The Woes of Indian Muslims

[Raja.Pakistani]

biggest disadvantage is that people can be easily divided,especially when you have to deal with other religions

Dont you think caste system also divide peoples in india? You think religion divide peoples while i think its unite. My belief unite me with indian or
Indonesian muslim although we don share same land . Just because i hold my religion more dear to my country dont mean i dont respect non muslims pakistani or oppress their rights.

 

[T90TankGuy]

You have just contradicted yourself there.

I am not sure whether you have lived outside India and so may never have been in a situation where you have been a powerless minority so let me give you an idea what it is to live somewhere where you are not in the majority



Here in the UK, there is quite explicit racism in the jobs market. You know this is true even without working in a company just by seeing the number of responses you will get if you put your CV on the internet and see how many responses you get. Then if you change your name to something that sounds more "white" you get a lot more interview offers, even with exactly the same CV. So that is racism even before you have the job.

Now say you have cleared this hurdle then there is the issue of how you are treated and the opportunities for promotion. By in the large, British whites in the UK are less qualified and work less hard to get the same job as a minority worker. The white management do not seem to have any shame in keeping things this way. And even if a minority person becomes a manager, he knows that unless he treats his white workers better than the others, his white superiors will find some way to get rid of him.


It is possible to succeed as a minority in the UK but you must work harder and be much better than your white colleagues for the same position. And you may ask why I put up with this? At this moment in time the alternative in BD is worse.

my dear chap all i said that i haven't seen any discriminations with MY OWN EYES , but it probably exists . and like you pointed out with your experience it exists in Britain too. and yes i have been all over the world including the UK , was in London for 3 months . my job takes me all over . . except Africa . hope to go there some day

 

[Kazhugu]

And I'm painting a picture where 71 eligible Hindu & 25 Muslim candidates apply for jobs. And then, only 2 Muslims get selected (Muslims represent 2.2% of the state level jobs). Instead of painting hypothetical pictures, I suggest we let the real statistics do the talking. If Muslims were getting positive discrimination (favoritism) for being Muslims, then why do out of 25 eligible Muslim candidates, only 2 get jobs? There is clearly something wrong in this scenario here.

You are wrong.

Suppose there are 71 Hindus and 25 Muslims in a population of 100 in West Bengal ...what is the certainity that the 25 Muslims 'all' apply for Government jobs ? You have any statistic to prove that ?

Also in West Bengal there are many illegal and Legal migrants from Bangladesh who are Muslims and below Poverty line. They cant be given jobs and this damages the statistics.

So your statistic and the logic is completely wrong.

 

[Kazhugu]

The Muslim community usually prefers to engage in trade and other SMB (Small Medium business) for their own reasons and most of them do not go for higher studies.

The average Muslim family has about 3-4 children (it may be more in many cases) and due to this they are not able to finance the needs of all the children to the fullest extent and as a result after finishing their ciollege most turnm towards business.

First they have to reduce the number of children they procreate as it deprives their other children from getting the best care.

---------- Post added at 12:50 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:50 PM ----------

There are a lot of possibilities. However, this mis/under-representation is not just seen in this one field of state level jobs, but on various other ones as well, if you see through the Sachar Report. I found a pdf version of the Sachar Report online before, & read through it intensively. There are surely a certain number of times things can remain a coincidence, right?

I do not know if any member posted this before.

Kudos Mr Khursheed, Sachar can only hold Muslims back | Firstpost

Sachar commitee was only a ploy by the Congress to give a victimhood mentality to Muslims and get their votes forever.

Thanks.
Thanks.

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

Dont you think caste system also divide peoples in india? You think religion divide peoples while i think its unite. My belief unite me with indian or
Indonesian muslim although we don share same land . Just because i hold my religion more dear to my country dont mean i dont respect non muslims pakistani or oppress their rights.

Religion unites as is with Shias, Sunnis, Sufis, Wahabis or Ahemdiyas?

You may not like to oppress the rights of the minorities, but the reality is another issue.

For instance, Sharia is applied to all citizens irrespective of religion. Now, if the majority's laws are incumbent for all to obey, what would you classify that to be?

Yes, caste system does divide. Technically, today, it is better to be of the lower castes since there is reservations in job and education.

You have just contradicted yourself there.

I am not sure whether you have lived outside India and so may never have been in a situation where you have been a powerless minority so let me give you an idea what it is to live somewhere where you are not in the majority


Here in the UK, there is quite explicit racism in the jobs market. You know this is true even without working in a company just by seeing the number of responses you will get if you put your CV on the internet and see how many responses you get. Then if you change your name to something that sounds more "white" you get a lot more interview offers, even with exactly the same CV. So that is racism even before you have the job.

Now say you have cleared this hurdle then there is the issue of how you are treated and the opportunities for promotion. By in the large, British whites in the UK are less qualified and work less hard to get the same job as a minority worker. The white management do not seem to have any shame in keeping things this way. And even if a minority person becomes a manager, he knows that unless he treats his white workers better than the others, his white superiors will find some way to get rid of him.


It is possible to succeed as a minority in the UK but you must work harder and be much better than your white colleagues for the same position. And you may ask why I put up with this? At this moment in time the alternative in BD is worse.

Well if you live in a country that is not your own, you have to obey their laws and their ways.

And they surely will not abdicate their rights just because you are a minority. You have to prove that you are better.

Interview offers do not translate into jobs in any case.

Now if one has to have a 'white' name, one should wonder why.

If one wants to impose his foreign ways on a native community by demonstrations and force to include bombs, then obviously the native community would be apprehensive. Quite natural, if you ask me.

Have you read the book 'Brick Lane' by the Bangaldeshi origin authoress?

Read it. Your contentions will be well answered.

That is the sad commentary of living in a country that is not your own.

The second generation, especially those who have adopted to their country of birth, if not of their parent's origin, do not have the 'discrimination'.

Whats wrong with holding your beliefs more dear than your land ? Kindly elaborate how its ruining pakistan.

Holding on to your belief is perfectly in order.

However, it must commensurate to the realities of the time!

And I'm painting a picture where 71 eligible Hindu & 25 Muslim candidates apply for jobs. And then, only 2 Muslims get selected (Muslims represent 2.2% of the state level jobs). Instead of painting hypothetical pictures, I suggest we let the real statistics do the talking. If Muslims were getting positive discrimination (favoritism) for being Muslims, then why do out of 25 eligible Muslim candidates, only 2 get jobs? There is clearly something wrong in this scenario here.

One has to realise that Meritocracy is the demand of the hour when you are competing with the world.

Just labels are not adequate.

 

[genmirajborgza786]

The Woes of Indian Muslims​

Muslims visit Khwaja Moinuddin Chisht, Khwaja Muin-ud-din Chishti Dargah, India's most important Muslim shrine. Comprising 15% of India's population, Muslims are often under-represented in the public and private sector.[/SIZE]

India’s Muslim population is estimated at a staggering 180 million and constitutes roughly 15% of the country’s population, but Muslims living in India suffer economically, politically, and socially. That the country’s largest religious minority does not enjoy equality under the Indian democracy is a grave challenge to the basic values of democracy, secularism, and pluralism in the “world’s largest democracy."

Discrimination against the Muslim community has historic roots (the community has been under-represented in politics and government jobs) but judging from a recent Sachar Committee Report (SCR), the situation is getting worse.

The Committee’s findings suggest that the situation is so bad that Muslims lag behind not only the Indian mainstream in nearly all spheres of progress, but also the Scheduled Castes/Tribes (SC/STs), considered the most backward sections, in many aspects. Literacy rate among Muslims (59%) was well below the national average (65%), owing mainly to the limited access to government schools.

In public employment, the picture seems even bleaker. Only 5% of the central government employees were Muslims. In the police force, their share was 3.3%. In administrative services, it was 2.2%. Muslims made up only 4.5% in Indian Railways and even then 98.7% were placed at lower levels. Representation of Muslims in Indian politics is disproportionally low. Although their share in the judiciary was 8%, only 2.7% of Indian judges are Muslim.

In the private sector, the situation is even worse. Poverty among Muslims is severe with 31% of them live below the poverty line (the second lowest of all groups). In terms of income and expenditure, Muslims shared the lowest strata, with an average Per-Capita-Expenditure (MPCE) for the year 2004-05 of only $14 against $23 of the general population. Land-ownership among Muslims was the lowest of all population categories.

The rise of anti-Muslim communalism in India is yet another woe for Muslims. As just one example, in the Gujarat massacre of 2002, over a thousand Muslims were killed and tens of thousands uprooted from their homes. The incident remains one of the worst communal killings in the country.

A recent report entitled, “What it means to be a Muslim in India Today” found that widespread communal profiling and targeting of Muslim youths by the police has produced feelings of alienation, fear, insecurity, and helplessness. Several testimonies from victims of the communal profiling reveal that Muslim youths live under the constant dread of being profiled as a terrorist, with the attendant fears of illegal and prolonged detention, denial of bail, torture, unfair and biased investigation and trial, and extra-judicial killings. This continues, despite recent revelations in a Wikileaks cable that Indian Muslims denounce terrorism and are, in large part, not attracted to extremism.

This level of discrimination does not just pose a threat to Muslims, but also threatens the communal harmony of the whole country. If this trend is not effectively checked, the “world’s largest democracy” will descend into a society with second-class citizenship for religious minorities — the antithesis of democracy.

The Woes of Indian Muslims @PolicyMic | Shahidur Rashid Talukdar

my mom is indian & that to a proud one i have relatives all over india see we choose to stay in india whatever are the conditions of the indian muslims we do not appreciate pakistanis sympathies for us no infact let me be clear that irrespective of our share of problems we are a strong community of nearly 180 million people yes like all the muslims of every country we also have our share of problems but we do not like anybody exploiting our problems for their own nationalistic purpose or thoughts sorry buts that's just the way we think we are capable enough to handle our own problems we have leaders from with in our self's to addressed our issues & concerns' we respect pakistan but we do not share their ideology nor give it any divine speciality or importance whatsoever we respect it as a country that's it nothing more nothing less we have excellent relationships with the arab world & gcc states specially Saudi arabia ,Iran,Egypt,U.A.E. kuwait etc malaysia indonesia the U.K & european nations the E.U U.S & Canada Australia all the respective islamic organizations from islamic circle of north america to O.I.C arab league etc & have our own criteria for discussion relating to concerns regarding our affairs & problems both in home & abroad we in our community are actively participating in govt projects,venues including the recent economic boom & are working towards economic uplifting we have achieved miles stones in many aspects of the indian society from the india diasporas' & community residing in west & asia pacific to the indian expatriate working in the mid-east as well as the growing middle classes of indian muslims in india the recent supreme court order to suspend the high court's decision regarding the babri mosque issue is nothing less then a milestone of what we have achieved it gives us pride in our identity as Indian muslims just like our great leader late Maulana Abul Kalam Azad(RahimAllah alayhi) we the Indian muslims are proud citizen of this great nation called india irrespective of our share of problems & achievements', failure & success we were, shall always be & are proud Indians our loyalty belongs to india & india only

 

[Raja.Pakistani]

Religion unites as is with Shias, Sunnis, Sufis, Wahabis or Ahemdiyas?

I don't know what point you are trying to make here. Even two brothers have difference of opinions and that don't mean they cannot be united. You are only looking at differences right? Why you don't bother to look at similarities . BTW Difference of opinions always exist between religious or non religious peoples, islamic or non islamic government

You may not like to oppress the rights of the minorities, but the reality is another issue.

For instance, Sharia is applied to all citizens irrespective of religion. Now, if the majority's laws are incumbent for all to obey, what would you classify that to be?

I was not talking about sharia law. I was talking about holding your personal religious belief above your nationality which is perfectly fine as you cannot dictate others how they should feel towards their religion or country but for argument sake let suppose 80 percent population of Pakistan approve Islamic laws then why you should oppose it when majority peoples live there want these laws. Would you be ok with democracy now where opinions of majority become the law of country? You said yourself that if you live in a country you should obey their laws whether you like it or not. There are many communists in India who prefer for India to be a communist state but you know very well that India cannot cater the needs of every individual in society. There will be always some peoples moaning and complaining about some laws and rules of countries which they don't find suitable to their personal needs and desires.