The Thorn in the Garden | Terrorism in Indo-Pak relations.

[Bang Galore]

Actually onion our Punjab CM, our PM are Kashmiris. So we've no problem with them As there is no substantial proof of India supporting terrorism in Pakistan there is neither in the reciprocal either. In terms of international law and again a law expert might be able to guide you better, non-state actors do not necessarily represent the state, that is the reason why the USA did not declare war on Saudi Arabia as most 9/11 hijackers were Saudi nationals.

If it is of international proof then India must put forth the proofs to the international community I would welcome your people to read in more detail about the technicalities that are in this case and it's policy. Usually such rhetoric is only appeasement.

There is no proof ? Most Pakistani analyst, let alone others, accept some Pakistani involvement. If the state allows non state actors freedom and encourages them, then the state partakes in their actions. India has proof, the Americans have proof, the British have. Hence constant statements suggesting Pakistani state involvement. There is an article posted which details what the U.S. deputy defence secretary said about Pakistan & state terrorism. Maybe you should read that.

In any case, your above post is more of the standard Pakistani rhetoric. I see that you haven't taken the chance to be clear on what you think is realistically possible on the Indo-Pak problem and how it should be done. The original post is then, unfortunately just more rhetoric, couched as an analysis.

 

[IndoUS]

There is no proof ? Most Pakistani analyst, let alone others, accept some Pakistani involvement. If the state allows non state actors freedom and encourages them, then the state partakes in their actions. India has proof, the Americans have proof, the British have. Hence constant statements suggesting Pakistani state involvement. There is an article posted which details what the U.S. deputy defence secretary said about Pakistan & state terrorism. Maybe you should read that.

In any case, your above post is more of the standard Pakistani rhetoric. I see that you haven't taken the chance to be clear on what you think is realistically possible on the Indo-Pak problem and how it should be done. The original post is then, unfortunately just more rhetoric, couched as an analysis.

This pretty much sums it up.

 

[Shardul.....the lion]

It appears to me that it is . From the last sixty years , we haven't even seen any enthusiasm from the Indian public nor any effort from the Indian Armed forces to take up that part despite well the usual conventional advantage . Maybe , the top Indian brass realizes the mistake of conquering another " hostile population " in Northern Areas now Gilgit-Baltistan * and Azad Kashmir ? In a manner , the former has been the most strategic parts of Kashmir .

Yes practically India does not want GB and azad kashmir nor it wants any part of Pakistan

 

[Bang Galore]

A mixing up here but I shall answer.


Pakistan has placed forth a workable solution of honouring the aspirations of the Kashmiri people; the Indian rebuttal of Pakistan withdrawing troops does not stand well as if it is done so then it should be mutual and simultaneous.

What are you talking about? The U.N. resolutions? A plebiscite? This is your solution? This is standard Pakistani maximalist position which has zero traction. You are simply wasting everyone's time if you think anyone in India is interested in any solution on these lines.

Regarding Pakistan's position there is a misconception of India and Pakistan having equal shares in the problem and the solution that is not the case, as the article argues. If you think that was a plea then you are wrong, that is a fact. Your people do not want to listen to that nor see it then that's another issue.

If you are merely stating Pakistani position, then you are simply wasting everyone else's time. Nobody in India is about to give Pakistan a solution it wants.

We are here since 1947 and we will be here no matter what; it seems Indians no longer wish peace nor progress unless in circumstances that are best for both nations and the region; perhaps, due the 'wounded' egos a section of your people have. Still, we'll be the bad guy then so be it.

Be whatever. No one in India cares. You are the one who wrote something. Must be able to follow it with coherent positions leading to a viable solution. India is interested in peace but not at any price & we aren't about to pay Pakistan's price just because you want us to. You are yet to indicate what Pakistan will bring to the table in return for all this hoped for Indian generosity. Do you want something for free? Seriously?

 

[jaibi]

Ah... the greatest troll returns you know I have had some talks with the upper management of having such articles open for all members as we would discuss and grow but people like you give credence to their views. Anyho, this would be my last answer to you as I know you come here to fuel yourself on ultranationalism.

I have read enough to notice that it is the usual invocation of self pitying justifications which Pakistan pass off as the underlying reason for their boorish and aggressive behavior . Fortunately the world has heard it all and for long enough. And so, hypotheses suggesting that Muslim extremism is a result of their "repression" now simply evokes the derisory scorn which it justly deserves.

Frankly idiotic on your part, read history with a leeetleee bit of prejudice and you would see that even the most henious acts such as the Soviet purges, the Holocaust and such have psychosocial reasons behind them. There is no plea nor justifications, a mere causation. You have interpreted wrongly because you're not really read the article. You've read into the article.

As expected.

I have noted that you are rehashing the same mischief under an academic veneer. By way of illustration:

Please, learn to respect others even if they are from a country and religion you were bred to hate, I'm sure you'll still go home with a full tank of inflated national esteem. Just makes you look small, seems many of your countrymen have appreciated the effort at least.

Is there any doubt that India is the stronger party. Why should Pakistan invite a dilemma upon itself by trying to box far above its weight. It would have been better if you had confessed that this endless but futile obsession to achieve equality with India is a result of Pakistani's misconceived sense of superiority fueled by mindless indoctrination of being descendants of Central Asian conquerors. India certainly did not invite Pakistan to play this unequal game.

It's you who is obsessed with who is stronger, not us. We answer you toe to toe because we've been put in the ring, we didn't really want to be there in the first place. If you had read the 'Bhara Mulk' section you'll see how I have explained this further, again read with your hate filter off.

Have you ever examined why this perceived discrimination exists and how far Muslims are responsible for the corner they have painted themselves into.

Yes, I have, read it again with eyes open and go around PDF about my posts, like I said there are social forces behind this dilemma if only people like you would try to kill a few braincells.

Sorry to say it but the congenital inability of the Muslim world to introspect appears to be the biggest cause of their largely unacceptable actions which provokes a backlash and hatred from other religions.

You're not really sorry so do not lie; we have been seeing your posts on PDF and it is a Pakistani forum allowing you to speak freely and respecting your opinions despite your full efforts. Islamic rulers have had better relations with all religions they encountered; the Jewish people for example were saved from Christian persecution by Muslim Emperors, there are certain myths perpetuated about Muslim rulers especially in India and that is largely fueled by British divide and rule, who's created stereotypes are still with you even amongst your own people, and picked up by South Asians.

Here's food for

 

[jaibi]

I am so glad to meet you guys. I thought the Indian as my fellow countrymen tell me are a myth, glad to see some proofs. I had actually presented no solution, I said that there were solutions put on the table as you had raised in the first post.

As no one in India cares what we are or what we have to say then I really should not waste my time answering you. It seems that now we first have to deal with inflated egos to be able to argue properly. When that happens, do mention me and we would exchange ideas sanely.

What are you talking about? The U.N. resolutions? A plebiscite? This is your solution? This is standard Pakistani maximalist position which has zero traction. You are simply wasting everyone's time if you think anyone in India is interested in any solution on these lines.



If you are merely stating Pakistani position, then you are simply wasting everyone else's time. Nobody in India is about to give Pakistan a solution it wants.





Be whatever. No one in India cares. You are the one who wrote something. Must be able to follow it with coherent positions leading to a viable solution. India is interested in peace but not at any price & we aren't about to pay Pakistan's price just because you want us to. You are yet to indicate what Pakistan will bring to the table in return for all this hoped for Indian generosity. Do you want something for free? Seriously?

 

[Dillinger]

@jaibi Flesh out a solution that would be fair

Another one that Pakistan can live with

And the one you think is most likely to happen.

 

[jaibi]

@jaibi Flesh out a solution that would be fair

Another one that Pakistan can live with

And the one you think is most likely to happen.

That would happen through negotiations, mate. That's the point focus on peace and try to achieve a workable solution. Here the focus is opposite. This is called dynamic dysfunction in organizations: we keep thinking at the same level and put more effort in the same problem the same way.

Support is probable, the same analysts agree on Indian support to Pakistani insurgencies, I'm a professional researcher that's why you see references. Most likely you won't be able to access them because they're available to subscribers and editors. Your prejudices do not spill over into my work: I have done my research and newspaper articles are the lowest source in historiographies, we reject articles having more than 1/3rd referencing from papers on theoretical points.

There is no proof ? Most Pakistani analyst, let alone others, accept some Pakistani involvement. If the state allows non state actors freedom and encourages them, then the state partakes in their actions. India has proof, the Americans have proof, the British have. Hence constant statements suggesting Pakistani state involvement. There is an article posted which details what the U.S. deputy defence secretary said about Pakistan & state terrorism. Maybe you should read that.

In any case, your above post is more of the standard Pakistani rhetoric. I see that you haven't taken the chance to be clear on what you think is realistically possible on the Indo-Pak problem and how it should be done. The original post is then, unfortunately just more rhetoric, couched as an analysis.

 

[jaibi]

....

In any case, your above post is more of the standard Pakistani rhetoric. I see that you haven't taken the chance to be clear on what you think is realistically possible on the Indo-Pak problem and how it should be done. The original post is then, unfortunately just more rhetoric, couched as an analysis.

Read the original article again, there is a thing called research question on which we focus and leave all things aside I would include that now in my articles since I have people like you in my audience. The focus of this paper is not to flesh out a solution but actually what impedes reaching one. Read up Prisoner's Dilemma as well, there's a reason I gave that as my heading.

 

[Secur]

What are you talking about? The U.N. resolutions? A plebiscite? This is your solution? This is standard Pakistani maximalist position which has zero traction. You are simply wasting everyone's time if you think anyone in India is interested in any solution on these lines.

What exactly are your dear countrymen so sure of , that this idea has zero support as per you in India ? Despite the fact that the author suggests no specific solution but leaves that for a later date when the conditions are right , what is acceptable for the ' inflated egos ' here ?

 

[vicky sen]

pakistan is not serious about combating terrorism which is directed at india. y on earth is hafiz saeed still at large?? and the rouge military only makes matters worse.... der dosnt seem 2 b any solution in sight....

 

[Slav Defence]

What exactly are your dear countrymen so sure of , that this idea has zero support as per you in India ? Despite the fact that the author suggests no specific solution but leaves that for a later date when the conditions are right , what is acceptable for the ' inflated egos ' here ?

secur,mate....
Unless Kashmir issue will not be resolved and both nations will not realize that except peace talk,there is no other way left,till then we can't imagine of any stable relationship.
This fact is due to the reason that India and Pakistan are haunted and chased by past experiences and have strong impression of insecurity and consider their staying together peacefully as impossible due to past battles,proxy wars,operations which they have launched/waged against each other,yet still after having a series of warfare Pakistan and India got nothing except 'formation of Bangladesh' and 'half of Kashmir' while rest is still occupied by Indians.
This fact cannot be denied either that both countries got desired results due to 'proxy wars' or 'cold wars' such as Mukti Bahini or Mujhadin in case of Kashmir.
So,we must face it that since both countries are nuclear power and consider each other as a threa,thus they cannot come on single plateform to have serious conferences as they consider each other responsible for their instablity and recognize each other as threat,currently Indian media has admitted 'Operation deep strike' to give massive/maximum damage to Pakistan.
Inshallah I will present my detailed analysis.
@jaibi,well written mate.

 

[Jade]

There is indeed a solution for Indo-Pak impasse - Pak drop Kashmir everything will go lightening fast.

With Indian PM saying UN resolution have lost their relevance just a few days back in UN itself, Pakistan should realize that UN resolution cannot be a solution.

 

[madooxno9]

The only solution i see is more FENCING along the border and better intelligence. We all know that there is no head of the state or a one body governance in Pakistan. When Pakistan will be a stable state , then only there is chance that we may look into an option called AMAN KI ASHA. Until then Asha can go to hell

 

[Bang Galore]

What exactly are your dear countrymen so sure of , that this idea has zero support as per you in India ? Despite the fact that the author suggests no specific solution but leaves that for a later date when the conditions are right , what is acceptable for the ' inflated egos ' here ?

Maybe you should read. More slowly. This was what was said in reply to me asking what possible solution was envisaged.

Pakistan has placed forth a workable solution of honouring the aspirations of the Kashmiri people; the Indian rebuttal of Pakistan withdrawing troops does not stand well as if it is done so then it should be mutual and simultaneous.

This is the U.N. resolution argument(I would assume). This is what simply won't fly. Inflated Egos? This is a talking shop. Nothing more.

I am so glad to meet you guys. I thought the Indian as my fellow countrymen tell me are a myth, glad to see some proofs. I had actually presented no solution, I said that there were solutions put on the table as you had raised in the first post.

Good that you are disabused of you belief in whatever sort of Indian you thought only existed (pointless, I could do easily do that too. Argue the point). I asked for you to offer up a solution, you put up the above as a solution put on the table. I case you read my post, I asked for a workable solution, one that might meet with some Indian approval & also as to what Pakistan brought on to the table in any such discussion, beyond stated demands.