The Woes of Indian Muslims

[gubbi]

How do you support your claim that Muslims don't like pursuing higher education as much as other religious groups in India? Any official statistics to support that bold claim?

No official statistics that I can pull out from any sources. However its from my personal experience through friends and neighbors (FYI my house in India is in a Muslim dominated area and I used to wake up at 5 or 6 to the sound of Azaan everyday) and observations.

 

[gubbi]

I never said quota is discrimination. It doesn't "cover up" discrimination, it counters discrimination against those that are discriminated in India. I hope you understand what I am saying.

No. Its a means to attract lesser privileged or ill informed people to that particular field who otherwise would follow other vocations. Its there to expand their opportunities.

 

[53fd]

Is nt it better if yes. Merits mein bhi milaga aur quota mein bhi.

Results corresponding is not states fault. State is favoring minorities.

So, let me quote you an example. West Bengal has a Muslim population of 25%. Muslims have a 2% share of reservation in West Bengal under the OBC, whereas Hindus that are 71% of the state population are enjoying reservation as Scheduled Caste/Scheduled Tribe (SC/ST) . Even if you take that out of the picture, if you see that the Muslims are 25% of the total West Bengal population, have 53% educational levels in the state, but still only have 2.2% of the government jobs (2% comes from the OBC quota as well), will you tell me that there is no discrimination in the system? That Muslims from West Bengal don't try to get state jobs at all?

 

[53fd]

No. Its a means to attract lesser privileged or ill informed people to that particular field who otherwise would follow other vocations. Its there to expand their opportunities.

You can say they follow other vocations because they are discriminated, which is why there is an OBC quota for people from backward classes. Anyways, that is a futile discussion to pursue, because you clearly think they follow other vocations willfully, whereas my family experiences in Bihar over time have been quite the contrary.

 

[SpArK]

So, let me quote you an example. West Bengal has a Muslim population of 25%. Muslims have a 2% share of reservation in West Bengal under the OBC, whereas Hindus that are 71% of the state population are enjoying reservation as Scheduled Caste/Scheduled Tribe (SC/ST) . Even if you take that out of the picture, if you see that the Muslims are 25% of the total West Bengal population, have 53% educational levels in the state, but still only have 2.2% of the government jobs (2% comes from the OBC quota as well), will you tell me that there is no discrimination in the system?

Yup they all compete for the general quotas and SC/ST and minorities can fill up their specified quotas. And as far as i know usually SC/ST community quoatas doesnt fill up most seats or job vacancies.

You still dont get the point .. ok i will explain it easily.

50 Hindus, 50 Muslims show up for an interview.

49 Hindus and 49 Muslims get the job . The quota gets filled by the other muslim and 1 is still left which a Hindu cant get and only a Muslim can fill.

So its 51 and 49.. Got it?

 

[53fd]

Yup they all compete for the general quotas and SC/ST and minorities can fill up their specified quotas. And as far as i know usually SC/ST community quoatas doesnt fill up most seats or job vacancies.

You still dont get the point .. ok i will explain it easily.

50 Hindus, 50 Muslims show up for an interview.

49 Hindus and 49 Muslims get the job . The quota gets filled by the other muslim and 1 is still left which a Hindu cant get and only a Muslim can fill.

So its 51 and 49.. Got it?

My point is that you have 25 Muslims applying for a state job in West Bengal, & 71 Hindus. 2 positions are guaranteed for the Muslims (through the OBC quota), which they get. After that, no Muslim is able to get a job. What does that show you?

The quota under the OBC for Muslims in West Bengal is 2%, & the Muslims only represent 2.2% of the state level jobs in West Bengal. What does that tell you?

 

[gubbi]

You can say they follow other vocations because they are discriminated, which is why there is an OBC quota for people from backward classes. Anyways, that is a futile discussion to pursue, because you clearly think they follow other vocations willfully, whereas my family experiences in Bihar over time have been quite the contrary.

Again like Galaxy said, UP/Bihar are among the worse off states. As you go down south, Spark nicely put it, the conditions of minorities improves. And whatever I said comes from by personal experience and observations.

However, other vocations also means family businesses, entrepreneurship etc. A couple of my friends decided to forgo their Master's degree when they could have easily gotten Govt sponsored minority quota seats in prestigious institutions but decided to start small businesses after their bachelor's. So yes, many follow other vocations wilfully even when they have access to free/minority quota seats.

 

[SpArK]

My point is that you have 25 Muslims applying for a state job in West Bengal, & 71 Hindus. 2 positions are guaranteed for the Muslims, which they get. After that, no Muslim is able to get a job. What does that show you?

The quota under the OBC for Muslims in West Bengal is 2%, & the Muslims only represent 2.2% of the state level jobs in West Bengal. What does that tell you?

OMG... 25, if eligible can get the job in general quota itself.Its not as if only they can apply for quota ones.

You still didnt get that simple fact dont u?

 

[53fd]

OMG... 25, if eligible can get the job in general quota itself.Its not as if only they can apply for quota ones.

You still didnt get that simple fact dont u?

The quota ones are the ones they are guaranteed for, fine. Of course they can apply for the other ones, & get the jobs if they meet the requirements. But they don't get the jobs. They are not deemed to meet the requirements. Why is that? That is the crux of the problem. Despite being 25% of the population of West Bengal, they have only 2.2% of the state level jobs there.

 

[gubbi]

The quota ones are the ones they are guaranteed for, fine. Of course they can apply for the other ones, & get the jobs if they meet the requirements. But they don't get the jobs. They are not deemed to meet the requirements. Why is that?

You sir, are woefully misinformed.

 

[SpArK]

The quota ones are the ones they are guaranteed for, fine. Of course they can apply for the other ones, & get the jobs if they meet the requirements. But they don't get the jobs. They are not deemed to meet the requirements. Why is that?

The state can guarantee only opportunities , its upto the communities to accept it.

They dont get the jobs in general quota means they are less capable. Simple.

 

[53fd]

The state can guarantee only opportunities , its upto the communities to accept it.

They dont get the jobs in general quota means they are less capable. Simple.

Now we're touching on the crux of the problem. You deem them less capable. Others cry over discrimination against them. Who's right & who's wrong? It can be argued either ways.

---------- Post added at 02:10 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:10 PM ----------

You sir, are woefully misinformed.

As I said, the statistics speak for themselves.

 

[Ajaxpaul]

The quota ones are the ones they are guaranteed for, fine. Of course they can apply for the other ones, & get the jobs if they meet the requirements. But they don't get the jobs. They are not deemed to meet the requirements. Why is that? That is the crux of the problem, that most Muslims that get state level jobs in West Bengal get it through quota, but not through anything else. That despite being 25% of the population of West Bengal, they have only 2.2% of the state level jobs there.

Thats what Gubbi and galaxy said, In north India esp UP, Bihar belt, the general education level is down, include the largest muslim community in those places, where they do not go to good educational istitutions, they simply cannot compete with other candidates. Since hindu population is huge, there are more likely educated hindus than muslims.

 

[SpArK]

Now we're touching on the crux of the problem. You deem them less capable. Other cry over discrimination against them. Who's right & who's wrong? It can be argued either ways.

My reply was based on the scenario of equal number of eligible candidates going to an interview and you stating that they dont get the jobs.

Just like any interview thee selection is based on merit. As far as i know discrimination in selection policy is not present according to Central and state level jobs. There is only favourism for minorities like Islam, Christianity, sikhism and buddism in the form of addition quotas.

 

[Ajaxpaul]

Now we're touching on the crux of the problem. You deem them less capable. Others cry over discrimination against them. Who's right & who's wrong? It can be argued either ways.

The govt of India is Right. It has given all citizens equal rights for education and employment. Its upto the candidate to choose.