The Woes of Indian Muslims

[53fd]

I think a more apt correlation in terms of levels of discrimination would involve looking at a state-by-state case, looking at the population of a group at a state level, their education levels, & the amount of jobs they have in that state level. For example: I believe I read in the Sachar Report that the Indian Muslims comprise of 25% for the total West Bengal state population, yet they are only given 2% of the state level jobs there. Why is that? The education levels of Muslims in West Bengal are at 54%, but there is still a lot of disparity there. I believe a correlation can be made where a particular group's education levels can be included, as well as their population in that state; & then compared to the representations they have in the workforce for that particular state.

 

[Ajaxpaul]

What interests me here is that the "Animists, others", despite having 12.1% "less literacy %" than than the "Muslims"; have 17.1% more "Work Participation %" than Muslims. And the Jains, despite having the highest literacy %, have the second lowest work participation %. The Hindus, despite having lower literacy % than Christians, Sikhs, Jains; have a higher work participation than them. Why is that? We can all clearly see that there is no real correlation between the "literacy %" & the "Work Participation %".

The connection some Indians have made here that Muslims not having the will to acquire education results in him not having enough work participation is clearly false, because it seems that literacy % has nothing to do with work participation %, as seen from the results. And despite the fact that the average Indian Muslim has a higher education level % than the Pakistani Muslim, is still below the Pakistani Muslim in every other field of life.

You want to hear us say, Hindus and Christians collaborate and scheme against Muslims..Lol.

As spark said we cannot convince the unconvincable.

 

[JayAtl]

Thank god Indian Muslims can vote for a non Muslim, does not gets taxed more for being a 'minority' or is treated as a 3rd class citizen,


and Oh oh--- Indian Muslims also are more patriotic i.e. they don't think of themselves ( majority) as Muslim first and Then Indian...

 

[SpArK]

The Sachar Report on economics sheds some light on the issue.

• According to the report, the unemployment rate among Muslim graduates is the highest among all socio-religious communities.
  
• Also, representation of Muslims is very low in banks, universities and government departments and does not match their population share. Their share as police constables is only 6%, in health 4.4%, in transport 6.5%.
  
• At the same time, Muslim workers are engaged more in self employed manufacturing and trade activities (A National Sample Survey states that 49% Muslims in India are self employed compared to 36% Hindus and 27% Christians.)
  
• The average amount of bank loans disbursed to Muslims is 2/3 of the amount disbursed to other minorities. In some cases it is half.
  
• There are about 500,000 registered Waqfs with 600,000 acre land, and Rs 6,000 crore (approx. US $1.5 billion) book value supporting various Muslim institutions.

 

[53fd]

You want to hear us say, Hindus and Christians collaborate and scheme against Muslims..Lol.

As spark said we cannot convince the unconvincable.

It is a fact that in all other socio-economic indicators, the Indian Muslim citizen on average lags far far behind the Pakistani Muslim. It is just that their education levels are higher than Pakistani Muslims.

Anyways, this thread is not about Pakistan, so let's not bring it here. I would like any Indian to respond to my queries in Posts 27 & 31. Appreciate it.

 

[Galaxy]

Muslims in India or in any where on Earth face certain problems coz no one understands Muslims and Islam.

Yes to certain extent. I have a Muslim Friend. He is very well educated and doing better than anyone will dream for. Once i went to his house, Most of his neighbours are not so educated. I asked Why ? He said 80% Muslims don't want to take higher education in top university. Mostly prefer basic community education and further get engaged in small or family business. But His Family is liberal and Hence, the Result. This is situation all over the world.

 

[muse]

Thank you Fateh, that was an interesting and illuminating read -- now we should have something to counter it but to do so it would have to counter these points, which readers should consider :

One, the lower economic status of Muslims is related to where they are located, and not (usually) their religion. The 2001 census figures show that the Muslim literacy rate is actually higher than the Hindu one in seven major states – Andhra Pradesh, Tamil Nadu, Madhya Pradesh, Karnataka, Gujarat, Jharkhand and Maharashtra. In Kerala, Muslims and Hindus are level, and the former suffer no discrimination, whatsoever. In fact, they have benefited the most from the state’s high-quality education system and access to lucrative Gulf jobs because of their religion.

In the states where Muslims are faring worse, the explanations are clear. UP and Bihar were the worst-governed states till recently. As for West Bengal, Assam and Jammu & Kashmir, the explanations are even more obvious: illegal immigration from Bangladesh in the first two cases, and terrorism and infiltration by jihadi groups in Kashmir. Both skew the Muslim picture enormously.

The 2011 census should offer us further confirmation in this regard – and possibly a closing of the gap between Hindu and Muslim literacy rates, which stood at 65% and 59% in favour of Hindus in 2001.

Two, you cannot build a case for discrimination only by looking at areas where the numbers are stacked against the community. Muslims may be under-represented in government jobs, but they are over-represented in several other booming areas: Bollywood, employment in the Gulf, the media and entertainment sectors, BPO, automobile servicing and repairs, and several traditional industries like glass-making, leather, powerlooms, carpet-making and zari work – to name just a few examples.

Three, you cannot build a sense of empowerment among Muslims without talking about their success stories. Whether it is an Azim Premji at Wipro, Yusuf Hamied at Cipla or Habil Khorakiwala at Wockhardt, these are the role models to provide inspiration. But Sachar does not even mention them.

Are these success stories aberrations? Can a community lift itself without its own sense of heroes? How many Muslims would be energised by the symbolism personified by the Khans of Bollywood as opposed to the Sachar symbols of crutches and life-support systems?

Four, the Sachar data is highly biased in three ways. First, it is not “normalised”. Apples are compared with oranges. Second, the Muslim data is compared only to the upper classes/castes in Hindu society and not the whole of it (SC/ST Hindus are excluded from the comparison). When you choose your own yardstick for comparison, you will get the results you want (discrimination).

As Sunil Jain pointed out in Business Standard some years ago, the data are not comparable. If we have too few Muslim IAS officers, we have to look deeper, for the raw numbers provide no explanation. The real issue is few Muslims even sat for the IAS. But things are changing, and the 2010 IAS topper was a Kashmiri Muslim – Shah Faesal. Jain also says that Muslims figure lower in the economic league because they have fewer members among the salaried classes.

Five, Nitish Sengupta, a former MP and secretary to the Union government, also points to a more fundamental flaw in Sachar’s loaded report. According to him, the lower economic status of Muslims in India was the result of partition, which saw the best and brightest leaving for Pakistan. This automatically robbed Indian Muslims of their elite, those who were best equipped to succeed in independent India.

Says Sengupta: “Those (Muslims) who stayed back in India were, by and large, the rural community, the self-employed and the service providers. A great majority of them, under the influence of powerful mullahs, kept away from modern education and, in consequence, modern jobs and professions. Thus, the figures for Muslim percentage in government jobs practically started from a zero base. This point should have been mentioned in the report’s overall analysis. Its omission is a serious statistical error.”

Six, Sachar completely ignores the internal factors that may be holding back Muslims. It did not look at the reasons why Muslims opted out of a secular education, why they have looked to mullahs and imams for leadership instead of modernists like Arif Mohammed Khan (who supported the Shah Banu court verdict) or even a Salman Khursheed.

 

[Ajaxpaul]

I think a more apt correlation in terms of levels of discrimination would involve looking at a state-by-state case, looking at the population of a group at a state level, their education levels, & the amount of jobs they have in that state level. For example: I believe I read in the Sachar Report that the Indian Muslims comprise of 25% for the total West Bengal state population, yet they are only given 2% of the state level jobs there. Why is that? The education levels of Muslims in West Bengal are at 54%, but there is still a lot of disparity there. I believe a correlation can be made where a particular group's education levels can be included, as well as their population in that state; & then compared to the representations they have in the workforce for that particular state.

2% is the quota, where others cannot compete. But that does not mean only 2% Muslims will get the job. Why cant they compete in general catogory?.

Suppose in future Bengal becomes 100% muslim state so people of other religion cannot work there? Thats called NO LOGIC

 

[53fd]

2% is the quota, where others cannot compete. But that does not mean only 2% Muslims will get the job. Why cant they compete in general catogory?.

Suppose in future Bengal becomes 100% muslim state so people of other religion cannot work there? Thats called NO LOGIC

2% is the quota, & that's all the representation they have for state jobs, despite being 25% of the West Bengal population. They don't have any other representation in WB for state jobs besides the quota.

 

[SpArK]

I think a more apt correlation in terms of levels of discrimination would involve looking at a state-by-state case, looking at the population of a group at a state level, their education levels, & the amount of jobs they have in that state level. For example: I believe I read in the Sachar Report that the Indian Muslims comprise of 25% for the total West Bengal state population, yet they are only given 2% of the state level jobs there. Why is that? The education levels of Muslims in West Bengal are at 54%, but there is still a lot of disparity there. I believe a correlation can be made where a particular group's education levels can be included, as well as their population in that state; & then compared to the representations they have in the workforce for that particular state.

All can compete in general quota. And all cant compete for jobs in minority quotas.

Usually when the general quotas are filled , only minorities can go for their reservation seats.

That means more opportunity for minorities.

 

[Galaxy]

It is a fact that in all other socio-economic indicators, the Indian Muslim citizen on average lags far far behind the Pakistani Muslim. It is just that their education levels are higher than Pakistani Muslims.

Education is most important one. Why Christian with 2.5% population doing very well and best in India ? It's the preference of Education and liberal view among any religion. It's not Pakistan where minorities don't even have equal rights. Anyone who wants can achieve the Goal. But It's One Desire to think that way.

 

[53fd]

Yes to certain extent. I have a Muslim Friend. He is very well educated and doing better than anyone will dream for. Once i went to his house, Most of his neighbours are not so educated. I asked Why ? He said 80% Muslims don't want to take higher education in top university. Mostly prefer basic community education and further get engaged in small or family business. But His Family is liberal and Hence, the Result. This is situation all over the world.

The answer to your myth:

Sachar nails madrasa myth: Only 4% Muslim kids go there - Indian Express

 

[Galaxy]

2% is the quota, & that's all the representation they have for state jobs, despite being 25% of the West Bengal population. They don't have any other representation in WB for state jobs besides the quota.

Study - Work Hard - Become I.A.S. Officer. Anyone can do that. Rule is same for everyone. It's one way to achieve certain things. Dr. Abdul Kalam become India's best scientist and President of India.

 

[Ajaxpaul]

2% is the quota, & that's all the representation they have for state jobs, despite being 25% of the West Bengal population. They don't have any other representation in WB for state jobs besides the quota.

See first of all in India, JOBS are not divided for religions. There is no x% for Hindus, y% for christians etc... There is General quota, where any person can take up jobs as per qualification, and there is quotas for minorities. These quotas for minorities are small because they have to adjust it for many religious minorities as well as for ST, SC.

Your post sounds like you cannot comprehend that there much more religions in India than Pak and in much larger scale.

 

[Galaxy]

The answer to your myth:

Sachar nails madrasa myth: Only 4% Muslim kids go there - Indian Express

66% Goes to nearby Government Schools. Government Schools standard is 1/10th of Private School. Government Schools are not the best one. Government promotes such schools to give almost free education. Go to Private School, Study. Success Ratio will increase. You can become literate in Gov School but to get one of the best posts, You need to Study more and more. Check Universities facts, Most of the leave their education after schooling from Gov. School.