Well.wisher
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Hello ,
I know nothing about my tribe neither I care .
I know nothing about my tribe neither I care .
The origins of tribes across Pakistan and Hindustan
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lastofthepatriots
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You are from Baba Adam.
El Sidd
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Never asked.
Never cared.
This is a very primitive mindset which thankfully is fading away in Pakistan.
!eon
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Chachu You look like south western eastern Nordic
El Sidd
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Hamza913
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Primitive would be using this as a point of pride.
Merely discussing our origins is perfectly normal, it's good to know our history.
El Sidd
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Start excavation of the Indus valley then.
If you are serious.
Otherwise this is just a caste system thread
Hamza913
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Well, I can't go over there and start digging.
We all know about Indus Valley, Gandhara, etc. Why not talk about something else?
This isn't a caste thread, nobody has brought up caste so far except for you.
El Sidd
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Eventually it will go down the road.
Why make things complicated I say?
Discuss current affairs or defence affairs. This comes in neither of the two categories.
I am out of the thread.
Hajjatul wida the last sermon cannot be more clear on this.
Azadkashmir
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you all jungli anyway.
Pakistani E
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For me to make any personal contribution on this thread, I am going to have to set down some personal rules. I must first of all clarify I do not believe in any caste system, neither do I believe any human being is above another in anyway possible. All humans are related to each other, having common descent. We must not use any differences in ethnicity, tribe, nationality, religion or beliefs to hate each other.
With that out of the way, and returning to the question posed in the OP, this topic is particularly difficult to answer conclusively for many tribes living in the areas of Pakistan. Most of us have been here for thousands of years, and identity, as we know, is not a static entity. On the contrary, it is extremely fluid, so what we may have identified 500-1000 years ago, may be completely different to before. And maybe in the future, people will choose to identify as something completely different. One last thing, for the love of God, this is purely an academic topic, but I will still relegate myself to only Awans because people get touchy if I mention others and make mistakes. We are all humans, and then whatever else we choose to identify as. No one is questioning or critiquing that.
With the formalities out of the way, let's begin with the different theories put forward for the Awans by different historians throughout the years.
Alexander Cunningham considered the Awans as Rajput clan. While Harikishan Kaul is more generic and says they may be of Jatt or Rajput origin. He points to the fact that in Sanskrit, the term Awan means “defender” or “protector” and asserting that this title was awarded by surrounding tribes due to the Awans successfully defending their strongholds against aggression. Arthur Brandreth believed the Awans to be remnants of Bactrian Greeks.
Meanwhile, the late Professor Dani, an expert who's words I give far more credibility to than any mentioned above, believed the Awans were indigenous to Northern Punjab and may be the ancient Abani mentioned by Greek and Roman Historians and travelers. Proffessor HP Gupta, also believed the Awans are the 'Abanii' or 'Avanii' mentioned by the above.
I personally believe that the modern day tribe of Awans do not have a single point of origin, as different studies all point to different origin for the people that are now classed as Awans. The vast proponent of this section is likely to be indigenous, but where the origin comes from remains a mystery. For example, I posted a study sometime ago in Pakistan History section that suggested that there were two related, but still distinct groups of Awans, at least in the North West of Pakistan. I will quote from that thread below:
"The distances among Awan population of the nearly collection sites in Mansehra and their close affinities with the people of far placed Wakhis and Khowars needs further explanations."
Furthermore, "In case for Awans all the analyses indicate that the phenetic affinities between the samples collected even from different villages of Mansehra District are not that clear which can be taken as standard for the group. The samples of Khowars are interposed in between the Awans as visible in figure 11. Neighbor-joining cluster analysis and MDS with Kruskal’s method indicate that sample of Awans (AWAm2) is much more proximate phenetically to Khowars, than the sample of Awans collected by Hemphill (AWAm1)."
"The Principle Coordinate analysis shows that the sample of Awans collected by Hemphill (AWAm1) is identified as possessing closer affinities to Khowar than the samples of Awans (AWAm2) collected and analyzed during the present study. All analyses indicate that the Awans samples link Awans to the Swatis and Madaklasht on the one hand and to the two Wakhi samples on the other. Analysis through MDS and PCO indicates that the affinities between AWAm1 and Swatis are much closer than the affinity between the sample of Awans and the inhabitants of Madaklasht. All analyses, except PCO indicate that the samples 109 of Wakhis from Gulmit (WAKg) are more similar phenetically to Hemphill’s sample of Awans than is the sample of Wakhis from Sost."
"A synthesis from our results analyzed with the available information shows that the ethnic groups of the northern Pakistan, based on the patterns of their phenetic affinities can be divided into two main groups among which, the Awans, Tanolis and Swatis are affiliated with ethnic groups of the Hindu Kush Himalayan highlands..."
This points to a muddled picture, already disputing the common descent of Awans from a single individual by the name of Qutab-Shah who is reported to have come from Afghanistan in the 11th century.
Just my two cents @dsr478
With that out of the way, and returning to the question posed in the OP, this topic is particularly difficult to answer conclusively for many tribes living in the areas of Pakistan. Most of us have been here for thousands of years, and identity, as we know, is not a static entity. On the contrary, it is extremely fluid, so what we may have identified 500-1000 years ago, may be completely different to before. And maybe in the future, people will choose to identify as something completely different. One last thing, for the love of God, this is purely an academic topic, but I will still relegate myself to only Awans because people get touchy if I mention others and make mistakes. We are all humans, and then whatever else we choose to identify as. No one is questioning or critiquing that.
With the formalities out of the way, let's begin with the different theories put forward for the Awans by different historians throughout the years.
Alexander Cunningham considered the Awans as Rajput clan. While Harikishan Kaul is more generic and says they may be of Jatt or Rajput origin. He points to the fact that in Sanskrit, the term Awan means “defender” or “protector” and asserting that this title was awarded by surrounding tribes due to the Awans successfully defending their strongholds against aggression. Arthur Brandreth believed the Awans to be remnants of Bactrian Greeks.
Meanwhile, the late Professor Dani, an expert who's words I give far more credibility to than any mentioned above, believed the Awans were indigenous to Northern Punjab and may be the ancient Abani mentioned by Greek and Roman Historians and travelers. Proffessor HP Gupta, also believed the Awans are the 'Abanii' or 'Avanii' mentioned by the above.
I personally believe that the modern day tribe of Awans do not have a single point of origin, as different studies all point to different origin for the people that are now classed as Awans. The vast proponent of this section is likely to be indigenous, but where the origin comes from remains a mystery. For example, I posted a study sometime ago in Pakistan History section that suggested that there were two related, but still distinct groups of Awans, at least in the North West of Pakistan. I will quote from that thread below:
"The distances among Awan population of the nearly collection sites in Mansehra and their close affinities with the people of far placed Wakhis and Khowars needs further explanations."
Furthermore, "In case for Awans all the analyses indicate that the phenetic affinities between the samples collected even from different villages of Mansehra District are not that clear which can be taken as standard for the group. The samples of Khowars are interposed in between the Awans as visible in figure 11. Neighbor-joining cluster analysis and MDS with Kruskal’s method indicate that sample of Awans (AWAm2) is much more proximate phenetically to Khowars, than the sample of Awans collected by Hemphill (AWAm1)."
"The Principle Coordinate analysis shows that the sample of Awans collected by Hemphill (AWAm1) is identified as possessing closer affinities to Khowar than the samples of Awans (AWAm2) collected and analyzed during the present study. All analyses indicate that the Awans samples link Awans to the Swatis and Madaklasht on the one hand and to the two Wakhi samples on the other. Analysis through MDS and PCO indicates that the affinities between AWAm1 and Swatis are much closer than the affinity between the sample of Awans and the inhabitants of Madaklasht. All analyses, except PCO indicate that the samples 109 of Wakhis from Gulmit (WAKg) are more similar phenetically to Hemphill’s sample of Awans than is the sample of Wakhis from Sost."
"A synthesis from our results analyzed with the available information shows that the ethnic groups of the northern Pakistan, based on the patterns of their phenetic affinities can be divided into two main groups among which, the Awans, Tanolis and Swatis are affiliated with ethnic groups of the Hindu Kush Himalayan highlands..."
This points to a muddled picture, already disputing the common descent of Awans from a single individual by the name of Qutab-Shah who is reported to have come from Afghanistan in the 11th century.
Just my two cents @dsr478
qamar1990
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seems legit to me...
lastofthepatriots
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Yup.
Hamza913
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That doesn't sound right... Gujjars are agreed to be either of Iranian or Turkish descent.
Anyway, I'm the same (Gujjar Khatana, well mostly anyway, haven't got a clue about my genetics though).
Are the results anymore specific?
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