The effectiveness of Bayraktar tb2 drones in Karabakh war

[Inception-06]

those are just rumours but Poland ordered 24 systems and didn’t receive them yet. Today they asked for if its possible to deliver it earlier. Probably Turkey will send some operational ones


18,000 Feet Operational Altitude
27 Hours Maximum Airtime
Fully Automatic Flight Control and 3 Redundant Autopilot System (Triple Redundant)
Fully Automatic Landing and Take-off Feature Without Dependence on Ground Systems
Navigation with Internal Sensor Fusion Without Dependency on GPS
25,000 Feet Max Altitude

What’s the maximum range or reach out of the weapons against ground targets ?

 

[JamD]

The TB2s are BBQing Russian Pantsir systems

https://twitter.com/x/status/1498180752269324288

Right. The TB2 simply outranges the Pantsir in most scenarios.

40km is the distance from where the Drones can target and mark their targets ?

We're restricting ourselves to TB2 class drones. The answer is no. They can't track up to 40 km away. Closer to 25 km. The MAM-L can hit 15 km away according to its brochures. I was using the 40 km number as a slightly future-proof engagement radius. You want to prevent tracking at 25 km. You probably want to knock out threats at 30 km. No MANPAD can do that.

 

[EAGLE777]

No, you should say what you see. That SAM isn't operational. This means a lack of situational awareness by the Russians and underestimation of the capabilities of the TB2.

It has hit many operational ones before and proved itself it doesn't matter if that one was not operational.

 

[JamD]

What’s the maximum range or reach out of the weapons against ground targets ?

(EDIT: The laser designator in the ) EOTS has max range 25 km (https://www.aselsan.com.tr/en/capab...onnaissance-surveillance-and-targeting-system)

MAM-L has a max range of 15 km (https://www.roketsan.com.tr/uploads/docs/kataloglar/ENG/1628389063_mam-l-en.pdf)

 

[EAGLE777]

What’s the maximum range or reach out of the weapons against ground targets ?

MAM-C 8 km MAM-L 14 km and soon to be operational MAM-T 30 km

 

[Iron Shrappenel]

The question that keeps me up at night is what is the counter to such a system. We can't expect the opponent to not see the same things that we see.

As a counter, you want an air defense option that can detect and engage out to 40 km at 6 km altitude for less than a million dollars per successful shot. I don't know what this system looks like. Before anyone says Pantsir - obviously this system does not meet the aforementioned parameters. The challenges are two-fold:

1. Detection of a small target at ranges out to 40-50 km without needing a huge power-hungry radar. Perhaps some kind of modern AESA solution. I don't know. You also need to track at those ranges. Tracking and detection are pretty different things, obviously.
2. Destroying the target at that range. Missile? Lasers? Rocket-Jet hybrid cheap missile something? I don't know.

Counter drone with drones... And instead of using a radar maybe an infrared search and track system based drone for target detection...

 

[Inception-06]

(EDIT: The laser designator in the ) EOTS has max range 25 km (https://www.aselsan.com.tr/en/capab...onnaissance-surveillance-and-targeting-system)

MAM-L has a max range of 15 km (https://www.roketsan.com.tr/uploads/docs/kataloglar/ENG/1628389063_mam-l-en.pdf)

That’s a impressive weapons system, those who have it in mass numbers and mastered it, will definitely gain success on the battlefield. And yes I would prefer to face Tank than this Drones. Going underground in canalisation seems to be the only option to not be blown up.

 

[JamD]

Counter drone with drones... And instead of using a radar maybe an infrared search and track system based drone for target detection...

This might not be a bad idea. Didn't the Iranians mount manpads on drones? Something like that might work if its finessed a bit.

 

[Inception-06]

Counter drone with drones... And instead of using a radar maybe an infrared search and track system based drone for target detection...

But infrared red search systems has less range right ? So you need a lot of drones or you need own drones operational 24/7 hours over your own troops.

 

[Iron Shrappenel]

But infrared red search systems has less range right ? So you need a lot of drones or you need own drones operational 24/7 hours over your own troops.

Well if a system that provides around 60-70 km of range would be enough to keep most drones at bay.... Well that's the thing with drones they are cheap to maintain and cheap produce... The TB2 costs around 1 mill $.... A T-90 would be around 6....

This might not be a bad idea. Didn't the Iranians mount manpads on drones? Something like that might work if its finessed a bit.

Ideally it should be able to relay and guide surface to air missiles onto the target but i have no clue if that is possible with an IRST.... Russians were working on Drone killing drone... Maybe still in the initial phases of testing and not enough numbers to deploy... Haven't seen any with the IRST concept though

 

[JamD]

Ideally it should be able to relay and guide surface to air missiles onto the target but i have no clue if that is possible with an IRST.... Russians were working on Drone killing drone... Maybe still in the initial phases of testing and not enough numbers to deploy... Haven't seen any with the IRST concept though

Actually no. Launching missiles from the ground defeats the purpose of the drone carrying the missile. A missile wastes precious energy climbing to altitude. If you launch the same missile from altitude it can fly much further. I'm thinking a small sidewinder, which doesn't need a separate IRST for it to work.

 

[Oublious]

Ideally it should be able to relay and guide surface to air missiles onto the target but i have no clue if that is possible with an IRST.... Russians were working on Drone killing drone... Maybe still in the initial phases of testing and not enough numbers to deploy... Haven't seen any with the IRST concept though

It is a BS system, first you need to detect the drone. Why using a drone if you can shoot it down with a missile? Againg first you need to detect.

 

[EAGLE777]

Well if a system that provides around 60-70 km of range would be enough to keep most drones at bay.... Well that's the thing with drones they are cheap to maintain and cheap produce... The TB2 costs around 1 mill $.... A T-90 would be around 6....


Ideally it should be able to relay and guide surface to air missiles onto the target but i have no clue if that is possible with an IRST.... Russians were working on Drone killing drone... Maybe still in the initial phases of testing and not enough numbers to deploy... Haven't seen any with the IRST concept though

TB2 costs $5 million

 

[Hakikat ve Hikmet]

I think a strong air force is needed also to efficiently use them.
Air force will take care of enemy fighter jets while UAVs will take care of moving armored divisions of enemy ground forces.

A good strategy is also required to milk full performance of UAVs.

One thing more, UAV operaters will have to possess huge UAV fleet because chances of UAVs being shot down are always higher.
Ukraine possessed small UAV fleet ( 10-20 maximum) so this fleet against Russia is not enough.

And, to have domestic UAVs with indigenous components to keep the price low. For example TB2s are ridicously cheap to produce with 2 samples per week....

TB2 costs $5 million

Somewhere I read BOM is < 2m$.

 

[Oldman1]

This war has truly exposed the uselessness of Russian military equipment. No wonder Putin went full Modi and started threatening nuclear strikes after his forces were humiliated.

I don't think its just uselessness, I think its the training of troops. You already seen how horrible it is with basic logistics, now they have a hard time defending themselves from air attacks. I shudder to think about these troops with no training in urban combat. If they try to take Kiev, thousands of Russian troops will die in days.