The third option for attack helicopter

[Haris Ali2140]

His point is that Turkey can produce those choppers and sell as much as it likes the only problem is the engine issue which is taken care of.
Turkish weapons basing on western tech is something good, its top notch technology after all.

We are buying frigates, upgraded our subs with turkish avionics so there is no doubt on capability.

 

[cabatli_53]

Near 100% of Turkish military hardware is Western, and of that amount majority is American. Whether you grab your ear from one side, or around, it's the same damn ear. To-may-toe or To-maa-to, it's the same damn thing.

Correction: Nearly %70 of current Turkish military hardware are Turkish. Turkish industry is working hard to increase the level up to %90’s. On the other hand, Turkish industry has a Western style working principle, certification and test phases. Some base technologies that was taken at the very beggining of the programs have natural links to Western equivalents and our products must be compatible with their Western equivalents to prove their efficiency under the NATO network so Turkey follows the Western standarts %100. It doesn’t mean the hardwares are %100 Western.

 

[Nasr]

You are watching Imran Hossein, aren't you?

Yawn!!

 

[HAIDER]

Pakistan looks set to turn to China for its attack helicopter replacement needs after US embargoes halted sales of rival Bell and Turkish Aerospace products.

Islamabad had in 2015 ordered 12 Bell AH-1Zs under the USA’s Foreign Military Sales process and then followed that in 2018 with a deal for 30 Turkish Aerospace T129s worth $1.5 billion.

Source: Shimin Gu/Wikimedia Commons

But the AH-1Z sale has been on hold since US President Donald Trump cut security funding to Pakistan, and export sanctions related to the US-built LHTEC T800 engines which power the T129 has led to the suspension of that contract.

This impasse, and a pressing need to retire its fleet of 48 Bell AH-1Fs, is now pushing Islamabad to consider alternatives, Major General Syed Najeeb Ahmed, commander, army aviation, told Defence IQ’s International Military Helicopter conference in London on 26 February.

“We are looking at other options. One of them is in China in the shape of the new attack helicopter they have created called the Z-10ME,” he says. “In case the first two options do not materialise this third option will be considered.”

Pakistan had previously evaluated an earlier version of the CAIC Z-10, but Ahmed says the latest iteration has improved weapons and systems.

Source: Turkish Aerospace

Ahmed is extremely doubtful that the AH-1Z deal can be resurrected, and although Turkish Aerospace is developing an indigenous replacement engine for the T129, he is not confident that this will be ready in time.

In fact, Pakistan has set a deadline of July this year for a final decision, Ahmed says.

The relative urgency is driven by India’s capability increases, as New Delhi grows its fleet of Boeing AH-64E Apaches.

“The Cobras are no match for the Apaches that the Indians are getting,” he says. “We definitely want to match that [capability].”
https://www.flightglobal.com/helico...ck-of-stalled-ah-1z-t129-deals/136944.article

Air Platforms
Pakistan to buy Chinese attack helicopters if Turkey and US fail to deliver
Gareth Jennings, London - Jane's Defence Weekly
27 February 2020
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The Chinese-built Z-10 attack helicopter could be procured by Pakistan should its first two preferences of the AH-1Z and T-129 not be delivered. Source: Via CCTV
Pakistan will procure the Chinese-built Z-10 attack helicopter if Turkey and the United States fail to deliver on their orders of the T-129 and AH-1Z respectively, a senior offer said on 26 February.

Speaking at the IQPC International Military Helicopter conference in London, the commander of Pakistan's Army Aviation, Major General Syed Najeeb Ahmed, said that the Changhe Aircraft Industries Corporation (CAIC) Z-10ME "remains an option" if the Turkish Aerospace T-129 and Bell AH-1Z Viper prove to be unobtainable for different reasons.

The Pakistan Army has a pressing need to replace its 32 ageing Bell AH-1 Cobra helicopters that have been in service for more than 30 years, with Gen Ahmed's predecessor, Major General Nasir D Shah, telling Jane's and other defence media in January 2018, "The AH-1 helicopters have provided effective close support for our ground forces engaged in counterinsurgency [COIN] operations, but they cannot be employed effectively in high-altitude operations above 8,000 ft."

In the near-term, the army partially offset these limitations with the four Mil Mi-35s that it ordered from Russian some years ago, and which were delivered to the country in late 2017. Further to the Mi-35s, it evaluated the AH-1Z, T-129, and the Z-10 attack helicopters.

In January 2016 it was announced that Bell had been awarded a contract for 12 AH-1Zs, and in April 2017 Jane's reported that the first three of 12 would be delivered in mid‐2017, with a second order to follow. However, the aircraft were yet to be delivered, and while there has been no official statement concerning reasons for delay it is understood to result from the current strained Pakistan-US relations.

Want to read more? For analysis on this article and access to Jane's unrivalled data and insight, learn more about our subscription options at janes.com/products

https://www.janes.com/article/94566...-helicopters-if-turkey-and-us-fail-to-deliver


So, July 2020 PA has to decide the attach helicopter

 

[farooqbhai007]

So let me explain one thing -
PA aviation corps tested the Z-10 in the pakistani specific Z-10M version which was rejected , the Z-10ME on the other hand is a much upgraded Z-10M version , it features even heavier engines and active and passive countermeasures, missile approach warning system, radar warning receiver, new engine exhaust nozzle pointed upwards to reduce infrared signature, new intake filtration systems and armor panels, more powerful 1200 kW engine, larger ammunition magazine, appliqué graphene-based armor panels, infrared jammer, and a new IFF interrogator etc , some of which stuff was not present on Z-10M.
So it fullfills the areas lacked by the original variant Z-10M .

 

[dbc]

So let me explain one thing -
PA aviation corps tested the Z-10 in the pakistani specific Z-10M version which was rejected , the Z-10ME on the other hand is a much upgraded Z-10M version , it features even heavier engines and active and passive countermeasures, missile approach warning system, radar warning receiver, new engine exhaust nozzle pointed upwards to reduce infrared signature, new intake filtration systems and armor panels, more powerful 1200 kW engine, larger ammunition magazine, appliqué graphene-based armor panels, infrared jammer, and a new IFF interrogator etc , some of which stuff was not present on Z-10M.
So it fullfills the areas lacked by the original variant Z-10M .

How many Z-10's have China ordered? 118 seems too low? Any idea why?

 

[Pakistani Fighter]

How many Z-10's have China ordered? 118 seems too low? Any idea why?

I wish US allows AH1Zs to Pakistan with latest weapons and avionics. Those are the hell of the beasts

 

[khanasifm]

Pakistan looks set to turn to China for its attack helicopter replacement needs after US embargoes halted sales of rival Bell and Turkish Aerospace products.

Islamabad had in 2015 ordered 12 Bell AH-1Zs under the USA’s Foreign Military Sales process and then followed that in 2018 with a deal for 30 Turkish Aerospace T129s worth $1.5 billion.

Source: Shimin Gu/Wikimedia Commons

But the AH-1Z sale has been on hold since US President Donald Trump cut security funding to Pakistan, and export sanctions related to the US-built LHTEC T800 engines which power the T129 has led to the suspension of that contract.

This impasse, and a pressing need to retire its fleet of 48 Bell AH-1Fs, is now pushing Islamabad to consider alternatives, Major General Syed Najeeb Ahmed, commander, army aviation, told Defence IQ’s International Military Helicopter conference in London on 26 February.

“We are looking at other options. One of them is in China in the shape of the new attack helicopter they have created called the Z-10ME,” he says. “In case the first two options do not materialise this third option will be considered.”

Pakistan had previously evaluated an earlier version of the CAIC Z-10, but Ahmed says the latest iteration has improved weapons and systems.

Source: Turkish Aerospace

Ahmed is extremely doubtful that the AH-1Z deal can be resurrected, and although Turkish Aerospace is developing an indigenous replacement engine for the T129, he is not confident that this will be ready in time.

In fact, Pakistan has set a deadline of July this year for a final decision, Ahmed says.

The relative urgency is driven by India’s capability increases, as New Delhi grows its fleet of Boeing AH-64E Apaches.

“The Cobras are no match for the Apaches that the Indians are getting,” he says. “We definitely want to match that [capability].”
https://www.flightglobal.com/helico...ck-of-stalled-ah-1z-t129-deals/136944.article

Air Platforms
Pakistan to buy Chinese attack helicopters if Turkey and US fail to deliver
Gareth Jennings, London - Jane's Defence Weekly
27 February 2020
Follow

RSS

The Chinese-built Z-10 attack helicopter could be procured by Pakistan should its first two preferences of the AH-1Z and T-129 not be delivered. Source: Via CCTV
Pakistan will procure the Chinese-built Z-10 attack helicopter if Turkey and the United States fail to deliver on their orders of the T-129 and AH-1Z respectively, a senior offer said on 26 February.

Speaking at the IQPC International Military Helicopter conference in London, the commander of Pakistan's Army Aviation, Major General Syed Najeeb Ahmed, said that the Changhe Aircraft Industries Corporation (CAIC) Z-10ME "remains an option" if the Turkish Aerospace T-129 and Bell AH-1Z Viper prove to be unobtainable for different reasons.

The Pakistan Army has a pressing need to replace its 32 ageing Bell AH-1 Cobra helicopters that have been in service for more than 30 years, with Gen Ahmed's predecessor, Major General Nasir D Shah, telling Jane's and other defence media in January 2018, "The AH-1 helicopters have provided effective close support for our ground forces engaged in counterinsurgency [COIN] operations, but they cannot be employed effectively in high-altitude operations above 8,000 ft."

In the near-term, the army partially offset these limitations with the four Mil Mi-35s that it ordered from Russian some years ago, and which were delivered to the country in late 2017. Further to the Mi-35s, it evaluated the AH-1Z, T-129, and the Z-10 attack helicopters.

In January 2016 it was announced that Bell had been awarded a contract for 12 AH-1Zs, and in April 2017 Jane's reported that the first three of 12 would be delivered in mid‐2017, with a second order to follow. However, the aircraft were yet to be delivered, and while there has been no official statement concerning reasons for delay it is understood to result from the current strained Pakistan-US relations.

Want to read more? For analysis on this article and access to Jane's unrivalled data and insight, learn more about our subscription options at janes.com/products

https://www.janes.com/article/94566...-helicopters-if-turkey-and-us-fail-to-deliver


So, July 2020 PA has to decide the attach helicopter

US has not granted any sales from turkey pak and others and looks like not going to happen by summer


Phillipeans, Azarbahijan, pak and one other Middle Eastern country want t-129 and none looks like Will get the engine simply to kill any competition

if Israeli Lavi could not survive with congressional support then Turkish heli has no chance



Let’s see if paa extends the waiver due to virus situation or move towards Chinese


Turkish engine options with testing will require years And not sure paa will wait min 3 /5 years

 

[dbc]

I wish US allows AH1Zs to Pakistan with latest weapons and avionics. Those are the hell of the beasts

It will be - its just Trump being Trump.

 

[Pakistani Fighter]

It will be - its just Trump being Trump.

What if Biden wins?

Phillipeans, Azarbahijan, pak and one other Middle Eastern country want t-129 and none looks like Will get the engine simply to kill any competition

Phillipines, Azeris and Pakistanis will move to China or Russia rather than US for helicopters

 

[dbc]

What if Biden wins?


Phillipines, Azeris and Pakistanis will move to China or Russia rather than US for helicopters

Biden will not win....I don't think Pakistan will be spending money on attack helicopters in the foreseeable future.
The coalition support funds will be released before then.

 

[Pakistani Fighter]

Biden will not win....I don't think Pakistan will be spending money on attack helicopters in the foreseeable future.
The coalition support funds will be released before then.

InshALLAH

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

Biden will not win....I don't think Pakistan will be spending money on attack helicopters in the foreseeable future.
The coalition support funds will be released before then.

Pakistan can also try diverting the CSF and FMF to C-130s and other HADR-relevant equipment (in case the US outright refuses to release the AH-1Zs). Not as if Pakistan's short of equipment needs in other areas.

 

[farooqbhai007]

How many Z-10's have China ordered? 118 seems too low? Any idea why?

wiki pedia states 300+ built

 

[Pakistani Fighter]

CSF and FMF for C-130s

They are more important than upgradation of F16s?