The origins of tribes across Pakistan and Hindustan

[qamar1990]

That doesn't sound right... Gujjars are agreed to be either of Iranian or Turkish descent.

Anyway, I'm the same (Gujjar Khatana, well mostly anyway, haven't got a clue about my genetics though).

Are the results anymore specific?

basically 23 and me is garbage... because even pushtuns are considered south asians by them... tamils are considered same as punjabis... but that .03

 

[Talwar e Pakistan]

im a gujjar khatana and i did 23 and me dna testing...
im 99.7 percent south asian and .03 percent western european...

DNA tests are pretty inaccurate, they found that out after they tested it on twins and most of them had very different results.

Especially "23 and me", it was very erroneous for them to group "South Asian" as a single unit.

That doesn't sound right... Gujjars are agreed to be either of Iranian or Turkish descent.

Anyway, I'm the same (Gujjar Khatana, well mostly anyway, haven't got a clue about my genetics though).

Are the results anymore specific?

I'm a Gujjar as well.

Gujjars are not of Iranian or Turkish descent. It is agreed that they did however most likely originate from Central Asia as Indo-Scythians, White Huns or Khazars and share their origins with Jatts and possibly Rajputs as well.

A North Indian Brahmin is my Ethnicity/Race/Identity beside Indian.

yeah, so... everyone knows who we are.

for understanding our Ethnicity and social structure you can compare us with Rajputs, Prashtuns, Baloch or Kurds.

I am comparing Indic Brahmins , Rajput with Iranic Pushtuns as an example.

laws of Society : Pustunwali - Manusmriti - Kshatriya Dharma
Ethnicity : Pustun - Brahmin - Rajput/Kshatriya
R1a/Aryan : Yes - Yes - Yes
Language : Puktun - Sanskrit - Rajasthani
Homeland : Pastunistan - KAshmir to Punjab-Hariyana/Brahamavarta -Rajasthan
Ancestry : from Abdur Rashid - From sepetersi/7 sages of Vedic Period. - royal Tribes of Kshatriya

Jay Parashuram !

North Indian Brahmins cannot be compared with Rajputs, Pashtuns, Baloch or Kurds.

The closest Indian ethnic group to Pakistani or Iranic ethnic groups are the Kashmiri Pandits who are surprisingly close to Pakistani Sindhis in genetics but still farther compared with Sindhis from groups such as Kurds, Baloch or Pashtuns.

 

[TheBlackCoat]

Is the word "caste" synonymous to the word "tribe"?

 

[Khafee]

Is the word "caste" synonymous to the word "tribe"?

No.

 

[Azadkashmir]

so who is massalli

 

[Proudpakistaniguy]

I am janjua and i think origin has been discussed so many times so will not bother again but i am from kahuta

 

[lastofthepatriots]

I am janjua and i think origin has been discussed so many times so will not bother again but i am from kahuta

According to Indians you are not a real Rajput.

 

[Proudpakistaniguy]

According to Indians you are not a real Rajput.

Who care about Indian? They cannot digest this fact that Rajputs were converted into Islam
They have their own complexes but it dont matter to me

But i guess its Indian historian who wrote this

https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-history-of-Janjua-Rajputs

 

[lastofthepatriots]

Who care about Indian? They cannot digest this fact that Rajputs were converted into Islam
They have their own complexes but it dont matter to me

But i guess its Indian historian who wrote this

https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-history-of-Janjua-Rajputs

Funny thing is Janjuas are considered purest Rajputs of Punjab. Indians are always jealous.

 

[Proudpakistaniguy]

Funny thing is Janjuas are considered purest Rajputs of Punjab. Indians are always jealous.

Indians are most confuse people . They have problem with everything
They will moan if someone will claim arab/Persian origin
and they will also moan when someone claim to be native
Their enmity with Islam and Pakistan dont let them embrace the truth but well we should not care about Indians . they are not important lol

 

[django]

North Indian Brahmins cannot be compared with Rajputs, Pashtuns, Baloch or Kurds.

The closest Indian ethnic group to Pakistani or Iranic ethnic groups are the Kashmiri Pandits who are surprisingly close to Pakistani Sindhis in genetics but still farther compared with Sindhis from groups such as Kurds, Baloch or Pashtuns.

Bro this is the same confused chap @Brahmarshi who is always on about eye color, one day he is a Bihari Brahmin, the next from the Kabukl Shahi , he is totally envious of folk who are from the Ghandaran region,,,, he is best ignored and reported.Kudos

 

[Hamza913]

DNA tests are pretty inaccurate, they found that out after they tested it on twins and most of them had very different results.

Especially "23 and me", it was very erroneous for them to group "South Asian" as a single unit.


I'm a Gujjar as well.

Gujjars are not of Iranian or Turkish descent. It is agreed that they did however most likely originate from Central Asia as Indo-Scythians, White Huns or Khazars and share their origins with Jatts and possibly Rajputs as well.


North Indian Brahmins cannot be compared with Rajputs, Pashtuns, Baloch or Kurds.

The closest Indian ethnic group to Pakistani or Iranic ethnic groups are the Kashmiri Pandits who are surprisingly close to Pakistani Sindhis in genetics but still farther compared with Sindhis from groups such as Kurds, Baloch or Pashtuns.

Indo Scythians and White Huns were Iranian, and Khazars were Turkish.

I'm not talking about the region we actually came from, but the ethnicity/language of our ancestors (Khazars spoke a Turkic language, Indo-Scythians and White Huns spoke an Iranic one).

I agree that the services which offer genetic testing are complete BS, but that's all we can work with so it is better than nothing I guess.

basically 23 and me is garbage... because even pushtuns are considered south asians by them... tamils are considered same as punjabis... but that .03

Yeah so I've heard lol.

Is the word "caste" synonymous to the word "tribe"?

No, caste is the social heirachy. You have some tribes that belong to a high caste, and others to a low caste. It's a terrible system that's slowly eroding away.

A tribe is just used to describe a bunch of people who are related to one another and have a relatively recent common ancestor.

 

[Imad.Khan]

I am a Yousafzai Pukhtun and @Mian Babban knows more about my tribe than I do.

 

[Proudpakistaniguy]

Guys you should visit this site which provide plenty of information about different tribes in Punjab

https://newpakhistorian.wordpress.com/

I was surprised about this detail information they provided about Janjua tribes in photohar and even mentioned the branches of Janjuas and their distribution in different villages of Rawalpindi and surrounding areas


The Janjua tribal history begins with Raja Ajmal Dev Janjua, who embraced Islam in the 12th century due to his love for Sufi art, poetry and teachings. Rai/Raja Mal followed the Islamic tradition of change of name after conversion and was then known as Raja Mal Khan. Mal Khan is said to have four sons, Bhir, Jodh, Kala and Khakha. From the last descend the Khakha of Kashmir, whose branch the Tezyal I have already looked at in an earlier post. From Jodh descends the Dhamial, from Bhir the Ranial, from Kala, the Gaharwal, and their branch the Jatal. In Chakwal and Jhelum, many Jatal and Dhamial now consider themselves to be Jats.

The main branches of the Janjua are:

Dhamial

Gaharwal

Khakha

Ranial





Dhamial

Dhamial (also written as Dhamyal) Like the other tribes looked, some sections of the Dhamial claim Jat status, while other stress the fact that they are Rajput. The Dhamial are chiefly found in the Rawalpindi District but also in Gujrat District, Jhelum District and Attock District of the Punjab and Mirpur District of Azad Kashmir. In Azad Kashmir, the Dhamial are the second largest Rajput-Jat tribe in the state. With regards to their origins, the Dhamial have a number of traditions as to there origin. Most however agree that they are descended from a Raja Dhami Khan, hence the name Dhami al, or sons of Dhami. They also point to the town of Dhamiak in Jhelum District as to where the tribe originated from. According to one of the traditions, Raja Dhami Khan came from Ghazni in Afghanistan, built a fort in Dhamiak, the ruins of which are still in existence, and defeted the Gakhar rulers of the region to establish control. The fort is still known in the local vernacular as dhami kot (fort of dhami in Punjabi), and the town of Dhamiak is simply said to be a corruption of the word dhami kot. Most traditions however claim that Dhami Khan was a Janjua Rajput, and they are infact a clan of the Janjua tribe. In the early thirteenth century, the Janjua chieftain, Raja Mal Khan rose to prominence. He increased his dominion over Hazara (later renamed Amb) through his son Raja Tanoli, Jhelum through his son Raja Jodh, parts of Kashmir through Raja Khakha, Rajghar (later renamed Malot) in Chakwal through his eldest Raja Bhir and what is today forms the area of Kahuta tehsil through Raja Kala Khan. Tarikh-e-Alfi of the Ghorids makes a mention of the rise to power of Raja Mal. According to Lepel H. Griffin, in Chiefs and Families of note in the Punjab (Lahore, 1910, ii, p254)

””On the death of their father, they determined to divide the country called, from Raja Mal, the Maloki Dhan between them. Jodh took the Salt Range near about the Makrach, and captured the town of Makshala from a colony of Brahmins (Mohyals)…He changed its name to Makhiala and built a fort there and two tanks for rain water….. Wir Khan (also spelt Bhir), took the possession of Khura (also spelt Khewra) near modern Pind Dadan Khan.””
The descendants of Raja Jodh continued to rule this region through various interruptions until the time of the Sikh ruler Ranjit Singh. Raja Bhir meanwhile took over the Malot (Rajghar) state from his father. It was in this tradition that Raja Bhir’s later descendant, Raja Malu Khan, allying his cousin Raja Mubarak Khan who was the descendant of Raja Jodh Khan, gained control of the region of Dhamial and Ranial. Latter in the post I shall look at the Ranial branch.



Villages in Jhelum and Chakwal

Presently, the Dhamial, both Jat and Rajput are found in Rawalpindi, Chakwal, Jhelum and Mirpur districts. Dhamial villages in Jhelum District include Kotla Faqir, Mamuri Dhamial, Mohra Lal, Hathia Dhamial, Dheri Dhamial and Rakha Dhamial. The town of Dhamiak remains the centre of the tribe in the district. In neighbouring Chakwal District, important Dhamial villages include Dohrian, Dhoke Bangwalian, Dhok Qutab Din, Dhok Alfo near Mangwal, Ghanwal, Chak Jharray, Chak Kharak, Sohawa, and Kot Raja.



Villages in Rawalpindi District

Looking at each individual tehsil of Rawalpindi District starting with Gujar Khan Tehsil:

1) Aheer

2) Chak Dolat

3) Chak Rajgan

4) Chechi Bahadur

5) Dhamial

6) Dhok Baba Waris

7) Dhok Kund

8) Dolmi Dhamial

9) Gasroor

10) Jajja

11) Jhamath

12) Miani Borgi

13) Mohra Hafyal

14) Mohra Salyal,

15) Mohra Dhamial

16) Mohra Jundi

17) Natta Mohra

17) Ratala,

Rawalpindi Tehsil:

1) Bajnial

2) Dhamial

3) Khail Dhamyal

4) Safair

5) Sher Dhamial,

Kallar Syedan Tehsil,

1) Bhai Mehr Ali

2) Dhamali,

3) Dhok Attari, near Bhalakhar

4) Dhok Pakka Khoo,

5) Dhok Baba Mehru near Khanpur,

6) Mawa Dhamyal

7) Mohra Phadyal

8) Pari Nakkah near Bhalakhar,

9) Phagwari Gala

10) Sahib Dhamial

and in Kahuta Tehsil: Aliot.

Moving to Azad Kashmir, they are found in the villages of Kandoor, Samlota, Chakswari, Daggar, Dehri Dhamial and Nakkah Dhamial.

Gaharwal

We now look at the Gaharwal or sometimes pronounced Kaharwal, who are a Rajput clan. According to the 1931 Census of India, they numbered approximately 1,600.

The Gaharwal claim descent from Pir Kala, a son of Raja Mal Dev Janjua, who married Kaho Rani when he came to the Kahuta hills, and named the ilaqua Kahru after her. Hence the descendants are called Kahrwal. The Dulal is a sub-division of the tribe. This branch should not be confused with the Dolal Qureshis of Gujar Khan Tehsil. To sum up, the Gaharwal, like the Dhamyal and Jatal, referred in my earlier post, are a branch of the Janjua Rajputs.

The Kahrwal Janjua’s are found in the Kahuta and Kallar Saidan Tehsils of the Rawalpindi District. Important Gaharwal villages include Matore, Bagla, Darkali, Mamyaam, Guff Sanghal ,Mehra Sanghal , Pind-Bansoo and Blong. In Kallar Syedan they are found in Sehi Rajgan.



Jatal


The Jatal are a tribe of both Jat and Rajput status, who claim descent from Jatto Khan, a Janjua Rajput, who belonged the Gaharwal branch. So they are in fact sub-group of the Gaharwal. They are extremely localized, found in only in the districts of Rawalpindi and Jhelum. Like other Rajputs tribes of the region, they have a long and distinguished history of military service. Important Jatal villages include Aheer, Lakho, Mohraian, Jatal Sukhroo and Repa in Gujar Khan Tehsil, Jatal and Jatal Durab in Rawalpindi Tehsil and Nandna Jatal and Tirkhi in Kallar Syedan Tehsil . While in Jhelum District, they are found mainly in Jhelum and Dina tehsils. In the Islamabad Capital Territory, Jatal are foind in Gagri village.

Ranial

I shall finally look at the Ranial branch of the Janjuas. Like the other branches, the Ranial trace their descent from Raja Mal Khan, the traditional ancestor of the Janjua tribe. As I have already discussed in my account of the Dhamial, the Ranial branch of the Janjua descend from Raja Bhir, who was the erstwhile ruler of Malot (Rajghar) state in Chakwal, and from him descended, Raja Malu Khan, who was the direct ancestor of the Ranials. Raja Malu Khan was allied with Mubarak Khan, the Dhamial. According to the Tehreek-e-Janjua (Sahiwal Press, v1, p224), these two Rajas employed a sudden military onslaught to conquer the areas of Ranial and Dhamial. Through the repute of their military success, they were able to win the neighbouring gentry over to their own side and established good relations with them. Raja Malu took the area of Hayal Ranial whilst Raja Mubarak took the Dhamial plain. Interestingly, Raja Malu’s offspring were known as the Rajas of Ranial and Raja Mubarak’s offspring likewise, were known as the Rajas of Dhamial. This later culminated in the recognition of these two branches as simply Ranial Rajas and Dhamial Rajas. Being neighbours, they taxed their subjects separately, but followed common policies on other matters such as the supply of soldiers to the Mughal emperors, cultivation and trade.

Family tree

The Ranial Rajputs are linked ancestrally to the Janjuas through Raja Malu Khan, who was a descendant of Raja Bhir as illustrated below:

Raja Mal Khan, the Janjua king
|
Raja Bhir, the elder son of Raja Mal Khan
|
Raja Acharpal (later converted to Islam and was renamed Raja Ahmed Khan)
|
Raja Sunpal
|
Raja Islam-ud-din
|
Raja Noor-ud-din
|
Raja Daulat Khan
|
Raja Hans Khan
|
Raja Malu Khan (during Jehangir’s reign [1605-28])

Some of Raja Malu Khan’s descendants settled in Nambal in Kallar Syedan Tehsil of Rawalpindi, immigrating from Malot, in Chakwal District(the ancestral kingdom of Raja Bhir who inherited it from his father, Raja Mal Khan). Raja Malu Khan was one of five brothers. The other brothers were: Raja Sadu Khan: whose descendants are settled in the area of Sehel Tehsil and Pindi Gheb, Raja Nadyam Khan: whose descendants are in Harajpur Pind and Pind Dadan Khan Tehsil, Raja Babul (who was the Minister of Maral Garh): whose descendants are settled in the Murali district in Chakwal and Raja Jangu Khan: whose descendants are settled in Dana, Khanpur and Dadan Chey.

https://newpakhistorian.wordpress.com/tag/janjua-rajputs/

 

[Brahmarshi]

In Punjab real janjuas/Hindu janjuas claims That origins.