The G-3 rifle is outdated.

[Khan_patriot]

We have the money and SCAR and Berreta are shortlisted and one of them would be selected soon.

It's been ages since I first heard that news, pardon me for not being too optimistic about the prospects of a speedy induction

 

[Zarvan]

It's been ages since I first heard that news, pardon me for not being too optimistic about the prospects of a speedy induction

Because trials and taking final decision take time and we are doing it in pretty much less than a year that is fast speed. Other nations take several years to decide we did it in a year.

 

[Sine Nomine]

Sorry issue was G3 in CQB not caliber. Pakistan Army considers 7.62 x 51 better caliber as compared to 7.62 x 39

Zarvan if ever you took part in long firefights you should have known carrying capacity of ammo matters.whatever system you field 7.62x51 is totally uncontrollable and inaccurate in full auto and at some places you rely on full auto.Instead of developing new 7.62x39 ammo which deals with m43 shortcomings we are one again going for MG caliber.That's totally due to inept of procurement and decision making body.

7.62x51mm NATO ammo can penetrate 4mm thick Armour at 600 meters ... Level III Bullet Proof vest aren't good against this ammo ...

View attachment 348384

And sir there aren't men around you who are capable of hitting at 600 metres often with assault rifle.7.62x 39mm is best at those ranges where all engagements take place in light of study conducted by Germans during ww 2.

 

[Zarvan]

Zarvan if ever you took part in long firefights you should have known carrying capacity of ammo matters.whatever system you field 7.62x51 is totally uncontrollable and inaccurate in full auto and at some places you rely on full auto.Instead of developing new 7.62x39 ammo which deals with m43 shortcomings we are one again going for MG caliber.That's totally due to inept of procurement and decision making body.

7.62 x 51 quite controllable and with G3 like Gun. It pretty much becomes like a Sniper like Gun. You are totally wrong at this not the one you are blaming G3 is best ammo and many European countries are adopting 7.62 x 51.
@Horus @Path-Finder @Sulman Badshah @Quwa

 

[Sine Nomine]

European countries are adopting 7.62 x 51.

Please tell me how many countries have adopted it.All have gone to 5.56.

7.62 x 51 quite controllable

The day you would fire this at full auto,you will no longer pass this statement.

 

[Zarvan]

Please tell me how many countries have adopted it.All have gone to 5.56.

The day you would fire this at full auto,you will no longer pass this statement.

Many countries who were using 5.56 are moving back to 7.62 version. German soldiers are also now using HK-417 in large numbers. USA is adopting SCAR H and Italian company has also come with 7.62 version also SIG. Many countries are adopting it. 5.56 is not good to kill the enemy fast. 7.62 x 51 is the best one to do it and our Armed Forces love this caliber. The issue in Close Quarter Combat was the G3 not the caliber.

 

[Sulman Badshah]

Zarvan if ever you took part in long firefights you should have known carrying capacity of ammo matters.whatever system you field 7.62x51 is totally uncontrollable and inaccurate in full auto and at some places you rely on full auto.Instead of developing new 7.62x39 ammo which deals with m43 shortcomings we are one again going for MG caliber.That's totally due to inept of procurement and decision making body.


And sir there aren't men around you who are capable of hitting at 600 metres often with assault rifle.7.62x 39mm is best at those ranges where all engagements take place in light of study conducted by Germans during ww 2.

Sir, I was talking about penetration of armour and level III Bullet proof vest

 

[Ghazwa e Hind]

Beretta ARX-200 is the perfect replacement for G-3s of Pakistan Army. I am sure they are going to do it under a transfer of technology. It will take few years to arm our all infantry units with this rifle. Money is not a big issue in small arms. Lets wait and watch... This news will be confirmed within few months inshaAllah.

 

[Sine Nomine]

Many countries who were using 5.56 are moving back to 7.62 version. German soldiers are also now using HK-417 in large numbers. USA is adopting SCAR H

Being used as DMRS by Army units.SCAR H is fielded by SOF units only.5.56 is caliber being used by west.

Sir, I was talking about penetration of armour and level III Bullet proof vest

That's expected with velocity of 833 m/s and energy of 3304 J.

 

[sparten]

We are the only major Army which stayed at the 7.62 x 51mm and that was the right decision. The 5.54 x 45 is a weak round and in the era of large scale use of good body armour, you need better penetrating performance.

The Army decided not to switch to 5.54 x 45 after Somalia and Bosnia, when they were less than impressed with the US (and later NATO) outcomes.

 

[Sine Nomine]

The 5.54 x 45 is a weak round and in the era of large scale use of good body armour, you need better penetrating performance.

By increasing velocity body armor can be defeated.

 

[sparten]

Well, no actually. In theory yes, but at the end of the day you can only pack so much propellant into a small cartridge and increase pressure so much.

 

[Muhammad Omar]

When the Final Assault rifle will be selected ?? any timeline??

 

[CriticalThought]

There are multiple angles to look at. Are we really looking at replacing the entire inventory of g3s? These days us Marines have the concept of elite marksmen embedded in each unit who wield advanced weapons. Maybe that's the idea behind this new program? I remember reading that they are also looking at improved optics. In any case, a line o FC soldiers wielding g3s can be formidable but it all depends on the battle scenario. We also don't know if they r negotiating any mods to the rifles to better suit our needs.

 

[Faiez]

7.62 NATO is not an Indian round (nor a Pakistani one). The round is still being used world over as a sniper or a machine gun round if not as frontline rifle round.

Are you also going to say that the 12.7 x 99 BMG is an outdated round because it traces its origins to WWI?

I did not say the round itself was outdated. I said the rifle (G-3) is outdated because of slow rate of fire and heavy ammo.

Yes, the round is very successful AS A SNIPER ROUND !

The G-3 rifle today is primarily used by countries that are either third-world (in the economic sense) or third world in the actual political sense (those high end countries in europe that never see any real fighting action, the guns are pretty much for show).

And even in light machine guns this round and other rounds of this size has been replaced by armies that get to see the most fighting action (USA, USSR/Russia, etc) by smaller rounds (5.56 and 5.45). US M249 over M240/M60 and Russian PKM over RPD/RPK.

7.62x51mm NATO ammo can penetrate 4mm thick Armour at 600 meters ... Level III Bullet Proof vest aren't good against this ammo ...

View attachment 348384

Try shooting a G-3 at 600m with iron sights. You'll be lucky to get a hit at 600m even with a scope.

Well, no actually. In theory yes, but at the end of the day you can only pack so much propellant into a small cartridge and increase pressure so much.

An assault rifles job is not to kill armored targets at long ranges. That's a sniper's job.

The G 3 is here to stay atleast for the short to medium term, you can argue all you want but one of the most obvious things stopping induction of a new Rifle is money.
The G3 may not be the newest or the shiniest but it get the job done better then most. It's firepower and widespread employment have little parallels in pakistan.
The SMGs will be used in the tribal areas while the G3 on the eastern plains.

The G-3 ammo is more expensive than any of the other widely used assault rifle rounds. I'm guessing 7.62x39 or 5.45x39 is probably the cheapest to produce.

Well, no actually. In theory yes, but at the end of the day you can only pack so much propellant into a small cartridge and increase pressure so much.

Keeping the projectile shape constant, the only thing that matters in penetration is the bullet's velocity. A bullet that can penetrate ABCD, if scaled down keeping velocity at range same, will still penetrate the target (for practical army purposes, not talking about tanks or artillery or anti-material rifles here, keep that in mind).

For penetration (a cut), you need a sharp knife which gives you concentrated force over a small area. How deep you can cut depends on how long you can keep applying the force of the knife. And that's where the bigger bullet (due to its higher energy) gives you the advantage. But that big bullet advantage is not needed for an assault rifle because its an assault rifle, not a big bullet rifle.