The G-3 rifle is outdated.

[Fenrir]

Looks more like you're describing a usage issue then a problem with the rifle itself. The G3 is no more outdated then the M14 or its variants, which are making a comeback.

It excels as a precision rifle for on-target fire over a distance. It is not and has never been suited as an assault rifle, hence its designation as a battle rifle. If that's what it's being used as, the issue is operational, not with the firearm.

In its heyday the G3 worked as needed. It could be used to support maneuvering warfare, but was always a bit heavy.

The gun hasn't changed much, some modernized variants exist.

But tactical shifts in Western armies pushed the G3 aside in favor of smaller caliber, smaller rifles like the HK416 or M4. Battle Rifles are still used too, as noted with the HK417 and M14 EBR, but are more suited to DMR or sniper purposes as fits the tactics Western armies employ.

If you can graft an operational usage around the G3, it's fine. There's nothing wrong with the gun and it's not dated. The tactics that give you the impression the G3 is past its usefulness might be, and I suspect that's were the problem lies.

The 7.62 X 51 is a beast and in environments like the Afghan battlefield, it's en vogue more then ever due to the distances and terrain. Nothing wrong with using it as your primary, you just need to craft an operational usage to fit it, or else it'll always seen awkward.

I carried both an HK416 and 417. One was my primary, the other was situational and used as an airborne DMR.

 

[Faiez]

I carried both an HK416 and 417. One was my primary, the other was situational and used as an airborne DMR.

I'm guessing the high RPM, smaller caliber, lower recoil, big magazine (30 rds) one was the primary and the lower RPM, bigger cartridge, small magazine(20rds) and a lot of recoil one was the DMR?

Well, Pakistan army uses that lower RPM, bigger cartridge, small magazine and a lot of recoil one as the primary "assault rifle". Every soldier carries one, every soldier/officer is trained with one. I don't know what they use as a DMR when every soldier already has a DMR-ish gun.

 

[50cent]

Looks more like you're describing a usage issue then a problem with the rifle itself. The G3 is no more outdated then the M14 or its variants, which are making a comeback.

It excels as a precision rifle for on-target fire over a distance. It is not and has never been suited as an assault rifle, hence its designation as a battle rifle. If that's what it's being used as, the issue is operational, not with the firearm.

In its heyday the G3 worked as needed. It could be used to support maneuvering warfare, but was always a bit heavy.

The gun hasn't changed much, some modernized variants exist.

But tactical shifts in Western armies pushed the G3 aside in favor of smaller caliber, smaller rifles like the HK416 or M4. Battle Rifles are still used too, as noted with the HK417 and M14 EBR, but are more suited to DMR or sniper purposes as fits the tactics Western armies employ.

If you can graft an operational usage around the G3, it's fine. There's nothing wrong with the gun and it's not dated. The tactics that give you the impression the G3 is past its usefulness might be, and I suspect that's were the problem lies.

The 7.62 X 51 is a beast and in environments like the Afghan battlefield, it's en vogue more then ever due to the distances and terrain. Nothing wrong with using it as your primary, you just need to craft an operational usage to fit it, or else it'll always seen awkward.

I carried both an HK416 and 417. One was my primary, the other was situational and used as an airborne DMR.

Not a. Rifle expert how is g3 rifle accuracy compared to m4 or m16

 

[CriticalThought]

Let's try to place the G3 at the section level. The section will have dedicated machine gun in the form of MG-3 to act as a fire suppressor. That leaves the question of how to arm the rest of the section. Now, in heavily dug in positions/trench warfare types of situations, the G3 would excel. It would also excel in the hands of a trained marksman armed with a proper scope. The reality of the situation is that along the LoC, they either use very large caliber AA guns, or the AK-47 for patrolling. I have seen some promotional videos showing simulations of actual events. The tasks faced by soldiers involve quickly responding to enemy activity (e.g. attempts at creating a new checkpost, infiltration, etc.) These missions are better suited for the MP-5 or AK-47. And for sniping from a distance, they use dedicated sniping guns in the .50 caliber. On the western fronts, seeing the videos of Pak army's confrontation with the Afghans, I was amazed to see the AK-47 in action again, accompanied by mortar/artillery fire. And of course, in the WoT, quick movements on mountainous terrain in order to capture and hold new ground from the enemy require the flexibility of the AK-47. I remember reading somewhere that they started with G3s and quickly switched to AK-47s there. So in reality, somehow the army seems to be attracted towards the assault rifle. Then again, my knowledge is based off promotional videos and short clips. I would be happy to be corrected by regular army personnel. Looking forward to feedback!

 

[Faiez]

Not a. Rifle expert how is g3 rifle accuracy compared to m4 or m16

I believe G-3 is better than both of them.

But tactical shifts in Western armies pushed the G3 aside in favor of smaller caliber, smaller rifles like the HK416 or M4. Battle Rifles are still used too, as noted with the HK417 and M14 EBR, but are more suited to DMR or sniper purposes as fits the tactics Western armies employ.

Not just western. As mentioned in the original post, in the East there's Russia that's done the same, using a small common caliber in their LMGs and assault rifles. US and Russia are the countries that either see the most action or expect the most action, so they have to be very serious about their weapons. That should tell something about the effectiveness of a smaller caliber.

 

[CriticalThought]

I believe G-3 is better than both of them.

Lots of variables involved here. The firing rate (single shot/automatic), movement (running/jumping), ammo supply and many others will play a role. Each gun is suitable for a particular type of mission.

 

[Faiez]

Lots of variables involved here. The firing rate (single shot/automatic), movement (running/jumping), ammo supply and many others will play a role. Each gun is suitable for a particular type of mission.

I meant in terms of accuracy !

 

[CriticalThought]

I meant in terms of accuracy !

Movement and firing rate both play a role in accuracy.

On a separate note, I got the itch to search on youtube, and it looks like even girls are firing the G3 with success:

 

[Faiez]

Let's try to place the G3 at the section level. The section will have dedicated machine gun in the form of MG-3 to act as a fire suppressor. That leaves the question of how to arm the rest of the section. Now, in heavily dug in positions/trench warfare types of situations, the G3 would excel. It would also excel in the hands of a trained marksman armed with a proper scope. The reality of the situation is that along the LoC, they either use very large caliber AA guns, or the AK-47 for patrolling. I have seen some promotional videos showing simulations of actual events. The tasks faced by soldiers involve quickly responding to enemy activity (e.g. attempts at creating a new checkpost, infiltration, etc.) These missions are better suited for the MP-5 or AK-47. And for sniping from a distance, they use dedicated sniping guns in the .50 caliber. On the western fronts, seeing the videos of Pak army's confrontation with the Afghans, I was amazed to see the AK-47 in action again, accompanied by mortar/artillery fire. And of course, in the WoT, quick movements on mountainous terrain in order to capture and hold new ground from the enemy require the flexibility of the AK-47. I remember reading somewhere that they started with G3s and quickly switched to AK-47s there. So in reality, somehow the army seems to be attracted towards the assault rifle. Then again, my knowledge is based off promotional videos and short clips. I would be happy to be corrected by regular army personnel. Looking forward to feedback!

You probably won't get anything out of Pakistani army personnel. They just follows orders from above. They'll behave literally like H & K salesmen. They'll never tell you they have a problem with the gun, they'll tell you it's the best gun in the world. I know this, by talking to actual PA soldiers.

 

[Fenrir]

Well, Pakistan army uses that lower RPM, bigger cartridge, small magazine and a lot of recoil one as the primary "assault rifle". Every soldier carries one, every soldier/officer is trained with one.

So did every Norwegian soldier until the mid-2000s (about 2007) when the HK416 started to replaced them.

It's largely out of service now, and even with units that still use it, is rapidly being replaced, but we've managed to fit it into out doctrine of maneuver warfare and guerrilla tactics (for HV units) in built up and forested areas. For mountainous theaters, the G3 would be better suited for distance engagements then the Hk416 that's replacing it.

Now for Pakistan where its still prevalent, yeah, it's an issue have a rifle that isn't particularly suited for maneuver warfare or warfare in urban or built up areas, but it's not outdated. Tactics just need to adapt with it.

Not a. Rifle expert how is g3 rifle accuracy compared to m4 or m16

It's better over a longer distance. A 5.56 cartridge can drop a man at 800m, but it loses a lot of energy and accuracy over that distance. The G3 and its 7.62 would not. The problem with the G3 however is that you don't typically see it with an optic on an individual level, just for designated marksman, and that crimps its accuracy over even short-to-medium distances versus the HK417 which comes stock with an optic.

I'm guessing the high RPM, smaller caliber, lower recoil, big magazine (30 rds) one was the primary and the lower RPM, bigger cartridge, small magazine(20rds) and a lot of recoil one was the DMR?

You're right and wrong. The HK416 is the primary of the Norwegian armed forces, and the HK417 is better suited as a DMR, but for airborne engagements, sometimes the rapid action of the HK416 was preferred to lay down a volume of fire, rather then pick off individual targets, which I'll admit isn't easy to do from a helicopter.

That might make a bit more sense when you consider it's usage in a search and rescue squadron, which I was part of. Keep hostile heads down so we can go about our work.

So it's a bit of both. I got aerial gunnery training with the HK416 and 417, both fit into a specific usage. On land the HK416 was my undisputed primary.

 

[CriticalThought]

A review of the G3 at full auto:

 

[UkroTurk]

Rolling bolt system is not reliable. Bolt roller never works properly especiaally made in Turkey rifles.
Bolt rollers very often block mechanism.
Thats why Germany producec reliabla platform HK416 and 417s.
And thats why Turkish MPT has been copied from HK417
Hk417 and 416 connect ar15 mechanism with short piston.

here is the terrible mechanim:

İt is FN FAL gas piston mechanism.
Piston systems more reliable than roller.

 

[Faiez]

So did every Norwegian soldier until the mid-2000s (about 2007) when the HK416 started to replaced them.

When they finally saw the advantages of smaller caliber rapid fire in Afghanistan/Iraq 1st hand.

It's largely out of service now, and even with units that still use it, is rapidly being replaced, but we've managed to fit it into out doctrine of maneuver warfare and guerrilla tactics (for HV units) in built up and forested areas. For mountainous theaters, the G3 would be better suited for distance engagements then the Hk416 that's replacing it.

That's what the snipers and DMs and artillery and choppers are for.

Tactics just need to adapt with it.

Yeah, tell the enemy to fight differently, cuz we don't have the right gun to fight them as it is.

Also, don't get this the wrong way, but if the Norwegian army gets its guns wrong, it's not like they have much to lose anyways. They're a third world country which has always been peaceful and no one really wants to mess with it.

Compared to Pakistan where there is a constant border conflict going on with India (over Kashmir), and the fight against terrorism (where USA has successfully fought with M16/4s and m249s). Pakistan can't afford to get its guns wrong.

 

[Jaam92]

Well I dont think soo that we need to change our primary weapon
we should remain it as our main assault rifle. G3 is not only a gun but also used as sniper and its effective range i pretty better then Ak 47 & 74 or M16. Pakistan army is still using Ak47, I would love to see Ak 74 and 74u in our second primary weapon.

 

[UkroTurk]

HK416 or 417 platform has accuracy like m4 and has reliable mechanism like ak47.

Why dont you look CZs new polymer assault rifle. Probably they copied from FN SCAR. Checks make great guns. AFAIK Egypt Army has ordered CZ 805 BREN.
I expect it will be accuracy , costeffective , reliable assault rifle.