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The PAF is set to receive a batch of Egyptian Air Force Mirage-Vs

I mentioned this earlier, but I suppose people didn't take much notice to it because (a) They/we don't know. (b) They/We don't care.

Q. How much have we spent on these jets from Egypt?

(If) its not a staggering figure and that one the Ministry of Defense are okay to cough up - great.

Bear in mind, India after 4-5 Years has all of a sudden woken up from cryogenic sleep and started listening to their Air Force about the static decrease in Squadrons. Now the finance has finally kicked in with orders for Rafales, the Craigslist Funding $900 Million for the 21 MiG-29's and possibly another order - in the coming months [Rafales, Gripen, Su-30, MiG-35, F-18 and the F-21].

The JF-17's aren't coming off the assembly line for the PAF for free & nor are we getting those Russian/China engines via charity. And discussed over a 100 times a week - that we do not have funds to counter India with (orders of) new jets.

Finally, for the F-16 enthusiasts..., with the PAF spending whatever (little) funds we did have on getting these jets from Egypt - Did we just give up on any (possible) hope of getting used F-16's?

There are still hope for the used F-16s. Just like PTI has different groups (Tareen group, Qureshi group, Aleeem Khan group), there are also groups in USA government and some would like to have a good relationship with Pakistan.
 
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I'm interested to know how many would be in condition to fly. Can't hurt PAF to have 10-12 more on the runways.
 
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Egyptian_Mirage_5_at_Cairo-West_1985.JPEG
 
"PAF" Stop spending my tax money to old useless shit, why pay for scrap we will be only using for parts.
 
I mentioned this earlier, but I suppose people didn't take much notice to it because (a) They/we don't know. (b) They/We don't care.

Q. How much have we spent on these jets from Egypt?

(If) its not a staggering figure and that one the Ministry of Defense are okay to cough up - great.

Bear in mind, India after 4-5 Years has all of a sudden woken up from cryogenic sleep and started listening to their Air Force about the static decrease in Squadrons. Now the finance has finally kicked in with orders for Rafales, the Craigslist Funding $900 Million for the 21 MiG-29's and possibly another order - in the coming months [Rafales, Gripen, Su-30, MiG-35, F-18 and the F-21].

The JF-17's aren't coming off the assembly line for the PAF for free & nor are we getting those Russian/China engines via charity. And discussed over a 100 times a week - that we do not have funds to counter India with (orders of) new jets.

Finally, for the F-16 enthusiasts..., with the PAF spending whatever (little) funds we did have on getting these jets from Egypt - Did we just give up on any (possible) hope of getting used F-16's?
Trust me if USA allows used f16 PAF is going to jump at it..funds or no funds

"PAF" Stop spending my tax money to old useless shit, why pay for scrap we will be only using for parts.
This scrap is flying for 22 years (since it was called scrap, otherwise 50+ years) and launched strikes at India ..it wasnt the thunder or the f16

They go a complete rebuild in kamara
 
Trust me if USA allows used f16 PAF is going to jump at it..funds or no funds


This scrap is flying for 22 years (since it was called scrap, otherwise 50+ years) and launched strikes at India ..it wasnt the thunder or the f16

They go a complete rebuild in kamara

If they can rebuild, why not go for own version of mirage just like Israel. I know we cannot do that
 
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When the guys on the Mirage's heard that MORE Mirage's were on their way & that they won't be moving up on the JF-17's - until 2030...

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Guys why the obsession with Mirage 2000 this aircraft is out of production. if we get them for free it would still cost us an arm and a leg . new engine Overhaul facilities for SNECMA M53 Engines new weapons system MICA which your enemy already has...and knows it well radar which your enemy already has knows it well. what it can do - knows it well.

We just destroyed Rafale superiority 1 and half year back by knowing it completely why would we use the same airplane that india is using for last 35-40 years. are we crazy!

why India did not ordered Block 70/72 just because we have operated them (legacy generation) for 35-40 Years..

This Fetish with Mirage 2000 should stop!



Egyptians Ordered New Rafales, MiG-29s and now i think Su-35s its logical that they have phased out Mirages 5s Horus or non upgraded ones...much better for them if they have a buyer..you know scraping also cost money. after all they are getting money out of this deal and its not like they have buyers lining up to take them..
Apart from f16 the only other option is typhoon from Italy used or new ..

From western equipments Italy is a relaible patner, we also have south african and turkish suppliers but rest are drying up as India pushes hard..

mirage2000 is not an option given french behavior and lack of spares..

Unlike mirage5 mirage2000 users will be limited to france and any spares we will be dependent upon them

If they can rebuild, why not go for own version of mirage just like Israel. I know we cannot do that
Rebuild using old frames..we already have jf17..why build another plan?

Remeber the wings lose life sooner than fuselages ..we simply replace older worn out parts with less worn out parts from another airframe
 
Because PAF leadership is stupid, government is giving them billions of Dollars to purchase F22's but they love 50 year old mirages, or maybe because our previous governments have drowned our economy in chin deep shit...



Why aren't we replacing 5 decades old Mirages with planes like J-10 ??
 
Two major strike squadrons of PAF fly Mirage-V aircrafts. PAF uses Mirage III in in Air combat role and Mirage-V in strike role. There are two main issues, procurement and then upgrades. lets look at the three types of aircrafts that PAF wants to keep flying earnestly; JF-17, F-16, Mirage III/V.

JF-17 is being procured and upgraded by PAF. Whenever F-16 is procured, its upgraded by TAI and quality checked by LM USA, as seen in recent past. The Mirages have been extensively upgraded, the money has been invested already. There is obviously the ROSE upgrade, but the rest of the fleet has been upgraded to a certain extent too. Replacing Mirages still requires alot of investment, in the form of a new aircraft, which after procurement will again go through upgrades to reach parity and commonality with JF-17 at least or F-16 if its a western aircraft. The Mirage V which took part in LOC strike were non-ROSE but definitely upgraded.

During an analysis with another member here on PDF (cant remember now who he was). we observed that PAF Mirages squadrons are mixed, which means they fly both Mirage III and Mirage V in same squadron. Mirage III provides AD/escort and Mirage V is used for strike. Basically self sufficient squadron. However, the strike showed something different. JF-17 on escort, Mirage-V on strike, and now since PAF is getting Mirage-V's, this could mean that Mirage III would be the next to go after F-7P/PG's. The importance of Mirage III still holds since Ra'ad ALCM was tested on it. Operationally, PAF has shown that JF-17 and Mirage-V's are set to be paired together in an event of war.

Mirage V differentiates from Mirage III in terms of two more hard points, better rate of climb and a longer nose. Its also said to carry more fuel and more ordnance than Mirage III. The versatility of Mirage V can be seen by the fact that it holds two major dedicated roles in PAF: night time strike and Naval support. These roles are shared with JF-17 and F-16 now.

Coming back to procurement and up-gradation. The plus points in this acquisition is saving cost in terms of:
1. Weaponry: PAF wouldn't need to acquire and integrate new weapons.
2. Infrastructure, training, pilot hours, simulations etc.
3. Upgrading EAF's Mirages V's to ROSE standard is not required since, these can be used as spares for ROSE or other upgraded versions. Basically, if these aircrafts can help ROSE squadrons fly for another 20 years through cannibalism for spares, then this acquisition is worth it.

If they are deemed proficient in terms of lesser flying hours, then yes induction and possibly upgrades are possible. This would still depend, these can be used to replace other aircrafts or can also be used to increase inventory. In the former, replacing systems from old frames into new frames would be done, while in latter, induction will take place with better avionics and systems. Its up to PAF to decide the path, it wants to take.

Regarding Mirage 2000, PAF will see feasibility from all pov's. Cost of induction, infrastructure, upgrades, weaponry, training, simulators and finally frame life. F-16 still has production line running, it has a major MLU plan in process, not just M-3 or M-5 but also V-standard now. JF-17 has newer blocks coming in, probably upto Block IV. So cost wise., Mirage 2000 will always be costlier. Comparing capability, yes Mirage 2000 is much more capable than Mirage V. So Mirage 2000 justifies its cost vis a vis Mirage V, but compared to F-16 or JF-17, their capability comes at a lower cost than Mirage-2000. The Ra'ad issue still exists; which can be solved through a different platform or redesigning the ALCM itself.
 
As I heard and know, Egypt is going to get the Emiraiti Mirage 2000s to support and increase the number of its Mirage 2000 fleet (18-20 fighter jets). I heard also that PAF is getting the Mirage 5 Horus fleet (around 70 fighter jets- may be confused with the number of Egyptian F-4 Phantoms that were put OOS since 2010) to support its fleet or even to be used as spare parts when needed. Sometimes quick temporary solutions are needed.

Out of context, I personally trust the French made fighters even if they’re obsolete.
 
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Two major strike squadrons of PAF fly Mirage-V aircrafts. PAF uses Mirage III in in Air combat role and Mirage-V in strike role. There are two main issues, procurement and then upgrades. lets look at the three types of aircrafts that PAF wants to keep flying earnestly; JF-17, F-16, Mirage III/V.

JF-17 is being procured and upgraded by PAF. Whenever F-16 is procured, its upgraded by TAI and quality checked by LM USA, as seen in recent past. The Mirages have been extensively upgraded, the money has been invested already. There is obviously the ROSE upgrade, but the rest of the fleet has been upgraded to a certain extent too. Replacing Mirages still requires alot of investment, in the form of a new aircraft, which after procurement will again go through upgrades to reach parity and commonality with JF-17 at least or F-16 if its a western aircraft. The Mirage V which took part in LOC strike were non-ROSE but definitely upgraded.

During an analysis with another member here on PDF (cant remember now who he was). we observed that PAF Mirages squadrons are mixed, which means they fly both Mirage III and Mirage V in same squadron. Mirage III provides AD/escort and Mirage V is used for strike. Basically self sufficient squadron. However, the strike showed something different. JF-17 on escort, Mirage-V on strike, and now since PAF is getting Mirage-V's, this could mean that Mirage III would be the next to go after F-7P/PG's. The importance of Mirage III still holds since Ra'ad ALCM was tested on it. Operationally, PAF has shown that JF-17 and Mirage-V's are set to be paired together in an event of war.

Mirage V differentiates from Mirage III in terms of two more hard points, better rate of climb and a longer nose. Its also said to carry more fuel and more ordnance than Mirage III. The versatility of Mirage V can be seen by the fact that it holds two major dedicated roles in PAF: night time strike and Naval support. These roles are shared with JF-17 and F-16 now.

Coming back to procurement and up-gradation. The plus points in this acquisition is saving cost in terms of:
1. Weaponry: PAF wouldn't need to acquire and integrate new weapons.
2. Infrastructure, training, pilot hours, simulations etc.
3. Upgrading EAF's Mirages V's to ROSE standard is not required since, these can be used as spares for ROSE or other upgraded versions. Basically, if these aircrafts can help ROSE squadrons fly for another 20 years through cannibalism for spares, then this acquisition is worth it.

If they are deemed proficient in terms of lesser flying hours, then yes induction and possibly upgrades are possible. This would still depend, these can be used to replace other aircrafts or can also be used to increase inventory. In the former, replacing systems from old frames into new frames would be done, while in latter, induction will take place with better avionics and systems. Its up to PAF to decide the path, it wants to take.

Regarding Mirage 2000, PAF will see feasibility from all pov's. Cost of induction, infrastructure, upgrades, weaponry, training, simulators and finally frame life. F-16 still has production line running, it has a major MLU plan in process, not just M-3 or M-5 but also V-standard now. JF-17 has newer blocks coming in, probably upto Block IV. So cost wise., Mirage 2000 will always be costlier. Comparing capability, yes Mirage 2000 is much more capable than Mirage V. So Mirage 2000 justifies its cost vis a vis Mirage V, but compared to F-16 or JF-17, their capability comes at a lower cost than Mirage-2000. The Ra'ad issue still exists; which can be solved through a different platform or redesigning the ALCM itself.
thank you sir for your analysis
 
Two major strike squadrons of PAF fly Mirage-V aircrafts. PAF uses Mirage III in in Air combat role and Mirage-V in strike role. There are two main issues, procurement and then upgrades. lets look at the three types of aircrafts that PAF wants to keep flying earnestly; JF-17, F-16, Mirage III/V.

JF-17 is being procured and upgraded by PAF. Whenever F-16 is procured, its upgraded by TAI and quality checked by LM USA, as seen in recent past. The Mirages have been extensively upgraded, the money has been invested already. There is obviously the ROSE upgrade, but the rest of the fleet has been upgraded to a certain extent too. Replacing Mirages still requires alot of investment, in the form of a new aircraft, which after procurement will again go through upgrades to reach parity and commonality with JF-17 at least or F-16 if its a western aircraft. The Mirage V which took part in LOC strike were non-ROSE but definitely upgraded.

During an analysis with another member here on PDF (cant remember now who he was). we observed that PAF Mirages squadrons are mixed, which means they fly both Mirage III and Mirage V in same squadron. Mirage III provides AD/escort and Mirage V is used for strike. Basically self sufficient squadron. However, the strike showed something different. JF-17 on escort, Mirage-V on strike, and now since PAF is getting Mirage-V's, this could mean that Mirage III would be the next to go after F-7P/PG's. The importance of Mirage III still holds since Ra'ad ALCM was tested on it. Operationally, PAF has shown that JF-17 and Mirage-V's are set to be paired together in an event of war.

Mirage V differentiates from Mirage III in terms of two more hard points, better rate of climb and a longer nose. Its also said to carry more fuel and more ordnance than Mirage III. The versatility of Mirage V can be seen by the fact that it holds two major dedicated roles in PAF: night time strike and Naval support. These roles are shared with JF-17 and F-16 now.

Coming back to procurement and up-gradation. The plus points in this acquisition is saving cost in terms of:
1. Weaponry: PAF wouldn't need to acquire and integrate new weapons.
2. Infrastructure, training, pilot hours, simulations etc.
3. Upgrading EAF's Mirages V's to ROSE standard is not required since, these can be used as spares for ROSE or other upgraded versions. Basically, if these aircrafts can help ROSE squadrons fly for another 20 years through cannibalism for spares, then this acquisition is worth it.

If they are deemed proficient in terms of lesser flying hours, then yes induction and possibly upgrades are possible. This would still depend, these can be used to replace other aircrafts or can also be used to increase inventory. In the former, replacing systems from old frames into new frames would be done, while in latter, induction will take place with better avionics and systems. Its up to PAF to decide the path, it wants to take.

Regarding Mirage 2000, PAF will see feasibility from all pov's. Cost of induction, infrastructure, upgrades, weaponry, training, simulators and finally frame life. F-16 still has production line running, it has a major MLU plan in process, not just M-3 or M-5 but also V-standard now. JF-17 has newer blocks coming in, probably upto Block IV. So cost wise., Mirage 2000 will always be costlier. Comparing capability, yes Mirage 2000 is much more capable than Mirage V. So Mirage 2000 justifies its cost vis a vis Mirage V, but compared to F-16 or JF-17, their capability comes at a lower cost than Mirage-2000. The Ra'ad issue still exists; which can be solved through a different platform or redesigning the ALCM itself.
What are weapons of Mirage III for Air to Air??
 
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