The G-3 rifle is outdated.

[Faiez]

On the modern battle field, most of the rounds fired don't either hit the target, nor are intended to hit the target, they are used for suppressive fire. US/NATO averages for rounds fired per enemy killed go into the 1,000s AT MINIMUM and that's for the elite units on special missions. The figures go well above 10,000 per kill in most combat scenarios faced by ordinary pawns.

Keeping that in mind, a rifle that is useless at full auto (too much recoil), has slow RPM and has small magazine of just 20 rounds, with actual rounds probably less than that (usually magazine spring gets too tight causing jams etc, common practice with almost all guns/magazines) and VERY heavy ammo meaning less of it can be practically carried by a soldier.

Ammo per pound(lb) :

7.62x39 (AK-47) = 25
7.62x51 NATO(G3)= 18
5.56 NATO(M16) = 38
5.45x39 (AK-74) = 42

7.62 NATO is clearly the WORST in this regard. Also, most modern assault rifles now come with composite/plastic material magazines which are easily 50% lighter, while Pak Army continues to use steel magazines.

A 180 rd load for most assault rifles means 6 magazines (30/mag), while with a G-3, you need 50% more magazines (9 magazines). So the ammo per pound if you count the magazine weight as well will drop SIGNIFICANTLY for a G-3 compared to other assault rifles.

Comparing the energy carried by the projectiles in the above types of ammo, this is VERY CLEARLY a sniper round, NOT an assault rifle round. The round is most similar to the russian 54mm which is used in the dragunov sniper rifle. I wouldn't go into the exact numbers of joules at yds etc, but the following images can summarize my point for most people here:

What do people here have to say about this?

 

[Zarvan]

On the modern battle field, most of the rounds fired don't either hit the target, nor are intended to hit the target, they are used for suppressive fire. US/NATO averages for rounds fired per enemy killed go into the 1,000s AT MINIMUM and that's for the elite units on special missions. The figures go well above 10,000 per kill in most combat scenarios faced by ordinary pawns.

Keeping that in mind, a rifle that is useless at full auto (too much recoil), has slow RPM and has small magazine of just 20 rounds, with actual rounds probably less than that (usually magazine spring gets too tight causing jams etc, common practice with almost all guns/magazines) and VERY heavy ammo meaning less of it can be practically carried by a soldier.

Ammo per pound(lb) :

7.62x39 (AK-47) = 25
7.62x51 NATO(G3)= 18
5.56 NATO(M16) = 38
5.45x39 (AK-74) = 42

7.62 NATO is clearly the WORST in this regard. Also, most modern assault rifles now come with composite/plastic material magazines which are easily 50% lighter, while Pak Army continues to use steel magazines.

A 180 rd load for most assault rifles means 6 magazines (30/mag), while with a G-3, you need 50% more magazines (9 magazines). So the ammo per pound if you count the magazine weight as well will drop SIGNIFICANTLY for a G-3 compared to other assault rifles.

Comparing the energy carried by the projectiles in the above types of ammo, this is VERY CLEARLY a sniper round, NOT an assault rifle round. The round is most similar to the russian 54mm which is used in the dragunov sniper rifle. I wouldn't go into the exact numbers of joules at yds etc, but the following images can summarize my point for most people here:

What do people here have to say about this?

Pakistan knows G3 is out dated that is why we are testing new Assault Rifles from them Berreta and SCAR are short listed and talks for those Rifles are taking place and one of them would be selected as new standard Assault Rifle of Pakistan.

 

[Faiez]

Pakistan knows G3 is out dated that is why we are testing new Assault Rifles from them Berreta and SCAR are short listed and talks for those Rifles are taking place and one of them would be selected as new standard Assault Rifle of Pakistan.

Then why do I at times still see Pakistan Army soldiers/officers defending the G-3...saying the caliber is awesome, made to kill, etc etc...?

Also, when exactly did the Pakistan Army adopt the G-3 ? Because the G-3 has been outdated since at least 2 decades now.

 

[untitled]

Why is India shifting back to 7.62 Nato?

http://www.financialexpress.com/ind...contracts-for-assault-rifles-carbines/336599/

 

[Khan_patriot]

The G 3 is here to stay atleast for the short to medium term, you can argue all you want but one of the most obvious things stopping induction of a new Rifle is money.
The G3 may not be the newest or the shiniest but it get the job done better then most. It's firepower and widespread employment have little parallels in pakistan.
The SMGs will be used in the tribal areas while the G3 on the eastern plains.

 

[Faiez]

Why is India shifting back to 7.62 Nato?

http://www.financialexpress.com/ind...contracts-for-assault-rifles-carbines/336599/

India also has the Arjun tank.

 

[Zarvan]

Then why do I at times still see Pakistan Army soldiers/officers defending the G-3...saying the caliber is awesome, made to kill, etc etc...?

Also, when exactly did the Pakistan Army adopt the G-3 ? Because the G-3 has been outdated since at least 2 decades now.

The caliber is awesome without doubt and G3 as one of the best accuracy in the world. Issues are it's way to big and also heavy. There are several Rifles in the world which has 7.62 X 51 caliber and it's considered best caliber in the world to kill your enemy.

The G 3 is here to stay atleast for the short to medium term, you can argue all you want but one of the most obvious things stopping induction of a new Rifle is money.
The G3 may not be the newest or the shiniest but it get the job done better then most. It's firepower and widespread employment have little parallels in pakistan.
The SMGs will be used in the tribal areas while the G3 on the eastern plains.

Money is not the issue. Pakistan Army calculated everything before starting the trials. Money issue was resolved before going for trials. Yes G3 would stay because replacing it will take a decade so we would see it for next `10 years but by every passing year you would see less soldiers carrying them. @Khan_patriot

 

[untitled]

India also has the Arjun tank.

7.62 NATO is not an Indian round (nor a Pakistani one). The round is still being used world over as a sniper or a machine gun round if not as frontline rifle round.

Are you also going to say that the 12.7 x 99 BMG is an outdated round because it traces its origins to WWI?

 

[Khan_patriot]

Money is not the issue. Pakistan Army calculated everything before starting the trials. Money issue was resolved before going for trials. Yes G3 would stay because replacing it will take a decade so we would see it for next `10 years but by every passing year you would see less soldiers carrying them. @Khan_patriot

I highly doubt if we truly have enough finances for such a procurement, we conclude like you said gradually phase then in but that in itself would takes ages.
I would prefer an advanced Ak variant personally over any American or European system

 

[Zarvan]

I highly doubt if we truly have enough finances for such a procurement, we conclude like you said gradually phase then in but that in itself would takes ages.
I would prefer an advanced Ak variant personally over any American or European system

We have the money and SCAR and Berreta are shortlisted and one of them would be selected soon.

 

[Sine Nomine]

The caliber is awesome without doubt and G3 as one of the best accuracy in the world. Issues are it's way to big and also heavy. There are several Rifles in the world which has 7.62 X 51 caliber and it's considered best caliber in the world to kill your enemy.

G3 accurate,fielding HK's in tribal and hilly areas proved a drastic effect,it proved to be total useless in CQB and failed to perform in engagement taking place in mountainous areas.G3's problems are not new it's not being used in siachen from start and during kargil war it proved to be weapon hated by users.7.62x39 mm calibar along with ak 47 proved it's worth is siachen,kargil and tribal areas.And about killing part NATO uses 5.56 and russians are deploying 5.45.PA is going once again wrong they should have tester calibar first.Todate 7.62x39 has performed better then x51mm.

 

[Papa Dragon]

We have the money and SCAR and Berreta are shortlisted and one of them would be selected soon.

5.56 or 7.62?

 

[Zarvan]

5.56 or 7.62?

7.62 x 51

G3 accurate,fielding HK's in tribal and hilly areas proved a drastic effect,it proved to be total useless in CQB and failed to perform in engagement taking place in mountainous areas.G3's problems are not new it's not being used in siachen from start and during kargil war it proved to be weapon hated by users.7.62x39 mm calibar along with ak 47 proved it's worth is siachen,kargil and tribal areas.And about killing part NATO uses 5.56 and russians are deploying 5.45.PA is going once again wrong they should have tester calibar first.Todate 7.62x39 has performed better then x51mm.

Sorry issue was G3 in CQB not caliber. Pakistan Army considers 7.62 x 51 better caliber as compared to 7.62 x 39

 

[Sulman Badshah]

7.62x51mm NATO ammo can penetrate 4mm thick Armour at 600 meters ... Level III Bullet Proof vest aren't good against this ammo ...

 

[fitpOsitive]

We have the money and SCAR and Berreta are shortlisted and one of them would be selected soon.

Berreta lylo yar. Behtareen rifle hai.