The Thorn in the Garden | Terrorism in Indo-Pak relations.

[rafiqali]

Pakistanis need to realize that their aggression and misadventures of last sixty years have completely exhausted their goodwill capital in India. Today, you will not find a single policy analyst or politician advocating engagement with Pakistan. Request for dialogue from Pakistan is correctly interpreted as a sign of its weakness - that Pakistan has been reduced to a teetering, exhausted state which, at best, is just a nuisance but not a serious military threat. Indian military and strategic planning has long left Pakistan behind.

In fact, after Kargil and Mumbai, there has been a serious reconsideration of the earlier opinion which considered that a stable Pakistan is in India's long term interest. Increasingly, it is felt that breakup of Pakistan is more beneficial to India as this would allow us to free our energies and permit taking a long term strategic view which Pakistan, with its unreliable and disruptive behavior, interferes with.Fortunately, this view is also generally supported by the western powers which see Pakistan as an incorrigible, but nuclear armed renegade whose existence disturbs India from acting as an effective counter to China.

 

[jaibi]

Seems like you skimmed through the article. Anyways, thanks for the read.

Pakistanis need to realize that their aggression and misadventures of last sixty years have completely exhausted their goodwill capital in India. Today, you will not find a single policy analyst or politician advocating engagement with Pakistan. Request for dialogue from Pakistan is correctly interpreted as a sign of its weakness - that Pakistan has been reduced to a teetering, exhausted state which, at best, is just a nuisance but not a serious military threat. Indian military and strategic planning has long left Pakistan behind.

In fact, after Kargil and Mumbai, there has been a serious reconsideration of the earlier opinion which considered that a stable Pakistan is in India's long term interest. Increasingly, it is felt that breakup of Pakistan is more beneficial to India as this would allow us to free our energies and permit taking a long term strategic view which Pakistan, with its unreliable and disruptive behavior, interferes with.Fortunately, this view is also generally supported by the western powers which see Pakistan as an incorrigible, but nuclear armed renegade whose existence disturbs India from acting as an effective counter to China.

 

[rafiqali]

Seems like you skimmed through the article. Anyways, thanks for the read.

I have read enough to notice that it is the usual invocation of self pitying justifications which Pakistan pass off as the underlying reason for their boorish and aggressive behavior . Fortunately the world has heard it all and for long enough. And so, hypotheses suggesting that Muslim extremism is a result of their "repression" now simply evokes the derisory scorn which it justly deserves.

I have noted that you are rehashing the same mischief under an academic veneer. By way of illustration:

Firstly, India needs to realise why Pakistan has proxies, it sees itself on a disadvantaged position and India has taken advantage of that, though rightfully or wrongfully, India is hardly a neighbour one would invite over, for Pakistan, at least. The Indian position that it is the ‘stronger’ party and should be able to have an upper hand causes this dilemma.

Source: http://www.defence.pk/forums/strate...rrorism-can-there-progress.html#ixzz2gZw2ZAKB

Is there any doubt that India is the stronger party. Why should Pakistan invite a dilemma upon itself by trying to box far above its weight. It would have been better if you had confessed that this endless but futile obsession to achieve equality with India is a result of Pakistani's misconceived sense of superiority fueled by mindless indoctrination of being descendants of Central Asian conquerors. India certainly did not invite Pakistan to play this unequal game.

On a slight detour I would like to explain briefly that the Muslim populace of the world has perceived the various political discriminations and oppressions against them as an ‘in-group’ threat and due to the mass media there has been considerable projection of the threat which is perceived as a large threat to identity and there rests a responsibility in both the Muslim and International community to address this problem, it is not one sided. The identity formation of various Muslim populations has been fraught with trauma and no milestones (successful dealing with an identity crisis).


Source: http://www.defence.pk/forums/strate...rrorism-can-there-progress.html#ixzz2gZxs8w9m

Have you ever examined why this perceived discrimination exists and how far Muslims are responsible for the corner they have painted themselves into. Sorry to say it but the congenital inability of the Muslim world to introspect appears to be the biggest cause of their largely unacceptable actions which provokes a backlash and hatred from other religions.

 

[Bang Galore]

The solution to the India-Pakistan problem is to realise that there is no solution. Not of the core issue of Kashmir. Or the connected issue of Siachen.( I reject the assertion that the Indian state institutionally discriminates against Muslims & that discrimination is why supposedly there are terrorist attacks.) There is very little that can be discussed on Kashmir. Pakistanis have been continuously repeating that this issue needs to be solved & that there should be a dialogue. Yet no Pakistani puts forward a proposal that is any different from the maximalist position taken & certainly no solution that they believe will have considerable support in India. I would have very much liked to hear a workable solution being put forward. What is it that Pakistan wants and what does it bring to the table to be taken seriously. On Siachen...on Kashmir...on the water issue..?

Even in the article, there is a plea to understand that Pakistan cannot & should not be asked to "do more"... Is that a solution in itself ? What possible gains would India get by adopting that attitude? That is not a solution that will last forever. What is it that Pakistan wants in an India-Pakistan relationship? Unless basic questions like these are answered, there is very little that can be debated.

 

[Leader]

There should be good mutual relations, respecting each other and finding mutual interests..

 

[onionkiller]

problem is that pakistan wants kashmir. this is the main problem. pakistan dnt love kashmiri people,if they than they dnt gave kashmiri land as a gift to china. now just two options are available for pakistan -1. leave kashmir. 2 status quo. pakistan must have to end of support to terrorism in India, and there is no proof that India is supporting terrorism in Pakistan. if they have show proof at internatiol level.

 

[Fireurimagination]

Pakistan stops harboring terror and terrorists, make LOC the international border with few concessions here and there, Kashmiris those who want to migrate to Pakistan or Azad Kashmir can do so, India compensates Pakistan with $1-2 billion for rehabilitation of these migrants.. problem solved or we can fight a war and kill 10s of 1000s and end up with half of India and no Pakistan.

 

[Ayush]

kashmir is going nowhere,but pak wont give up on it.

so,how are we gonna achieve peace??

 

[Bang Galore]

kashmir is going nowhere,but pak wont give up on it.

so,how are we gonna achieve peace??

That would depend on your definition of peace. We are not in an all out war, is that peace? In a way, it is. It all depends on what level of violence is tolerable, regardless of any solution being reached or not, there will always be some violence, for a very long time.

 

[rafiqali]

Pakistan stops harboring terror and terrorists, make LOC the international border with few concessions here and there, Kashmiris those who want to migrate to Pakistan or Azad Kashmir can do so, India compensates Pakistan with $1-2 billion for rehabilitation of these migrants.. problem solved or we can fight a war and kill 10s of 1000s and end up with half of India and no Pakistan.

I m sorry but that position is not acceptable to Indian people, by and large. We need the entire Kashmir. Northern territories are important as a gateway to Central Asia and Afghanistan, and also for disconnecting China from Pakistan. India will never give up herclaim on what is rightfully hers.

 

[Secur]

I m sorry but that position is not acceptable to Indian people, by and large. We need the entire Kashmir. Northern territories are important as a gateway to Central Asia and Afghanistan, and also for disconnecting China from Pakistan. India will never give up herclaim on what is rightfully hers.

It appears to me that it is . From the last sixty years , we haven't even seen any enthusiasm from the Indian public nor any effort from the Indian Armed forces to take up that part despite well the usual conventional advantage . Maybe , the top Indian brass realizes the mistake of conquering another " hostile population " in Northern Areas now Gilgit-Baltistan * and Azad Kashmir ? In a manner , the former has been the most strategic parts of Kashmir .

 

[Shardul.....the lion]

India will never ever give Kashmir and Pakistan will never give away use of proxies.... so its a stalemate...

so enjoy

 

[jaibi]

Actually onion our Punjab CM, our PM are Kashmiris. So we've no problem with them As there is no substantial proof of India supporting terrorism in Pakistan there is neither in the reciprocal either. In terms of international law and again a law expert might be able to guide you better, non-state actors do not necessarily represent the state, that is the reason why the USA did not declare war on Saudi Arabia as most 9/11 hijackers were Saudi nationals.

If it is of international proof then India must put forth the proofs to the international community I would welcome your people to read in more detail about the technicalities that are in this case and it's policy. Usually such rhetoric is only appeasement.

problem is that pakistan wants kashmir. this is the main problem. pakistan dnt love kashmiri people,if they than they dnt gave kashmiri land as a gift to china. now just two options are available for pakistan -1. leave kashmir. 2 status quo. pakistan must have to end of support to terrorism in India, and there is no proof that India is supporting terrorism in Pakistan. if they have show proof at internatiol level.

 

[Side-Winder]

You are awesome

@jaibi

thanks for writing!!!

 

[jaibi]

A mixing up here but I shall answer.

The discrimination against Muslims is your internal matter, yet there is no denial of it, in the article that was suppose to be a more generalised explanation, about the terrorism issue as a whole.

I have stayed neutral to both sides and explained Pakistan's side which does not get media representation nor academic voice. Why is it so is another issue completely yet it is that way.

Pakistan has placed forth a workable solution of honouring the aspirations of the Kashmiri people; the Indian rebuttal of Pakistan withdrawing troops does not stand well as if it is done so then it should be mutual and simultaneous.

Regarding Pakistan's position there is a misconception of India and Pakistan having equal shares in the problem and the solution that is not the case, as the article argues. If you think that was a plea then you are wrong, that is a fact. Your people do not want to listen to that nor see it then that's another issue.

We are here since 1947 and we will be here no matter what; it seems Indians no longer wish peace nor progress unless in circumstances that are best for both nations and the region; perhaps, due the 'wounded' egos a section of your people have. Still, we'll be the bad guy then so be it.

The solution to the India-Pakistan problem is to realise that there is no solution. Not of the core issue of Kashmir. Or the connected issue of Siachen.( I reject the assertion that the Indian state institutionally discriminates against Muslims & that discrimination is why supposedly there are terrorist attacks.) There is very little that can be discussed on Kashmir. Pakistanis have been continuously repeating that this issue needs to be solved & that there should be a dialogue. Yet no Pakistani puts forward a proposal that is any different from the maximalist position taken & certainly no solution that they believe will have considerable support in India. I would have very much liked to hear a workable solution being put forward. What is it that Pakistan wants and what does it bring to the table to be taken seriously. On Siachen...on Kashmir...on the water issue..?

Even in the article, there is a plea to understand that Pakistan cannot & should not be asked to "do more"... Is that a solution in itself ? What possible gains would India get by adopting that attitude? That is not a solution that will last forever. What is it that Pakistan wants in an India-Pakistan relationship? Unless basic questions like these are answered, there is very little that can be debated.