The iceberg behind the tip

[53fd]

So far Bilal their has been 5 different accounts of the events. This is why Dec 23rd has become insignicant. They are renound liars and will cook up another story and satisfy the "public". What they cant do and wont do is gloss over the cracks and sooth those that were questioning their motives prior to this event. Those people are now firmly convinced of the USA intentions.

We will not hear anything noteworthy on December 23 besides a feeble attempt to discredit Pakistan's version. It will prove insignificant in the short or long run.

 

[Indrajith]

For me it is sure that before the outcome of the report there will some other major event (issue) that will happen in pakistan to put the current issue with US on back stage and will make everyone to think and talk about the new issue

this could be death of a leader, or any internal problem in pakistan that cannot be blamed on US

Sorry my dear friends I do not want any more deaths or issues for any country, but that is how cheap politics and diplomacy runs

 

[Tameem]

Sometimes back, in an article in “Time Magazine” US marines performing their duties around ****** border share their views in it on condition of anonymity that often they engage militants (Taliban) on their part of the border and when they chase them they(Taliban) vanish into Pakistan territory but keep firing on US troops from even there, They are barred to cross that border deep into Pakistan territory but that bombardment of rockets on their positions when there are numerous Pakistani Check Post around is bamboozling for them. Some of them are even quoted as saying to wipe out these Pakistani check posts first if allowed to go forwards instead of chasing Taliban in the hinterlands. That narration is at least 2-3 months old.

The point is from mere sergeant to a General in US Army knows these facts and there is a deep temptation for quite sometime in all hierarchies to engage or go against these border checkposts for one way or another to teach some lessons to PA. Therefore, when PA says that this hitting is deliberate on account of NATO, I have no reasons but to believe.

The bottom line is we are moving from an old and quite chess game to a noisy, bloody proxy engagements which shows a deep frustration on part of USA towards PA in the first place. If Pentagon/CIA on one hand and PA/ISI on the other didn’t solve their difference on the way forwards in Afghanistan, incidents like these will bound to happen more brazenly and open as recent move by PA to equip Air defence machinery at ****** border clearly shows the way in this direction............as they better knows what they are doing and why...!!

 

[53fd]

For me it is sure that before the outcome of the report there will some other major event (issue) that will happen in pakistan to put the current issue with US on back stage and will make everyone to think and talk about the new issue

this could be death of a leader, or any internal problem in pakistan that cannot be blamed on US

Sorry my dear friends I do not want any more deaths or issues for any country, but that is how cheap politics and diplomacy runs

Can you tell me what makes you think that (in the red bold)? Has there been a death of some leader in Pakistan that put the issues between the US & Pakistan backstage. Has any other internal problem happened that overshadowed the one between the Pakistan & US?

 

[Zarvan]

The Stance which Pakistan is taking is just amazing and the movement of of our Armed Forces towards border news of negotiations with the Taliban in Pakistan because only this way Pakistan can move its troops towards western border to respond to any aggression and also moving of latest weaponry and stoppage of Nato Supply line and this can't be done without insurance from China and it can be also Military support from China either by using its own forces or providing us weapons on urgent bases

 

[DV RULES]

Now a days most items covered with countless & useless laws so in the chess. What could be chess there when your king in hands of your opponent with support of knights so what could do queen, bishop, rock & pawns? What when you couldn’t find king at they time of castling?

In my point of view we couldn’t measure every international matter on chess board because there is no role of emotions, human feelings, sympathy in the game. Now according to chess board Pakistan already should come under US military control but it didn’t happened…means; chess failed here. So let’s think out of chess board.

Situation still unclear what happened that night and why? What plans hidden behind death of our soldiers by both sides. NATO investigation might not open Pandora box as it is also in their interests just like Pakistan denied to participate in investigation. Question which is disturbing ‘WHY’? We don’t know on which side this iceberg moving behind this tip. US’s officials blaming Pakistan over sabotaging relations intentionally and Pakistan blaming US/NATO over violation of agreement they have and violation of sovereignty. We people just like football.

Very very interesting that at same time when this happened Pakistan is busy with peace negotiations with TTP and blockade of NATO supplies, people’s strong reaction against US gives more cool breeze for this process.

More certainly US & Pakistan agreed to make peace deal and help each other for this peace process with those who are cause of pain for each party. Yes, these are Haqqani network for US and TTP for Pakistan. In last months deadly attacks from TTP on Pakistani border check posts were possibly balanced by death of Rabbani and deadly attacks on NATO troops by Haqqani network under Mullah Umers’s Afghan Taliban. Pakistan’s decision not to attend Bonn conference was part of this strategy where surprisingly by default anti-Pakistan US secretary of state Hillary spoke in favour of Pakistan’s efforts. Pakistan’s concerns over Indian presence also might discussed and decided but in terms of Pakistan. It was shown in tone of Indian delegation’s speech in Bonn conference.

So I don’t think Pakistan is looser or got threat from US but US came to end this uncertain situation for their soldiers in Afghanistan and required massive help from PA & ISI.

We can say that “25 soldiers coloured this iceberg with their blood”?????
Surely this tip left for public but this santa claus on iceberg celebrated by both military strategic planners. US-PAKISTAN.

 

[VCheng]

So is that a test run or just recording the reactions are as per expected?

Or any message being delivered?

The data gathering and analysis as described is just SOP.

23rd December is not that far off, we'll see the official statement from the US. Also it would be holiday from then on for about a week. I think there is an American attempt to hope that a "raat gai baat gai" scenario emerges and eventually things go back to normal even if American does nothing.

They could have fired a few people from their jobs at least by now.

Like I have said before, I cannot say anything until the NATO report is out. We already know the Pakistani version of events.

We will not hear anything noteworthy on December 23 besides a feeble attempt to discredit Pakistan's version. It will prove insignificant in the short or long run.

Why not wait till 12-23? Then we can discuss the report with resorting to conjecture.

The Stance which Pakistan is taking is just amazing and the movement of of our Armed Forces towards border news of negotiations with the Taliban in Pakistan because only this way Pakistan can move its troops towards western border to respond to any aggression and also moving of latest weaponry and stoppage of Nato Supply line and this can't be done without insurance from China and it can be also Military support from China either by using its own forces or providing us weapons on urgent bases

Pakistan has every right to pursue its national interests, and that should be considered as a given, not amazing.

 

[BATMAN]

Pakistan army need to keep close eye on the chess board.
It is key for PA to identify how many and what pieces of opponent are still on the board.

 

[53fd]

Why not wait till 12-23? Then we can discuss the report with resorting to conjecture.

So I'm not allowed to make predictions like you do all the time on this forum?

 

[Awesome]

US lawmakers freeze $700 mln to Pakistan | World | DAWN.COM

WASHINGTON: The leaders of a US House-Senate negotiating panel said on Monday they had agreed to freeze $700 million in US aid to Pakistan until it provides some assurances of assistance in the fight against improvised explosive devices in the region.

The explosive devices are among militants’ most effective weapons against US and coalition troops in Afghanistan.

Many are made using ammonium nitrate, a common fertilizer shipped across the border from Pakistan. The freeze on US aid was agreed as part of a defence bill that is expected to be passed this week.

The United States wants “assurances that Pakistan is countering improvised explosive devices in their country that are targeting our coalition forces,” Representative Howard McKeon, a House Republican, told reporters.

The United States has allocated some $20 billion in security and economic aid to Pakistan since 2001, much of it in the form of reimbursements for assistance in fighting militants.

But US lawmakers have expressed increasing frustration with Pakistan’s efforts in the war.

There have been numerous proposals to make US aid to Pakistan conditional on more cooperation in fighting militants such as the Haqqani network Washington believes operate out of Pakistan and battle US troops in Afghanistan.

US lawmakers allege that many Afghan bombs are made with fertilizer smuggled by militants across the border from Pakistan into Afghanistan.

“The vast majority of the material used to make improvised explosive devices used against US forces in Afghanistan originates from two fertilizer factories inside Pakistan,” Senator John McCain, a Republican, said in the Senate last week.

The provision freezing $700 million in aid to Pakistan was agreed upon by leaders of the armed services committees from both parties in the House and Senate, including McCain. It is part of compromise legislation authorising US defence programs expected to be approved this week, McKeon said.

He said the bill would also require the Pentagon to deliver a strategy for improving the effectiveness of US aid to Pakistan.

Deny them the airspace already! Let's agree with one thing, the US-berg has nothing good for Pakistan below the tip.

 

[VCheng]

............

Deny them the airspace already! Let's agree with one thing, the US-berg has nothing good for Pakistan below the tip.

Denying airspace is not realistic.

The "US-berg" is pursuing its own national interests, and Pakistan must do the same. Simple, really.

 

[Awesome]

Denying airspace is not realistic.

The "US-berg" is pursuing its own national interests, and Pakistan must do the same. Simple, really.

Try saying "We deny you airspace". What would they do? Fly over anyway? Let them/make them cross that line.

 

[VCheng]

Try saying "We deny you airspace". What would they do? Fly over anyway? Let them/make them cross that line.

Okay, who bells the cat? And why draw a totally unneeded line in the sand without being able to withstand all the ramifications thereof?

 

[Awesome]

Okay, who bells the cat? And why draw a totally unneeded line in the sand without being able to withstand all the ramifications thereof?

To deny them the airspace, why else? If they stop going over our territory, then the real ramifications of blocking the Nato supply route would hit them.

 

[VCheng]

To deny them the airspace, why else? If they stop going over our territory, then the real ramifications of blocking the Nato supply route would hit them.

Agreed, provided it is understood that ramifications of such a decision would affect BOTH sides, and likely asymmetrically.