strike platforms will reintroduce Coverage Gaps in the same environment however.

Notice how SAM engagement zones shorten for VLO class strike platforms?

Training and Tactics are important considerations nevertheless.

• Penetration missions are more likely to succeed under the cover of darkness (nighttime conditions).

• VLO class stand-off munitions will reduce the need to penetrate an IADS to significant extent in order to engage high value targets.

• Radar echoes being feint and infrequent are far from easy to distinguish from background NOISE/CLUTTER. Imagine the impact of sophisticated EW capabilities in the mix.

• A STRIKE PACKAGE can help mitigate RISKS by virtue of splitting tactics and providing COVER to each other until the mission is accomplished. A minimum of two stealthy aircraft are to be called for any mission (Modus Operandi). A STRIKE PACKAGE could be much larger anyways and tasked to erode and destroy much of the IADS itself (assuming major hostilities).

IADS is not something new but materialized back in the days of Cold War and even the likes of Libya fielded one. Americans experienced these arrangements in Libya in 1986 (Operation El Dorado Canyon), Iraq in 1991 (Operation Desert Storm), and Yugoslavia (Operation Nobel Anvil) respectively.

They also had exposure in Pakistan in 2011 (Operation Neptune Spear), and in Syria after Russians arrived and rebuild its defenses (Operation Inherent Resolve). This is not counting undisclosed missions over Iran and other countries over the course of years.

---- ---- ---
*Images credited to Rebecca Grant.

(Li & Kiang, 2005) = Li, H. J., & Kiang, Y. W. (2004). Radar and inverse scattering. The Electrical Engineering Handbook, 671.

So what are you saying exactly, that the RCS numbers it's showing after detection are too high? That's possible. I think that L-bands and VHF have already shown capabilities of detecting stealthy objects to a certain degree and now with resonance reflection, it's added a whole new dynamic to the ability to not only detect it, but alter it and even negate it to a certain degree. So those numbers could be exaggerated, sure, but whatever the real numbers are, they're still going to be very effective as far as the resonance radar's capability is.

Remember, as much as people like to diss the Egyptian military at any opportunity that they can, even Russian technology takes a beating, still, they wouldn't go to that extent to invest something of that magnitude if it was just a dud.

Dear,

I hold Egypt and its armed forces in high regard in personal capacity. I am not asserting that Egypt made the wrong call by fielding Russian Resonance-NE radar system; I believe that this is good long-term investment. Something better than nothing, right?

I am simply sticking to my original perspective - "Too much hype, and RCS Figures are not realistic." I have provided ample explanation in this post above.

You can bet that part of the layering of these radar systems is obviously the Protivnik-GE. When we first saw this radar in a quick clip of one of the army videos, everyone was running to the Internet to see what it was and once they found out is was a monster surveillance radar, we all realized they're taking this whole line of defense augmentation very seriously. Then shortly thereafter, the news of the Rezonance-E came out that Egypt had acquired it and then it made sense later why they also bought the German IRIS-T-SL.

The incredible part of all this is the crazy range. While the Resonance's range is up to 1100 km, it can track at 600 km which when you look at it if say they set up the radar somewhere near Suez City or Ain Sokhna, it would not only cover all of Israel lol, it goes way into Syria and then radii into most of Turkey and all the way around from there. This is truly impressive. Heck they'll be watching the F-35s parking into their hangers and when they leave and everything they do lol.

Couple that with the Protivnik surveillance radar, they're watching every single aircraft taking off, landing, taxiing and parking lol. Then the headquarters where command center is is beyond impressive. The capabilities of tracking and executing commands to other systems and aircraft is really the best thing to have to essentially avoid any kind of silly and ambitious surprise attack of any kind.

To boot, when they were showing all the attacks from drones and F-16s on the influx of terrorros coming across the western border, it's mind-boggling how they were able to see them and then nail them right at the border before they were able to get in too far. Then it all made sense as to how they were spotting all these intrusions.

When you look at all these powerful radars set up and layered with SAM systems as well as the EAF, there's also going to be the Bastion Coastal Defense Missile System and then it will be pretty tough coming anywhere close to Egypt's borders before being busted badly.

And as far as the F-35 spoofing and jamming and causing all kinds of havoc, don't forget that they're being watched the entire time, too and Egypt has its slew of EW networks that create a ton of problems. Heck the Rafales alone can alter the F-35s missions. Yeah, things aren't as they once were, that's for sure.

You need to be mindful of the Line-of-Sight factor in this case. Secondly, there is too much NOISE/CLUTTER on the surface to keep tabs on aircraft taking off and landing on military bases many miles away. These spaces are also expected to be equipped with jamming technologies to suppress incoming radar waves.

Israel is known to utilize its F-35i in VLO configuration under cover of darkness for missions in Syria, and their radar echoes will be feint and infrequent to the point of escaping attention. You can see how sensitive Americans are when it comes to deciding whom to provide these jet fighters and are rejecting orders from countries which are fielding Russian S-400 systems to begin with. The fact that they are not concerned about Egyptian IADS coverage in the region is very telling. They also have confidence in professionalism of IDF.

---

F-35 is exceedingly capable in the EW spectrum – much more so than even French Rafale because EW suite is not merely one of the components in F-35 but at the very essence of its core (integrated architecture) since it must reconcile diverse signals with the requirement to remain stealthy and continuously utilize other on-board systems such as digital datalinks. That architecture differs greatly from the looser, “federated” architectures of last-generation fighters, because those aircraft were not designed to be stealthy. Once you decide you want to be invisible to enemy radar and other sensors, though, every emission your plane generates has to be carefully controlled. So even the turbofan engine on the F-35 is designed to limit its reflectivity to radar and the heat of its exhaust.

Read and learn.

The F-35 Isn't Just 'Stealthy': Here's How Its Electronic Warfare System Gives It An Edge

Public reference is seldom made to the fighter's formidable electronic warfare system, but it's those capabilities combined with its better known integrated stealth design that make F-35 the most unbeatable combat aircraft ever built. Here's what's known about its EW capabilities.

www.forbes.com

F-35's Most Sinister Capability Are Towed Decoys That Unreel From Inside Its Stealthy Skin

These "little buddies" not only protect the jet, but they can be used creatively to goad the enemy into showing itself and dying as a result.

www.thedrive.com

The range of AN/ASQ-239 EW suite exceeds 900 KM by the way.

 

[The SC]

Bro.. you are talking like if the Rezonans-N Radar is a stand alone system.. mind you Egypt has a forest of Radars all interlinked through the Egyptian C5iSR..

And Syria is a mess anyway..

Second the YJ-27 3D radar is not based on The resonant reflection of radio waves from airborne objects..
It is a VHF too but uses different technologies for detection and tracking..

Dear,

This is incredibly complex/technical theme to begin with and usually engineers are in the position to explain/elaborate. In this post, I am looking forward to expand general knowledge of all members of this forum who are lacking in understanding of this theme. I will keep my explanation simple and focused to the extent possible.

Back to the BASICS

Lower Frequency (GHz) = Higher Wavelength (CM)

Radar Cross Section (RCS)

This concept is lacking a uniform definition but following pointers are meaningful:


*

An object exposed to EM waves scatters the incident energy in all directions. The energy that returns to the source of the EM wave, known as backscattering, is the “echo” of the object. The intensity of the radar echo is what we refer to as RCS.

For more information: https://www.mwrf.com/technologies/s...attering-and-radar-cross-section-pdf-download

RCS = the area (width and length) of the scattered wave field being returned toward the radar.

RCS = the sum of the major reflective components of the aircraft’s shape.

The RCS of a target depends on the aspect angle, frequency, and polarization (Li & Kiang, 2005).

RCS Reflectivity (Forms)

• Specular Reflection
• Diffraction
• Creeping Waves
• Travelling Waves

*

RCS computing regions (Frequency regimes)

1. Optical region
2. Resonance/Mie region
3. Rayleigh region

While moving from Higher Frequency Bands to Lower Frequency Bands (moving from the Optical regime to the Resonance/Mie regime), specular reflection decreases in its intensity but its Lobe Width increases proportionally. Creeping waves also become more pronounced in the mix. The resultant interference between specular reflection and creeping waves is likely to produce resonance effects/oscillations (when this interference is constructive, the RCS is higher; when this interference is destructive the RCS is lower). Therefore, resonance effects can be pronounced in the Resonance/Mie region, and a radar system operating in one of the lower frequency bands can be configured to pick on these effects.

Further reading: https://core.ac.uk/download/pdf/36729947.pdf

RCS return of an airborne object is expected to be stable in the Optical region. This region corresponds to lower wavelengths and higher frequency bands by extension. This region facilitates target engagement possibilities due to precision factor but earlier steps (from detection to tracking) can be negated through stealthy applications.

Detection -> Identification -> Tracking -> Lock -> Engagement = KILL CHAIN complete.

RCS return of an airborne object is expected to be unstable in the Resonance/Mie region (i.e. oscillations; resonance effects). This region corresponds to higher wavelengths and lower frequency bands by extension. This region facilitates target detection possibilities (vs. stealthy applications) but subsequent steps (from identification to tracking) will prove challenging and/or impractical in some cases subject to different factors. The oscillations can enable a radar system operating in one of the lower frequency bands (e.g. VHF band) to pick on them (i.e. target detection), and attempt to identify the source with predictive algorithms in use for the needful (e.g. EFIE-MOM). If the oscillations are not frequent enough to facilitate target identification and tracking then Early Warning can be issued at most. In case such oscillations are really feint and infrequent (blending with BACKGROUND NOISE/CLUTTER) - TOUGH LUCK.

How to minimize RCS reflectivity and resonance effects?

Americans have managed to develop some of the most powerful and advanced radar systems in the world. They understand this art very well – better than most (mind you). They also lead in the domain of stealthy applications.


*

Fundamental objective of stealthy applications is to make radar echo feint and infrequent in order to make it convenient for the aircraft to mask its presence behind background noise/clutter. Towards this end, following measures are adopted.

Specular reflection = Mitigate through geometric shaping (deflecting).

Diffraction = Mitigate through geometric shaping (deflecting); minimizing protrusions (small fairings; grills; domes; wingtips; rivets; fasteners); covering engine intakes with diffusers and baffling; appropriate RAM application on vulnerable spaces where radar waves are not easy to control and/or redirect.

Travelling waves = Mitigate through geometric shaping (deflecting); minimizing protrusions (small fairings; grills; domes; wingtips; rivets; fasteners) is important consideration.

Resonance effects = Mitigate through geometric shaping (deflecting) in spots where specular reflection and creeping waves are very likely to collide as per calculations and observations; appropriate RAM application on same spots (some RAM applications are particularly designed to nullify Resonance effects).

"There are ways to combine techniques. Layered magnetic materials can reduce RCS by 10 dB from 2-20 GHz with 0.3 in. of depth. Hybrid RAMs can be created with a front layer of graded dielectric and a back layer of magnetic material to attenuate radar reflections from VHF to Ku-band." - The Aviation Special Report (State of Stealth)

Additional considerations include installing radar waves absorbing materials beneath the frame of the aircraft (classified information in large part), plasma stealth, and equipping the aircraft with comprehensive Electronic Warfare (EW) capabilities. Geometric shaping can be made VLO compliant to the extent that fuselage and/or tail can be eliminated altogether like in the case of B-2A Spirit – this aircraft is VLO across all frequency bands and LO even in the Rayleigh region. The upcoming B-21 Raider expands on this incredible design yet further, and to what extent would be an understatement.

The aforementioned considerations did not materialize out of the blue (or imagined) while developing a stealthy aircraft - WE are not talking about developing aesthetically pleasing cars in this case. RCS computation is made possible with complex mathematical formulae (mind you). Computing advances are making it possible to process and analyze radar returns in ways unlike possible before, enabling complex mathematical computations to mitigate RCS reflectivity consequently – these computations serve as the basis for VLO compliant geometric shaping.

American VLO class strike platforms such as B-2A Spirit, F-22A Raptor and F-35 Lightning II did not materialize out of the blue. These end-products benefited tremendously from supercomputers capable of calculating far more permutations of radar reflection (and from multiple directions) which were missing during the course of development of earlier generations of stealthy aircraft including F-117A Nighthawk. And Americans continue to improve each VLO class strike platform in a series of incremental updates (Blocks) to make sure that each will not lose its edge vis-à-vis emerging threats anytime soon. In fact, American ELO class strike platform(s) are emerging in the present and affiliated technologies are shrouded in secrecy to the point of being unheard of in public domain and otherwise.

What about an Integrated Air Defense System (IADS)?

IADS refer to an environment where multiple radar systems operating in different frequency ranges are interlinked to provide cues to each other and guide interlinked SAM system(s) to engage potential threats – an arrangement which helps plug Coverage Gaps over the region of interest. VLO class strike platforms will reintroduce Coverage Gaps in the same environment however.

View attachment 674893

Notice how SAM engagement zones shorten for VLO class strike platforms?

Training and Tactics are important considerations nevertheless.

• Penetration missions are more likely to succeed under the cover of darkness (nighttime conditions).

• VLO class stand-off munitions will reduce the need to penetrate an IADS to significant extent in order to engage high value targets.

• Radar echoes being feint and infrequent are far from easy to distinguish from background NOISE/CLUTTER. Imagine the impact of sophisticated EW capabilities in the mix.

• A STRIKE PACKAGE can help mitigate RISKS by virtue of splitting tactics and providing COVER to each other until the mission is accomplished. A minimum of two stealthy aircraft are to be called for any mission (Modus Operandi). A STRIKE PACKAGE could be much larger anyways and tasked to erode and destroy much of the IADS itself (assuming major hostilities).

IADS is not something new but materialized back in the days of Cold War and even the likes of Libya fielded one. Americans experienced these arrangements in Libya in 1986 (Operation El Dorado Canyon), Iraq in 1991 (Operation Desert Storm), and Yugoslavia (Operation Nobel Anvil) respectively.

They also had exposure in Pakistan in 2011 (Operation Neptune Spear), and in Syria after Russians arrived and rebuild its defenses (Operation Inherent Resolve). This is not counting undisclosed missions over Iran and other countries over the course of years.

---- ---- ---
*Images credited to Rebecca Grant.

(Li & Kiang, 2005) = Li, H. J., & Kiang, Y. W. (2004). Radar and inverse scattering. The Electrical Engineering Handbook, 671.

So what are you saying exactly, that the RCS numbers it's showing after detection are too high? That's possible. I think that L-bands and VHF have already shown capabilities of detecting stealthy objects to a certain degree and now with resonance reflection, it's added a whole new dynamic to the ability to not only detect it, but alter it and even negate it to a certain degree. So those numbers could be exaggerated, sure, but whatever the real numbers are, they're still going to be very effective as far as the resonance radar's capability is.

Remember, as much as people like to diss the Egyptian military at any opportunity that they can, even Russian technology takes a beating, still, they wouldn't go to that extent to invest something of that magnitude if it was just a dud.

Dear,

I hold Egypt and its armed forces in high regard in personal capacity. I am not asserting that Egypt made the wrong call by fielding Russian Resonance-NE radar system; I believe that this is good long-term investment. Something better than nothing, right?

I am simply sticking to my original perspective - "Too much hype, and RCS Figures are not realistic." I have provided ample explanation in this post above.

You can bet that part of the layering of these radar systems is obviously the Protivnik-GE. When we first saw this radar in a quick clip of one of the army videos, everyone was running to the Internet to see what it was and once they found out is was a monster surveillance radar, we all realized they're taking this whole line of defense augmentation very seriously. Then shortly thereafter, the news of the Rezonance-E came out that Egypt had acquired it and then it made sense later why they also bought the German IRIS-T-SL.

The incredible part of all this is the crazy range. While the Resonance's range is up to 1100 km, it can track at 600 km which when you look at it if say they set up the radar somewhere near Suez City or Ain Sokhna, it would not only cover all of Israel lol, it goes way into Syria and then radii into most of Turkey and all the way around from there. This is truly impressive. Heck they'll be watching the F-35s parking into their hangers and when they leave and everything they do lol.

Couple that with the Protivnik surveillance radar, they're watching every single aircraft taking off, landing, taxiing and parking lol. Then the headquarters where command center is is beyond impressive. The capabilities of tracking and executing commands to other systems and aircraft is really the best thing to have to essentially avoid any kind of silly and ambitious surprise attack of any kind.

To boot, when they were showing all the attacks from drones and F-16s on the influx of terrorros coming across the western border, it's mind-boggling how they were able to see them and then nail them right at the border before they were able to get in too far. Then it all made sense as to how they were spotting all these intrusions.

When you look at all these powerful radars set up and layered with SAM systems as well as the EAF, there's also going to be the Bastion Coastal Defense Missile System and then it will be pretty tough coming anywhere close to Egypt's borders before being busted badly.

And as far as the F-35 spoofing and jamming and causing all kinds of havoc, don't forget that they're being watched the entire time, too and Egypt has its slew of EW networks that create a ton of problems. Heck the Rafales alone can alter the F-35s missions. Yeah, things aren't as they once were, that's for sure.

You need to be mindful of the Line-of-Sight factor in this case. Secondly, there is too much NOISE/CLUTTER on the surface to keep tabs on aircraft taking off and landing on military bases many miles away. These spaces are also expected to be equipped with jamming technologies to suppress incoming radar waves.

Israel is known to utilize its F-35i in VLO configuration under cover of darkness for missions in Syria, and their radar echoes will be feint and infrequent to the point of escaping attention. You can see how sensitive Americans are when it comes to deciding whom to provide these jet fighters and are rejecting orders from countries which are fielding Russian S-400 systems to begin with. The fact that they are not concerned about Egyptian IADS coverage in the region is very telling. They also have confidence in professionalism of IDF.

---

F-35 is exceedingly capable in the EW spectrum – much more so than even French Rafale because EW suite is not merely one of the components in F-35 but at the very essence of its core (integrated architecture) since it must reconcile diverse signals with the requirement to remain stealthy and continuously utilize other on-board systems such as digital datalinks. That architecture differs greatly from the looser, “federated” architectures of last-generation fighters, because those aircraft were not designed to be stealthy. Once you decide you want to be invisible to enemy radar and other sensors, though, every emission your plane generates has to be carefully controlled. So even the turbofan engine on the F-35 is designed to limit its reflectivity to radar and the heat of its exhaust.

Read and learn.

The F-35 Isn't Just 'Stealthy': Here's How Its Electronic Warfare System Gives It An Edge

Public reference is seldom made to the fighter's formidable electronic warfare system, but it's those capabilities combined with its better known integrated stealth design that make F-35 the most unbeatable combat aircraft ever built. Here's what's known about its EW capabilities.

www.forbes.com

F-35's Most Sinister Capability Are Towed Decoys That Unreel From Inside Its Stealthy Skin

These "little buddies" not only protect the jet, but they can be used creatively to goad the enemy into showing itself and dying as a result.

www.thedrive.com

The range of AN/ASQ-239 EW suite exceeds 900 KM by the way.

The PDF answers a lot of these questions..Slide by slide..

http://nic-rezonans.ru/wp-content/uploads/2020/08/eng-rls-resonance-n.pdf

Besides that..Radar is the sensor with the longest range and the greatest accuracy. Hence stealth is primarily meant to defeat radar rather than optical sensors such as IR or visible band imaging devices. But radars operate in many different bands and it is impossible to escape detection by all of them. Stealth designs are therefore optimised to defeat higher frequency radars that use the X (8-12 GHz) and S (2-4 GHz) bands, which are the most common for target acquisition. They usually cannot be made invisible to low frequency radars such as those in the VHF (50-330 MHz) or UHF (300-1,000 MHz) bands. Lower frequency implies longer wavelength. There is a ‘step change’ in an aircraft’s signature once the wavelength exceeds a certain threshold and causes a resonant effect. Typically, such resonance occurs when any feature on the aircraft is less than eight times the size of a particular wavelength, as happens with the tail-fin of a fighter.

V/UHF radars have good chances of detecting stealth aircraft. Since their wavelength (1-2 m) is of around the same magnitude as the prominent features on many stealth jets, their signal is echoed by a resonant effect that is unaffected by stealth shaping or RAM coatings. Radars of this type were always unpopular because they had poor resolution, picked up “noise” such as clouds and rain and were unsuitable for fire-control or terminal guidance. However, in view of their strong counter-stealth credentials, there is now renewed emphasis on perfecting such radars.. hence the Rezonans-N..

The best way to defeat stealth is probably a network of V/UHF Active Electronically Scanned Array (AESA) radar systems, all connected by high-speed data-links. Improved thermal sensors and visible band imaging devices can also provide useful inputs. Using advanced networking technology and high-speed computers, the data can be speedily collected, analysed and disseminated, to identify the presence of stealth aircraft and generate a weapons grade track. While radar-guided missiles may not be useful against stealth jets, interceptor aircraft could be vectored in by the AD radar and then launch their IR homing AAMs. As for the IR signature, even if the engine heat emissions are shielded from a particular angle, the heat generated by friction as the aircraft passes through the atmosphere, can help a heat-seeking missile to home on to the target. And most Russian combat aircraft are equipped with excellent IR detectors..

Stealth platforms are not optimised to produce the lowest signature from every angle – the emphasis is usually on the head-on aspect. So another defensive technique is to position several radars to illumine the target from the front, the sides and above using high-altitude surveillance Unmanned Aerial Vehicles (UAV) or Airborne Warning and Control System (AWACS) aircraft plus satellite surveillance and to then integrate all the data to obtain as accurate a track as possible..

http://www.indiandefencereview.com/...hnology-the-race-to-see-through-invisibility/

 

[LeGenD]

The PDF answers a lot of these questions..Slide by slide..

http://nic-rezonans.ru/wp-content/uploads/2020/08/eng-rls-resonance-n.pdf

Besides that..Radar is the sensor with the longest range and the greatest accuracy. Hence stealth is primarily meant to defeat radar rather than optical sensors such as IR or visible band imaging devices. But radars operate in many different bands and it is impossible to escape detection by all of them. Stealth designs are therefore optimised to defeat higher frequency radars that use the X (8-12 GHz) and S (2-4 GHz) bands, which are the most common for target acquisition. They usually cannot be made invisible to low frequency radars such as those in the VHF (50-330 MHz) or UHF (300-1,000 MHz) bands. Lower frequency implies longer wavelength. There is a ‘step change’ in an aircraft’s signature once the wavelength exceeds a certain threshold and causes a resonant effect. Typically, such resonance occurs when any feature on the aircraft is less than eight times the size of a particular wavelength, as happens with the tail-fin of a fighter.

V/UHF radars have good chances of detecting stealth aircraft. Since their wavelength (1-2 m) is of around the same magnitude as the prominent features on many stealth jets, their signal is echoed by a resonant effect that is unaffected by stealth shaping or RAM coatings. Radars of this type were always unpopular because they had poor resolution, picked up “noise” such as clouds and rain and were unsuitable for fire-control or terminal guidance. However, in view of their strong counter-stealth credentials, there is now renewed emphasis on perfecting such radars.. hence the Rezonans-N..

The best way to defeat stealth is probably a network of V/UHF Active Electronically Scanned Array (AESA) radar systems, all connected by high-speed data-links. Improved thermal sensors and visible band imaging devices can also provide useful inputs. Using advanced networking technology and high-speed computers, the data can be speedily collected, analysed and disseminated, to identify the presence of stealth aircraft and generate a weapons grade track. While radar-guided missiles may not be useful against stealth jets, interceptor aircraft could be vectored in by the AD radar and then launch their IR homing AAMs. As for the IR signature, even if the engine heat emissions are shielded from a particular angle, the heat generated by friction as the aircraft passes through the atmosphere, can help a heat-seeking missile to home on to the target. And most Russian combat aircraft are equipped with excellent IR detectors..

Stealth platforms are not optimised to produce the lowest signature from every angle – the emphasis is usually on the head-on aspect. So another defensive technique is to position several radars to illumine the target from the front, the sides and above using high-altitude surveillance Unmanned Aerial Vehicles (UAV) or Airborne Warning and Control System (AWACS) aircraft plus satellite surveillance and to then integrate all the data to obtain as accurate a track as possible..

http://www.indiandefencereview.com/...hnology-the-race-to-see-through-invisibility/

This is merely copy paste information with some FALSE assumptions in the mix. I provided answers in my previous post - not questions. The information that I shared can be difficult to digest in one go (understandable).

Let us revisit some points below.

Besides that..Radar is the sensor with the longest range and the greatest accuracy. Hence stealth is primarily meant to defeat radar rather than optical sensors such as IR or visible band imaging devices.

Stealthy applications are not limited to RCS reduction measures but expand to IR reduction*, Acoustics reduction**, and even Optics reduction regimes***. All of these measures are accounted for in development of a true VLO class aircraft and beyond.

*Refer to the (3.6. IR/Thermal reduction measures - Covering the tracks) section in the following thread: https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/misconceptions-about-the-global-hawk-uav-and-vlo-concepts.675960/

**Related information in the following link: https://www.popularmechanics.com/military/aviation/a24484/b-2-stealth-bomber-flyby/

***Why do you think that numerous stealthy aircraft have BLACKISH appearance? To blend with darkness (nighttime conditions).

"Stealth designers addressed seven types of observable signatures: radar, infrared, visual, contrails, engine smoke, acoustic, and electromagnetic. Reduction of the critical radar cross section was achieved with 90 percent by shaping of the aircraft and 10 percent by radar-absorbent materials."

More information in the following link: https://www.airforcemag.com/article/history-of-stealth-from-out-of-the-shadows/

Stealthy applications do not suggest "invisibility in absolute terms" but the agenda is to DELAY DETECTION from virtually any perspective to the extent possible and make it impractical for an IADS to live up to its theoretical performance levels in relation. By the time DETECTION is feasible, it will be too late for the operators on the ground to do much about it.

Do you even realize that small crude UAVs are making life hell for numerous military assets on the surface in recent/ongoing conflicts, let alone VLO class strike platforms? Remember Abqaiq oil refinery incident in KSA? This wasn't a lightly guarded space to begin with.

But radars operate in many different bands and it is impossible to escape detection by all of them. Stealth designs are therefore optimised to defeat higher frequency radars that use the X (8-12 GHz) and S (2-4 GHz) bands, which are the most common for target acquisition. They usually cannot be made invisible to low frequency radars such as those in the VHF (50-330 MHz) or UHF (300-1,000 MHz) bands. Lower frequency implies longer wavelength. There is a ‘step change’ in an aircraft’s signature once the wavelength exceeds a certain threshold and causes a resonant effect. Typically, such resonance occurs when any feature on the aircraft is less than eight times the size of a particular wavelength, as happens with the tail-fin of a fighter.

Blue highlight = Key word is "usually" which is not definitive.

Red highlight = In my previous post, I explained WHAT are the "resonance effects," WHEN and HOW these effects materialize, and WHAT measures can be adopted to defeat these effects. Do I really need to re-post same points?

VLO can be achieved across all frequency bands and not only in the higher frequency bands.

• Consider sawtoothed shaping patterns on the surface of B-2A Spirit, F-22A Raptor and F-35 Lightning II respectively. You will notice these patterns in certain spots - where resonant effects are very likely to materialize when the frame is subjected to Resonant/Mie scattering regime.

• Consider RAM applications to counter resonant effects (applied on the frame, particularly in spots/locations which facilitate resonant effects):

• Consider radar waves absorbing layers (beneath the frame):

CLASSIFIED domain in large part.

The best way to defeat stealth is probably a network of V/UHF Active Electronically Scanned Array (AESA) radar systems, all connected by high-speed data-links. Improved thermal sensors and visible band imaging devices can also provide useful inputs. Using advanced networking technology and high-speed computers, the data can be speedily collected, analysed and disseminated, to identify the presence of stealth aircraft and generate a weapons grade track. While radar-guided missiles may not be useful against stealth jets, interceptor aircraft could be vectored in by the AD radar and then launch their IR homing AAMs. As for the IR signature, even if the engine heat emissions are shielded from a particular angle, the heat generated by friction as the aircraft passes through the atmosphere, can help a heat-seeking missile to home on to the target. And most Russian combat aircraft are equipped with excellent IR detectors.

EVEN Early Warning rings drastically shorten for a true VLO class strike platform (e.g. B-2A Spirit):

From one of the links shared above:

"Stealth, also known as “low observable” technology, still conveys an overwhelming combat advantage. It reduces exposure by a full range of signatures—electromagnetic, infrared, visual, and acoustic—but the main one is radar.

Stealth makes an object seem smaller on the radar screen by diffusing the reflection of the beam instead of bouncing it directly back to the radar receiver. Fighters and bombers with low radar cross sections can get close to their targets before they are detected. Nonstealthy aircraft pitted against stealthy opponents will almost certainly be shot down."

Do not expect miracles from Russian and Chinese marketed solutions in this matter. Even the Cooperative Engagement Capability (CEC) of the USN is exceedingly complex and costly SOLUTION for starters and cannot be ported to IADS on land to same effect and matching density.

Stealth platforms are not optimised to produce the lowest signature from every angle – the emphasis is usually on the head-on aspect. So another defensive technique is to position several radars to illumine the target from the front, the sides and above using high-altitude surveillance Unmanned Aerial Vehicles (UAV) or Airborne Warning and Control System (AWACS) aircraft plus satellite surveillance and to then integrate all the data to obtain as accurate a track as possible..

The philosophy of all-aspect stealth suggest otherwise.

American VLO class strike platforms did not materialize out of the blue - these designs benefited tremendously from supercomputers capable of calculating far more permutations of radar reflection (and from multiple directions) which were missing during the course of development of earlier generations of stealthy aircraft including F-117A Nighthawk.

Both B-2A and F-22A achieved all-aspect stealth - not approved for EXPORT for good reason.

"We are operating regularly in Iraq and Syria. The F-22A's advanced sensors and low-observable characteristics enable us to operate much closer to non-coalition surface-to-air missiles and fighter aircraft with little risk of detection." - identity of pilot withheld.

The F-35 - although approved for EXPORT - will not disappoint in this matter either.

 

[The SC]

This is merely copy paste information with some FALSE assumptions in the mix. I provided answers in my previous post - not questions. The information that I shared can be difficult to digest in one go (understandable).

Let us revisit some points below.



Stealthy applications are not limited to RCS reduction measures but expand to IR reduction*, Acoustics reduction**, and even Optics reduction regimes***. All of these measures are accounted for in development of a true VLO class aircraft and beyond.

*Refer to the (3.6. IR/Thermal reduction measures - Covering the tracks) section in the following thread: https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/misconceptions-about-the-global-hawk-uav-and-vlo-concepts.675960/

**Related information in the following link: https://www.popularmechanics.com/military/aviation/a24484/b-2-stealth-bomber-flyby/

***Why do you think that numerous stealthy aircraft have BLACKISH appearance? To blend with darkness (nighttime conditions).

"Stealth designers addressed seven types of observable signatures: radar, infrared, visual, contrails, engine smoke, acoustic, and electromagnetic. Reduction of the critical radar cross section was achieved with 90 percent by shaping of the aircraft and 10 percent by radar-absorbent materials."

More information in the following link: https://www.airforcemag.com/article/history-of-stealth-from-out-of-the-shadows/

Stealthy applications do not suggest "invisibility in absolute terms" but the agenda is to DELAY DETECTION from virtually any perspective to the extent possible and make it impractical for an IADS to live up to its theoretical performance levels in relation. By the time DETECTION is feasible, it will be too late for the operators on the ground to do much about it.

Do you even realize that small crude UAVs are making life hell for numerous military assets on the surface in recent/ongoing conflicts, let alone VLO class strike platforms? Remember Abqaiq oil refinery incident in KSA? This wasn't a lightly guarded space to begin with.



Blue highlight = Key word is "usually" which is not definitive.

Red highlight = In my previous post, I explained WHAT are the "resonance effects," WHEN and HOW these effects materialize, and WHAT measures can be adopted to defeat these effects. Do I really need to re-post same points?

VLO can be achieved across all frequency bands and not only in the higher frequency bands.

• Consider sawtoothed shaping patterns on the surface of B-2A Spirit, F-22A Raptor and F-35 Lightning II respectively. You will notice these patterns in certain spots - where resonant effects are very likely to materialize when the frame is subjected to Resonant/Mie scattering regime.

• Consider RAM applications to counter resonant effects (applied on the frame, particularly in spots/locations which facilitate resonant effects):

• Consider radar waves absorbing layers (beneath the frame):

CLASSIFIED domain in large part.



EVEN Early Warning rings drastically shorten for a true VLO class strike platform (e.g. B-2A Spirit):

From one of the links shared above:

"Stealth, also known as “low observable” technology, still conveys an overwhelming combat advantage. It reduces exposure by a full range of signatures—electromagnetic, infrared, visual, and acoustic—but the main one is radar.

Stealth makes an object seem smaller on the radar screen by diffusing the reflection of the beam instead of bouncing it directly back to the radar receiver. Fighters and bombers with low radar cross sections can get close to their targets before they are detected. Nonstealthy aircraft pitted against stealthy opponents will almost certainly be shot down."

Do not expect miracles from Russian and Chinese marketed solutions in this matter. Even the Cooperative Engagement Capability (CEC) of the USN is exceedingly complex and costly SOLUTION for starters and cannot be ported to IADS on land to same effect and matching density.


The philosophy of all-aspect stealth suggest otherwise.

American VLO class strike platforms did not materialize out of the blue - these designs benefited tremendously from supercomputers capable of calculating far more permutations of radar reflection (and from multiple directions) which were missing during the course of development of earlier generations of stealthy aircraft including F-117A Nighthawk.

Both B-2A and F-22A achieved all-aspect stealth - not approved for EXPORT for good reason.

"We are operating regularly in Iraq and Syria. The F-22A's advanced sensors and low-observable characteristics enable us to operate much closer to non-coalition surface-to-air missiles and fighter aircraft with little risk of detection." - identity of pilot withheld.

The F-35 - although approved for EXPORT - will not disappoint in this matter either.

That is a lot of copy paste..lol

BTW Abqaiq oil refinery wasn't guarded because the only country that could attack it was Iran and it would have been a declaration of war.. but they did it from Iraq through proxies and lost General Suleimany in the process..

Anyway we are talking about a very specific anti stealth technology..or rather a combination of technologies in the Rezonans-N system.. among them Artificial intelligence and the Phased antenna array that significantly expands the capabilities of the complex, and the locator can automatically exchange data with other radars. At the same time, the radar is capable of tracking over 500 targets, providing early warning of an air attack and providing information about the air situation to aviation and anti-aircraft defense systems during combat operations.

The Rezonans-NE very high frequency [VHF] counter-stealth early warning phased-array radar is designed to effectively detect a wide range of current and future air targets, including low-observable cruise and ballistic missiles, hypersonic aerial vehicles, as well as stealthy ones, in severe electronic countermeasures (ECM) and clutter environment.

https://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/russia/rezonans-n.htm

 

[LeGenD]

That is a lot of copy paste..lol

Don't BS me with 'copy paste' accusation which is your post # 20 in essence. There is difference between merely copy pasting information and constructing an argument - you are incapable of distinguishing these two let alone be in the position to understand/digest information shared in post # 19 and otherwise.

BTW Abqaiq oil refinery wasn't guarded because the only country that could attack it was Iran and it would have been a declaration of war.. but they did it from Iraq through proxies and lost General Suleimany in the process..

FALSE

Source: https://t-intell.com/2019/09/18/this-is-how-iran-bombed-saudi-arabia-preliminary-assessment/

THAT is a stark reminder to not underestimate a sophisticated strike package with good execution strategy in the mix, and FAILURE/LIMITATION of surface defenses.

Historically - surface defenses are/were found to be 30% effective at defeating intrusive threats (average = 15%). Even most capable surface defenses in the world are rated 50% effective for the needful.

If a sophisticated strike package had come from USAF (assumption) - your surface defenses would have been TOAST as well.

Please step down from that high horse of yours and try to be HUMBLE in your statements/assertions.

Anyway we are talking about a very specific anti stealth technology..or rather a combination of technologies in the Rezonans-N system.. among them Artificial intelligence and the Phased antenna array that significantly expands the capabilities of the complex, and the locator can automatically exchange data with other radars. At the same time, the radar is capable of tracking over 500 targets, providing early warning of an air attack and providing information about the air situation to aviation and anti-aircraft defense systems during combat operations.

You make it sound like that Resonance-NE system is something unique? It is not.

Artificial Intelligence = RCS computation algorithms and higher levels of automation in functions (this is increasingly common feature of sophisticated radar systems in use - tell me something new).

AI will also conform to Principles of Physics or it will waste expensive munitions chasing ghosts in the sky. Go back to post # 19 and try to comprehend what was mentioned in it.

Phased Antenna Array = Every sophisticated radar system have these including YJ-27 class.

The Rezonans-NE very high frequency [VHF] counter-stealth early warning phased-array radar is designed to effectively detect a wide range of current and future air targets, including low-observable cruise and ballistic missiles, hypersonic aerial vehicles, as well as stealthy ones, in severe electronic countermeasures (ECM) and clutter environment.

https://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/russia/rezonans-n.htm

YAWN

 

[The SC]

Don't BS me with 'copy paste' accusation which is your post # 20 in essence. There is difference between merely copy pasting information and constructing an argument - you are incapable of distinguishing these two let alone be in the position to understand/digest information shared in post # 19 and otherwise.


FALSE

Source: https://t-intell.com/2019/09/18/this-is-how-iran-bombed-saudi-arabia-preliminary-assessment/

THAT is a stark reminder to not underestimate a sophisticated strike package with good execution strategy in the mix, and FAILURE/LIMITATION of surface defenses.

Historically - surface defenses are/were found to be 30% effective at defeating intrusive threats (average = 15%). Even most capable surface defenses in the world are rated 50% effective for the needful.

If a sophisticated strike package had come from USAF (assumption) - your surface defenses would have been TOAST as well.

Please step down from that high horse of yours and try to be HUMBLE in your statements/assertions.



You make it sound like that Resonance-NE system is something unique? It is not.

Artificial Intelligence = RCS computation algorithms and higher levels of automation in functions (this is increasingly common feature of sophisticated radar systems in use - tell me something new).

AI will also conform to Principles of Physics or it will waste expensive munitions chasing ghosts in the sky. Go back to post # 19 and try to comprehend what was mentioned in it.

Phased Antenna Array = Every sophisticated radar system have these including YJ-27 class.


YAWN

It shows you are trying to win an argument by all means.. while the matter is simple..don't try to complicate it..there are thousands of papers and articles about stealth and anti-stealth radars..we can argue for a year here and it won't do any good more than those papers and articles from where you copy paste and use as arguments..So don't personalize this..not expected from a "Moderator"..

 

[LeGenD]

It shows you are trying to win an argument by all means.. while the matter is simple..don't try to complicate it..there are thousands of papers and articles about stealth and anti-stealth radars..we can argue for a year here and it won't do any good more than those papers and articles from where you copy paste and use as arguments..So don't personalize this..not expected from a "Moderator"..

Why do you not follow your own advice and not repeat similar set-of-arguments which happen to be addressed/debunked in this thread? I have adequately expanded on the 'resonance effects' part and also pointed out how these effects can be minimized in practice. Of-course, you cannot expect this kind of information in Russian brochures and such.

I am only into addressing misconceptions which I may stumble upon - be these yours.

You are unnecessarily dragging this conversation now. This is a slippery slope, mind you. There is no compulsion upon you to respond further so leave this be.

 

[The SC]

"Resonance-NE" in Egypt

 

[The SC]

I know this brother, i would prefer Egypt manufactures its own in the future for itself, and allies.

Egypt has participated in some of these satellites and also building its owns..step by step..

 

[Gomig-21]

I've been meaning to get back into this thread but I keep getting distracted and didn't even realize it went into a 2nd page and missed some of these posts. And while @LeGenD brings it to the table, I think there are cooling points to tackle in his overwhelming American stealth be all end all outlook on its ability to defeat any type of electromagnetic wave in radars and in particular, the Resonance-NE and the resonance effect. We can certainly simplify things just a little bit for the sake of making everyone understand what we're talking about here.

Dear,

I hold Egypt and its armed forces in high regard in personal capacity. I am not asserting that Egypt made the wrong call by fielding Russian Resonance-NE radar system; I believe that this is good long-term investment. Something better than nothing, right?

That's awfully generous of you! Seriously, though, it's A LOT more than just something better than nothing I mean that's borderline spitting on the effort. Mind you, I know the outlook is the losing side of Arabs and Egypt against Israel and the veritable Israeli army with the US' help and technology is something to behold.........and so the tendency is strongly affected to do exactly what you just did in such (and I'm not saying this in an attacking manner, just being truthful) a condescending and demeaning way because you've been steered to believing that and never giving anyone else in the mix the effort to understand what they're doing and if there is any credibility to it. We just hack away at it because hey, after all, we're talking about American ingenuity in stealth put in the hands of the invincible and mighty Israeli military going against the hapless Egyptian don't stand a chance don't know what they're doing military. Right? Am I right? lol, come on, you know I'm right!

What's happening is that you're lacking the effort to analyze both sides and the efforts made by both sides. For example, that video you posted about the Israelis fighters taking out a Syrian radar and the presumptions you make just based on that is frankly absurd, ma man. I don't think you've even taken a minute to assess and understand the level and the manner in which the Egyptian air defense network has set up its surveillance and radar and the type of missiles it's using along with the early warning assets it possesses and how they're interconnected and linked. I'm certain that factor is missing from your vast knowledge of this subject.

I am simply sticking to my original perspective - "Too much hype, and RCS Figures are not realistic." I have provided ample explanation in this post above.

And I actually agreed with you to a certain extent. I said it's quite possible that those RCS numbers are blown way out of proportion because I am looking at things objectively and with reason, not bias...

You need to be mindful of the Line-of-Sight factor in this case. Secondly, there is too much NOISE/CLUTTER on the surface to keep tabs on aircraft taking off and landing on military bases many miles away. These spaces are also expected to be equipped with jamming technologies to suppress incoming radar waves.

Stop right there for a second because I think with such a complicated subject as this, it's important to break it down into one subject at a time instead of piling them all into one paragraph. So as I move on, I'm going to leave out jamming and EW factors for now and just concentrate on the resonance radar and the stealth attribute of the aircraft, in this case, the F-35. We'll get back to the jamming no doubt because it's an important factor of all of this.

Israel is known to utilize its F-35i in VLO configuration under cover of darkness for missions in Syria, and their radar echoes will be feint and infrequent to the point of escaping attention. You can see how sensitive Americans are when it comes to deciding whom to provide these jet fighters and are rejecting orders from countries which are fielding Russian S-400 systems to begin with. The fact that they are not concerned about Egyptian IADS coverage in the region is very telling. They also have confidence in professionalism of IDF.

I will only focus on the last part of your comment there for now because it's actually pretty funny and kinda exposes you a little bit, my friend. Sorry to say but there is a little bit of gullability there. You're talking about when Netanyahu was asked if he was worried that Egypt had bought the S-300VM and he said no, not at all or not worried about it whatsoever, right? Honestly, did you really expect him to say anything differently? Let's say they are worried just hypothetically, do you think he would ever admit to being worried even a tiny bit?

Let me tell you something, many on this forum kiss up and suck up to the Israelis because of all this kinda crap they read and hear but no one, not even the Palestinians know them and their ways of deceit and propaganda and behavior about war and military than us Egyptians. I'm not saying this for some stupid ego-driven reason. I don't do that childish crap. I'm being serious here in that we've fought them more than anyone and regardless of what anyone thinks, had tremendous success against them in the last go-around but with all decades of fighting and dealing with them, we've learned the most about how they fake things and how they don't and I can assure you that he would never admit that he's concerned about Egypt buying the S-300VM system and not just that, the IRIS-T_SL SAM system from Germany as well as the Protivnik-GE which all 3 work in congruence with one another.

Also, there is a diplomatic factor here. We don't answer these types of questions based strictly on a military perspective!? Are you kidding me?! That would be the most childish thing ever. There is a high degree of diplomacy between the two countries since we are at peace with one another and because of that reason, of course there would never be any reason to worry about us acquiring the S-300 just like there isn't a single reason for us to give two flying hoots about them getting 50 F-35s. We're at peace, or is that not something that needs to be respected in this day and age? And should we be discussing things to reporters as if we're ready to fight a war?!?!? lol, of course not! Surprised you didn't take any of these things into account.

Don't forget, this is the same country that jumps up and down in severe temper tantrums the minute any advanced weapon is introduced to congress to be sold to Egypt!!! Why do you suppose the AIM-120 is in Pakistan and not in Egypt?!?!! looool. These are all the things I'm surprised you haven't taken into consideration.

Red highlight = In my previous post, I explained WHAT are the "resonance effects," WHEN and HOW these effects materialize, and WHAT measures can be adopted to defeat these effects. Do I really need to re-post same points?

So you talked mostly about all the stealthy (specifically VLO) elements that are taken into account on US stealth fighters such as the F-35 from shaping to RAM and how mostly those two defeat the resonance effect.

Let's simplify things a little bit when we go into how resonance radar and EM wavelengths work with the Resonance-NE. Since resonance radars work primarily in the long wavelength pattern, specifically the 1 meter wavelength, they work best against stealthy targets simply because:

One meter wavelengths are longer wavelengths hammering a very small RCS and by being a longer wavelength bouncing off a very small target i.e. the small RCS since some of the long wavelengths have already been scattered due to shaping, the remaining wavelength still bouncing off the target creates or induces harmonics within that remaining wave length and those harmonics create varied RETURN waves that are long and short which give more discernable information on the target that can then be categorized. Once that unique return is seen often enough and in specific instances and locations and is recognized in a pattern effect, it's then categorized which is essential because now it has an identifiable characteristic. That is how resonance works in a very simplified, layman way since it's actually a very complex subject.

So what Egypt is doing all this time is gathering a monumental amount of information as we speak and argue on this forum on a daily basis and constantly inputting all this information and categorizing it in computers that will recognize it in micro-seconds and go into the next plan of action. For F-35s, F-15s, F-16s and for all sorts of other military assets on the other side.

This is what an individual who is very well-informed about radars in general and his background is very strong in physics and quantum mechanics said about resonance radars and their ability to work against stealthy targets. Give this a read. If anything, I think you will enjoy it quite a bit simply because of the extent of how informative it is:

Just as materials can resonate at certain vibrational frequencies (e.g. Tacoma Narrows bridge incident), they can also vibrate in the EM realm as well. All materials absorb since there are no perfect reflectors (and absorbers outside of black holes if they exist).

One meter radar EM waves will go through materials including metal. The Faraday cage effect from electrostatics applies to some extent but since scanning waves are not some steady state illumination and include a magnetic component they will penetrate the skin of the aircraft (with attenuation due to absorption and scatter). Even the skin of the aircraft is a source of resonance harmonics and it does not have to be just the frame, the engines or other "volume filling" objects.

So think of the targeted aircraft as absorbing the 1 meter radar waves and then emitting a broad spectrum of waves with both shorter and longer wavelengths compared to the scanning radar beam. Being resonance harmonics, they do not form a continuous spectrum of emissions but are organized in spikes depending on the characteristics of the aircraft. So different aircraft will give different spectra
of resonance emissions but likely not wildly different. So the return signal that the radar system needs to process is not 1 meter original wavelength scanning beam scatter, but new wavelengths likely to form from resonance in the aircraft body. This requires testing with targets to figure out what bands to detect for resonance return signal.

A detail that should be mentioned is that the amplitude of the scanning beam can be cranked up to produce a better return signal. No amount of RAM coating will save you from this. And no RAM coating works 100%. In fact, since RAM is an absorber it must be an emitter (in some other wavelengths). So the aircraft will still be exposed to EM waves induced by the original radar scanning beam and will produce harmonics in some other bands compared to what the radar beam itself would directly induce. Regardless, cranking up the scanning beam amplitude returns a "cornucopia" of resonance EM emissions that one could detect if one looked for them.

By contrast, using passive IR emissions does not allow you do dial the return signal since the source of those IR emissions is independent of the radar (no longer radar really) system. Also, IR is scattered and blocked by clouds and fogs more effectively than radar and at least some of the resonance harmonics.

Might have to sleep on that a little bit lol.

 

[The SC]

I've been meaning to get back into this thread but I keep getting distracted and didn't even realize it went into a 2nd page and missed some of these posts. And while @LeGenD brings it to the table, I think there are cooling points to tackle in his overwhelming American stealth be all end all outlook on its ability to defeat any type of electromagnetic wave in radars and in particular, the Resonance-NE and the resonance effect. We can certainly simplify things just a little bit for the sake of making everyone understand what we're talking about here.



That's awfully generous of you! Seriously, though, it's A LOT more than just something better than nothing I mean that's borderline spitting on the effort. Mind you, I know the outlook is the losing side of Arabs and Egypt against Israel and the veritable Israeli army with the US' help and technology is something to behold.........and so the tendency is strongly affected to do exactly what you just did in such (and I'm not saying this in an attacking manner, just being truthful) a condescending and demeaning way because you've been steered to believing that and never giving anyone else in the mix the effort to understand what they're doing and if there is any credibility to it. We just hack away at it because hey, after all, we're talking about American ingenuity in stealth put in the hands of the invincible and mighty Israeli military going against the hapless Egyptian don't stand a chance don't know what they're doing military. Right? Am I right? lol, come on, you know I'm right!

What's happening is that you're lacking the effort to analyze both sides and the efforts made by both sides. For example, that video you posted about the Israelis fighters taking out a Syrian radar and the presumptions you make just based on that is frankly absurd, ma man. I don't think you've even taken a minute to assess and understand the level and the manner in which the Egyptian air defense network has set up its surveillance and radar and the type of missiles it's using along with the early warning assets it possesses and how they're interconnected and linked. I'm certain that factor is missing from your vast knowledge of this subject.



And I actually agreed with you to a certain extent. I said it's quite possible that those RCS numbers are blown way out of proportion because I am looking at things objectively and with reason, not bias...



Stop right there for a second because I think with such a complicated subject as this, it's important to break it down into one subject at a time instead of piling them all into one paragraph. So as I move on, I'm going to leave out jamming and EW factors for now and just concentrate on the resonance radar and the stealth attribute of the aircraft, in this case, the F-35. We'll get back to the jamming no doubt because it's an important factor of all of this.



I will only focus on the last part of your comment there for now because it's actually pretty funny and kinda exposes you a little bit, my friend. Sorry to say but there is a little bit of gullability there. You're talking about when Netanyahu was asked if he was worried that Egypt had bought the S-300VM and he said no, not at all or not worried about it whatsoever, right? Honestly, did you really expect him to say anything differently? Let's say they are worried just hypothetically, do you think he would ever admit to being worried even a tiny bit?

Let me tell you something, many on this forum kiss up and suck up to the Israelis because of all this kinda crap they read and hear but no one, not even the Palestinians know them and their ways of deceit and propaganda and behavior about war and military than us Egyptians. I'm not saying this for some stupid ego-driven reason. I don't do that childish crap. I'm being serious here in that we've fought them more than anyone and regardless of what anyone thinks, had tremendous success against them in the last go-around but with all decades of fighting and dealing with them, we've learned the most about how they fake things and how they don't and I can assure you that he would never admit that he's concerned about Egypt buying the S-300VM system and not just that, the IRIS-T_SL SAM system from Germany as well as the Protivnik-GE which all 3 work in congruence with one another.

Also, there is a diplomatic factor here. We don't answer these types of questions based strictly on a military perspective!? Are you kidding me?! That would be the most childish thing ever. There is a high degree of diplomacy between the two countries since we are at peace with one another and because of that reason, of course there would never be any reason to worry about us acquiring the S-300 just like there isn't a single reason for us to give two flying hoots about them getting 50 F-35s. We're at peace, or is that not something that needs to be respected in this day and age? And should we be discussing things to reporters as if we're ready to fight a war?!?!? lol, of course not! Surprised you didn't take any of these things into account.

Don't forget, this is the same country that jumps up and down in severe temper tantrums the minute any advanced weapon is introduced to congress to be sold to Egypt!!! Why do you suppose the AIM-120 is in Pakistan and not in Egypt?!?!! looool. These are all the things I'm surprised you haven't taken into consideration.



So you talked mostly about all the stealthy (specifically VLO) elements that are taken into account on US stealth fighters such as the F-35 from shaping to RAM and how mostly those two defeat the resonance effect.

Let's simplify things a little bit when we go into how resonance radar and EM wavelengths work with the Resonance-NE. Since resonance radars work primarily in the long wavelength pattern, specifically the 1 meter wavelength, they work best against stealthy targets simply because:

One meter wavelengths are longer wavelengths hammering a very small RCS and by being a longer wavelength bouncing off a very small target i.e. the small RCS since some of the long wavelengths have already been scattered due to shaping, the remaining wavelength still bouncing off the target creates or induces harmonics within that remaining wave length and those harmonics create varied RETURN waves that are long and short which give more discernable information on the target that can then be categorized. Once that unique return is seen often enough and in specific instances and locations and is recognized in a pattern effect, it's then categorized which is essential because now it has an identifiable characteristic. That is how resonance works in a very simplified, layman way since it's actually a very complex subject.

So what Egypt is doing all this time is gathering a monumental amount of information as we speak and argue on this forum on a daily basis and constantly inputting all this information and categorizing it in computers that will recognize it in micro-seconds and go into the next plan of action. For F-35s, F-15s, F-16s and for all sorts of other military assets on the other side.

This is what an individual who is very well-informed about radars in general and his background is very strong in physics and quantum mechanics said about resonance radars and their ability to work against stealthy targets. Give this a read. If anything, I think you will enjoy it quite a bit simply because of the extent of how informative it is:

Just as materials can resonate at certain vibrational frequencies (e.g. Tacoma Narrows bridge incident), they can also vibrate in the EM realm as well. All materials absorb since there are no perfect reflectors (and absorbers outside of black holes if they exist).

One meter radar EM waves will go through materials including metal. The Faraday cage effect from electrostatics applies to some extent but since scanning waves are not some steady state illumination and include a magnetic component they will penetrate the skin of the aircraft (with attenuation due to absorption and scatter). Even the skin of the aircraft is a source of resonance harmonics and it does not have to be just the frame, the engines or other "volume filling" objects.

So think of the targeted aircraft as absorbing the 1 meter radar waves and then emitting a broad spectrum of waves with both shorter and longer wavelengths compared to the scanning radar beam. Being resonance harmonics, they do not form a continuous spectrum of emissions but are organized in spikes depending on the characteristics of the aircraft. So different aircraft will give different spectra
of resonance emissions but likely not wildly different. So the return signal that the radar system needs to process is not 1 meter original wavelength scanning beam scatter, but new wavelengths likely to form from resonance in the aircraft body. This requires testing with targets to figure out what bands to detect for resonance return signal.

A detail that should be mentioned is that the amplitude of the scanning beam can be cranked up to produce a better return signal. No amount of RAM coating will save you from this. And no RAM coating works 100%. In fact, since RAM is an absorber it must be an emitter (in some other wavelengths). So the aircraft will still be exposed to EM waves induced by the original radar scanning beam and will produce harmonics in some other bands compared to what the radar beam itself would directly induce. Regardless, cranking up the scanning beam amplitude returns a "cornucopia" of resonance EM emissions that one could detect if one looked for them.

By contrast, using passive IR emissions does not allow you do dial the return signal since the source of those IR emissions is independent of the radar (no longer radar really) system. Also, IR is scattered and blocked by clouds and fogs more effectively than radar and at least some of the resonance harmonics.

Might have to sleep on that a little bit lol.

These simple facts are a good addition to your interesting post:

The Radar emits electromagnetic waves at certain frequencies close to the natural frequency of the fuselage protons, especially stealth aircraft. Stealth aircraft are designed to absorb radar waves and this will help the radar detect them.

When the plane absorbs these waves, the protons of the material that the plane is made of, or rather the RAM coating protons, absorb the radar energy and are excited. And after the radar waves are cut off, the protons return to their normal position and release the energy that was absorbed, and here comes the role of the radar receiver and processor that separates and analyzes the resonant frequencies from other waves normally reflected from another object or reflected without the phenomenon of resonance.

By the way, this is a very brief explanation, and this is almost the principle of the magnetic resonance imaging MRI device as it stimulates the protons of a human body and takes advantage of the body stored energy of radio waves and re-sending it to measure and create accurate images.

 

[Gomig-21]

These simple facts are a good addition to your interesting post:

The Radar emits electromagnetic waves at certain frequencies close to the natural frequency of the fuselage protons, especially stealth aircraft. Stealth aircraft are designed to absorb radar waves and this will help the radar detect them.

When the plane absorbs these waves, the protons of the material that the plane is made of, or rather the RAM coating protons, absorb the radar energy and are excited. And after the radar waves are cut off, the protons return to their normal position and release the energy that was absorbed, and here comes the role of the radar receiver and processor that separates and analyzes the resonant frequencies from other waves normally reflected from another object or reflected without the phenomenon of resonance.

By the way, this is a very brief explanation, and this is almost the principle of the magnetic resonance imaging MRI device as it stimulates the protons of a human body and takes advantage of the body stored energy of radio waves and re-sending it to measure and create accurate images.

Definitely. And it's really unwise and unpractical in so many ways to dismiss the Russians and Russian technological development through the decades just in radar technology. When you take a tiny sample of what they're doing to protect the MASSIVE territory of Russia, it's truly remarkable and impressive on a whole other level. And you think the Russians haven't developed anti-stealth technology while watching the US develop decades and decades of strategic bombers that has culminated so far in the B-2 Spirit and when know what's coming in the pipeline and obviously so do they, but to think they haven't taken precautions for themselves would be quite premature.

When we look at what Russia has done, it has spaced out it's NEBO radar systems and placed them into sectors for incredible coverage. When this pic was taken, they still had the north and northwest components missing and were working on producing them and installing them to complete the full circle of coverage with the NEBO radar.

And what makes the NEBO radar system so powerful is that it's not just one radar type or system, but several radars operating under different bands and frequencies such as short waves for precision data and longer waves specifically for VLO target detection and to pick up small signatures. Individually they work great respectively, but put together to make up a single, large system it to use the long waves to do the bulk of the heavy work in detecting the huge swaths of areas and the short wave radars to focus on the particular details of targets which cuts down on searching such vast areas with just one system or the other, and on top of that, they can pick up VLO targets with the same level of accuracy as if they were independently working on smaller areas. Plus these antennas are so huge and powerful they're capable of working over the horizon.

Then they've developed the "Konteiner" radar which can detect air targets in a sector of 240 degrees at a distance of over 2,500km. These are tremendous ranges and just goes to show you that this isn't some source for child's play. This is serious business and understanding the level of it's capabilities really puts things in perspective as to the level of its smaller systems as well.

The Russian understand the concept of VLO because they were experimenting with it decades ago. People think because the US was capable of fielding several stealth projects and in fancy ways like putting aside the losers of two multi million dollar races in the YF-23 and the X-32 and controlling the world market with the F-35 and making one of them STOVL at the same time.......that no one else is capable of altering any or all of that. It's classic overwhelming psychosis or the mind. Because of that, they don't realize that the Russians have figured out long time ago that even an object with a 0.0001 m^2 RCS can be detected. It is all about the signal to noise discrimination. That's simplifying it quite a bit, obviously.

This link is straight from ROSOBORONEXPORT on the NEBO SVU which is a mobile one meter wavelengths "standby" mode radar system with active solid-state electronically scanned antenna array. You can check out the specs of all the different types of radar and you'll easily notice all the long wave one meter systems are all capable of detailed detection of VLO targets that it's almost a common characteristic.

http://roe.ru/eng/catalog/air-defence-systems/radar-and-electro-optical-equipment-for-air-target-detection/nebo-svu/

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Russia is setting up 5 Resonance-N radars and hey, something is better than nothing, right? That was probably the most condescending remark I've ever gotten on this forum loool!

A 3rd Rezonans-N radar capable of spotting stealth targets, cruise, ballistic and hypersonic missiles will assume combat duty on Russia’s Novaya Zemlya Arctic Archipelago in Nov. 2019....a 4th one has already been handed over and a 5th one is being built.

https://airrecognition.com/index.ph...to-detect-hypersonic-and-stealth-targets.html

If it's good enough for Russia to spot stealthy targets, it's most certainly good enough for Egypt to spot a few F-35s loool. It's amazing how suddenly those things have gained some kind of mythical status of invincibility or something. We remember what happened to the Israelis the last time they put something together that was supposed to be invincible and impenetrable, right? The Bar Lev line was decimated in 6 hours lmaoooooooo.

Heck the one Resonance-N radar Russia has set up in Anapa is enough to keep an eye on the entire territory of Turkey.

All the Russian radar coverage including the Rezonans-NE in Algeria and Egypt. Looks like Iran is operating a system as well.

This was almost exactly a year ago:

Latest radar ready to go on combat alert in Russian Arctic

Earlier reports said the new radar would assume combat duty in November

MOSCOW, November 28. /TASS/. The third Rezonans-N radar capable of spotting hypersonic missiles flying at a speed of 20 times the speed of sound and stealth aircraft is ready to assume combat duty on Russia’s Novaya Zemlya Arctic Archipelago, Rezonans Research Center CEO Ivan Nazarenko told TASS on Thursday.

https://tass.com/defense/1093763

Russia must be doing something right with all these one-meter wavelength Resonance radars it's fielding all over the place. And the interesting part is that Egypt (and Algeria) bought and fielded their systems at the same time as Russia is fielding all of its same systems. That carries a lot of clout because of the exchange of information is vital as all parties are learning about the system and sharing their observations making all that information much more valuable and potent as it is informative.

Russia was talking about fielding the Resonans-N in the arctic by the end of 2019, so by now, they must have set up the Resonance in the Kola Peninsula in the Russian Arctic. How valuable is this radar now that people are seeing how it's excessively used by Russia itself?

https://tass.com/defense/1117577