The Bangladesh factor in a future Pakistan India conflict.

[PakistaniAtBahrain]

میر سے دینو مضحب مت پوچھو اُن نے تو
کشکا کھیچا دیر میں بیٹھے کب کا ترک اسلام کیا-
Trans: We can be idealistic and wish for the best but the ground realities as of now are different.

i know. i was just saying as per Islam, the ummah/unity will return.

 

[Avicenna]

This thread has taken a retarded turn.

In what planet will you ever see BAF piloted Tejas over the Thar?

Absurd.

Bangladesh is concerned about Bangaldesh.

It appears that there is focus on the economy and human development above all else.

As such, maximum avoidance of conflict.

@Baibars_1260 This obsession about India/BD versus PK future scenario is bizarre.

 

[Old School]

We saw BD armed forces contingent taking part at the recent Indian republic day parade for the first time in history. There were frequent visits from BD army generals at the LOC in the past years. India and BD hold regular excercises on interoperability. What do these things mean for Pakistan ? GHQ is not surprised after all giving the fact that Bangladeshi state itself is an Indian construction. There are Bengalis here in PDF who may not be happy with their Hasina government but they are not friends of Pakistan either. They expose their anti-Pakistani emotions whenever there are some slips of tongue.
I want to remind the readers a very bitter truth. The name 'Bangladesh' itself stands out as the anti-Thesis of what Pakistan is all about. No matter who rules Bangladesh , this reality will never change. In any future conflict, any Indian ally will be treated with the same resolute response by our Armed forces without hesitation be it Bangladesh or whoever.

 

[nahtanbob]

This thread has taken a retarded turn.

In what planet will you ever see BAF piloted Tejas over the Thar?

Absurd.

Bangladesh is concerned about Bangaldesh.

It appears that there is focus on the economy and human development above all else.

As such, maximum avoidance of conflict.

@Baibars_1260 This obsession about India/BD versus PK future scenario is bizarre.

Bangladesh will try to be militarily neutral in India-Pakistan conflict. Depending on the exact situation they could appease India by providing political and diplomatic support

The real kicker is what happens to Bangladesh in a full fledged India-China conflict

Couid we focus on the topic please?

Fact:
1. Pakistan and Bangladesh are two separate sovereign countries with no shared border or territorial disputes.
2. There are no strategic clash of interests between Pakistan and Bangladesh.

Why then is Bangladesh hostile to Pakistan, and why does its armed forces ally with Pakistan's enemy?

Why does Bangladesh make statements on Kashmir when that disputed territory is a bilateral matter between India and Pakistan?

is there any real proof bangladesh supports india militarily ?

 

[Baibars_1260]

In what planet will you ever see BAF piloted Tejas over the Thar?

Absurd.

In what "planet" did we see Bangladeshi troops marching in the Indian Republic Day Parade ?

In what "planet" did we see the BAF Air Chief flying in an IAF Tejas ?

In what "planet" have we seen BN and IN naval exercises?

In what "planet " have we seen
BA and IA joint exercises ?

In what "planet" have we seen the BA Army Chief attend as chief guest, the passing out parade of the Indian Military Academy in Dehra Dun ?

In what "planet " have we seen the BA Army Chief attend as chief guest the passing out parade of Indian National Defence Academy?

In what "planet " do senior BAF and IAF officials meet to discuss exercises

So in the same "planet " we are likely to see a BAF piloted Tejas or Mig 29 over Thar which is far more lightly defended than further north
War gaming and "What if " scenarios is how any nation perceives threats .

As I said in my earlier post. We are one millionth your GDP and are likely to slip to a billionth of your GDP. We are not bothered because your chief product is RMG and your prime expertise is tailoring, When you develop sufficient expertise to point a nuclear tipped IRBM on us like India does then we will worry.
Meanwhile a few BAF piloted Tejas is all we have to worry about from Bangladesh.
There are far more serious threats for which we have the kalma e shuhuda on our lips.

Meanwhile you could do your own "What ifs ..." , a 20 kt baby landing in Motijheel.

 

[Peace be there]

A single nuke will damage Bangladesh more than any other country in the world,

It seems you are the only one with the nukes.

 

[Baibars_1260]

It seems you are the only one with the nukes.

Never dreamt that two South Asian nations with the second and third largest Muslim populations would be talking of nuking each other but unfortunately the scenario is possible.

As a Pakistani I don't relish this thought, and in fact most Indians don't relish this thought either.
Having the power, and testing it is a sobering thought.

Unfortunately, those who would ride piggy back on our enemies to harm us, and humiliate us underestimate our resolve to defend our land and our honor.

It is far more likely that India may consider using it's ally as a proxy or as a "peace keeping " mercenary force in the dream event that we capitulate.
The USA used the Kurdish Peshmerga force in a similar manner to hold restive Iraqi territories. Just as the Kurds were promised territory for their fighting men, there may be a deal to deliver territory India's ally desperately needs.,
India's ally is being trained in "peace keeping" operations or rather occupation policing.
Training ally commandos in white water rafting is being done with a purpose with long term resources in mind such as policing the Kuhnar river in Naran.

Bangladesh Army officers learn white-water rafting from Indian Army

Bangladesh Army officers learn white-water rafting from Indian Army https://menafn.com/1101564803/Bangladesh-Army-officers-learn-white-water-rafting-from-Indian-Army Date 2/8/2021 7:12:23 AM (MENAFN - IANS) Itanagar, Feb 8 (IANS) Two Bangladesh Army officers visited the Army Aqua...

defence.pk

 

[Avicenna]

In what "planet" did we see Bangladeshi troops marching in the Indian Republic Day Parade ?

In what "planet" did we see the BAF Air Chief flying in an IAF Tejas ?

In what "planet" have we seen BN and IN naval exercises?

In what "planet " have we seen
BA and IA joint exercises ?

In what "planet" have we seen the BA Army Chief attend as chief guest, the passing out parade of the Indian Military Academy in Dehra Dun ?

In what "planet " have we seen the BA Army Chief attend as chief guest the passing out parade of Indian National Defence Academy?

In what "planet " do senior BAF and IAF officials meet to discuss exercises

So in the same "planet " we are likely to see a BAF piloted Tejas or Mig 29 over Thar which is far more lightly defended than further north
War gaming and "What if " scenarios is how any nation perceives threats .

As I said in my earlier post. We are one millionth your GDP and are likely to slip to a billionth of your GDP. We are not bothered because your chief product is RMG and your prime expertise is tailoring, When you develop sufficient expertise to point a nuclear tipped IRBM on us like India does then we will worry.
Meanwhile a few BAF piloted Tejas is all we have to worry about from Bangladesh.
There are far more serious threats for which we have the kalma e shuhuda on our lips.

Meanwhile you could do your own "What ifs ..." , a 20 kt baby landing in Motijheel.

For every one of your "points": So what?

None of that means anything.

As for the armed conflict between Pakistan and Bangladesh that you seem to be fetishizing here, of course Bangladesh doesn't match up in the conventional sense.

But military prowess clearly isn't Bangladesh's priority.

I certainly am not anti-Pakistan.

However, I AM anti Pakistanis like you.

Also maulana, you have no ownership on the Kalima.

Absurdly ironic as well given your worldview.

Again, in no way shape or form will Bangladesh materially help India in any conflict with Pakistan.

Certainly not in the form of pilots participating in the conflict.

But you and your ilk here feel free to carry on this circlejerk of a thread.

I need something to read while I chill.

 

[X-ray Papa]

For every one of your "points": So what?

None of that means anything.

As for the armed conflict between Pakistan and Bangladesh that you seem to be fetishizing here, of course Bangladesh doesn't match up in the conventional sense.

But military prowess clearly isn't Bangladesh's priority.

I certainly am not anti-Pakistan.

However, I AM anti Pakistanis like you.

Also maulana, you have no ownership on the Kalima.

Absurdly ironic as well given your worldview.

Again, in no way shape or form will Bangladesh materially help India in any conflict with Pakistan.

Certainly not in the form of pilots participating in the conflict.

But you and your ilk here feel free to carry on this circlejerk of a thread.

I need something to read while I chill.

Bro just leave it, They cant even take their beloved Kashmir from India and they want to nuke Bangladesh.
Now i know why Afghans and Iranians are hostile to a wannabe Superpower.

 

[Baibars_1260]

For every one of your "points": So what?

Is that all you can say ?
See my response further in this thread.

None of that means anything.

What does it mean ?

India doesn't have this military relationship with any other nation, not even with Nepal, tens of thousands of whose citizens actually serve in the Indian Armed Forces.

Why can't you be honest like your ally and say we will wreck Pakistan if we can.

As for the armed conflict between Pakistan and Bangladesh that you seem to be fetishizing here, of course Bangladesh doesn't match up in the conventional sense.

No we are not "fetishizing" . Bangladesh is no threat to Pakistan alone, but you will be a threat ( a minor one ), when fighting piggy back with your ally, which is what you have done before; which is what you will do again and which is what you are preparing for. Preparing for with training, exercises, exchange of intelligence, and open solidarity in spectacular march past parades .

My answer to your "planets" to which you defiantly replied "so? "
is that , "so there will be future consequences ".

But military prowess clearly isn't Bangladesh's priority.

Obviously. Why give priority to "military prowess" when you have access to piggybacking on the fourth largest conventional and nuclear power in the world.
Piggybacking on our enemy for a future conflict to devastate us.

I certainly am not anti-Pakistan.
However, I AM anti Pakistanis like you.

I am not anti-Bengali either. I speak a little of the language, understand street Bengali ( West ), and enjoy Bengali music, theater and movies.
West Bengali patriotic music is particularly touching, because of its humanism, inclusivity and secularism.
I have visited and briefly worked in Bangladesh as well as West Bengal ( for which I obviously have a preference). My social circle has a West Bengali left wing Marxist crowd., Which is why I understand the Bangladeshi mindset better than other Pakistanis, and I can understand your language, and the vulgar abuse your crowd hurls on my people on this forum, in the blissful ignorance that Pakistanis don't understand your language.

We do understand and understand you well and we will translate and let other Pakistanis know what you really think of us.

So yes, I am not anti- Bengali and not even anti-Bangladeshi because the common Bangladeshi
is more concerned staying afloat.
It is the super "Mukti Joddhas" marching with our enemy that I am against.

Also maulana, you have no ownership on the Kalima.
Absurdly ironic as well given your worldview.

Sarcasm seems to escape you.
Never claimed ownership of the kalma. Whatever gave you that idea?
It's not only maulanas who know the kalma, and I suppose ( a wild guess ) you know the kalma too.
In case you are interested the following thread is what I was referring to:

Case for Nuclear Civil Defense Preparation.

The case for preparations for surviving a nuclear attack. "It will never happen" is not a good answer to "What if...? " It can happen, and likely will. Pakistan is in extreme danger of a preemptive nuclear strike. The dooms day clock from the Bulletin of Atomic Scientists lists Pakistan as one...

defence.pk

Again, in no way shape or form will Bangladesh materially help India in any conflict with Pakistan.

How do you know? Your armed forces successfully defeated us fighting alongside India before.
Why wouldn't your armed forces do it again? Especially since your government never ratified the Delhi Agreement after the last war.

Certainly not in the form of pilots participating in the conflict.

Really ? Like in Operation Kilo Flight ?

 

[Thorough Pro]

LOL, no one in Pakistan gives an Eff to what side Bangali's would take, besides we already know

The Bangladesh factor in a future Pakistan India conflict.
Can Bangladeshi "neutrality" be taken for granted?
Is it far fetched to assume Bangladesh is not neutral, and does pose a very minuscule but still possible threat to Pakistan?

Let's look at the facts:

1.0 Overall picture:
Bangladesh has supported India in all its military actions against Pakistan since 1971.
2.0 Military interoperability and alliance:
Bangladesh and India have a formal economic and military alliance , and a complete interoperability and mutual logistics support amongst their armed forces. Bangladesh and Indian armed forces ( particularly the Bangladeshi Navy) exercise and war game with their Indian armed forces counterparts regularly with an undisguised identification of who the "enemy " is.
A large batch of Bangladeshi army officers graduate from India's defense academies ( NDA, Khadakvasla, Indian Military Academy, Dehradun, OTS Madras, ) as well as undergoing advanced training at institutions such as Wellington Staff College. Sharing common equipment BAF maintenance and flying personnel are regularly trained in India.,
2.0 The diplomatic angle:
The Indian Pakistan military confrontations ( Siachen 1985, Operation Brasstacks 1987, Kargil 1999, 2002, 2019, LOC shelling ) have nowhere involved Bangladesh or in anyway affected Bangladeshi security, yet diplomatically Bangladesh has completely sided with India both at international forums such as the UN (or what's left of SAARC ) and on a one on one level echoing the Indian foreign ministry statements and condemning Pakistan.
3.0 Bangladeshi military activity against Pakistan
So far Bangladesh has limited its activity mainly to observers such as during Operations Brass Tacks (1987). Also the BAF takes a keen interest in downed Pakistani military aircraft such as the recovered debris of the PN Breguet Atlantic shot down inside Pakistani airspace by an IAF Mig 21 in 1999.
4. Open threats to Pakistan :
Particularly in 2019 and also before, there have threats made by the foreign office of Bangladesh against Pakistan, echoing the Indian Ministry of Defense and senior Indian Military officers. The threats have been made by the Bangladesh Foreign office only , unlike their ally where chiefs of the three armed forces wings have usually issued threats The Bangladeshi COAS, BAF, ACM, and BN Admiralty have not been making any comments so far.

But why would Bangladesh get involved in an Indian conflict with Pakistan. The simple answer in theory is that there is a mutual defense pact which is supposed to work both ways and India can ask Bangladesh and Bhutan ( and possibly Nepal) to join in a coalition in a war with Pakistan.

The next question is why would India want to involve Bangladesh and Bhutan in a war against Pakistan and would Bangladesh agree.
The answer is that for propaganda purposes India would very much like to have Bangladeshi forces fighting alongside ( deja vu 1971) even though Indian armed forces commanders know that the real impact of Bangladesh's participation in a war with Pakistan would be minimal. Showing a "coalition" is a great diplomatic and psychological warfare feat. Other countries have done this such as the USA who frequently coopts allies in its wars even though their contribution is minimal.
The USA brought Mongolian troops to fight in Iraq as part of the "coalition". The presence of the Mongols ( all 100 of them) was to demoralize the Iraqis recalling the sack of Baghdad by Hulaku Khan in 1258 C.E. The Mongol contingent left after several of their troops were killed by Iraqi resistance.
It's the famous "Us vs You" psychological stance.

Reasons for Bangladesh to join a war against Pakistan:
Economic, diplomatic and political compulsions do produce far fetched scenarios such as the current turn around by most Arab states in favor of Israel. As discussed elsewhere Bangladesh has a severe land and population problem and the solution lies in having open borders with India for population migration. Given the Hindutva rhetoric in India the only way Bangladesh can win over Indian nationalist sentiment is by being more "Hindutva" than the RSS itself.
Since the prime target of Hindutva are Pakistan and Indian Muslims (both of which Bangladesh hates) it makes sense from a strategic point of view to symbolically join the war against Pakistan. Hopefully as a staunch ally a merger with India ( Sikkim style) will be more palatable to a Hindu majority India than it was in 1972 and 1975. The Hindutva regime in India would be closer to their dream of a greater India and it would ensure the Modi regime and its successor Yogi Aditynaths regime a solid electoral foundation going forward for centuries.
( Note: We could discuss Bangladesh's issues in separate thread)
The war game:
We have already war gamed the India Pakistan ultimate showdown scenario and how the war would escalate into a nuclear blood bath so this article is confined to a limited war initiated and planned by the India Bangladesh Axis for a diplomatic and military humiliation of Pakistan where the war would be brief and limited holding the threshold just short of a full Pakistani collapse where Pakistan would use nuclear weapons as a last desperate act of retaliation.
It's a different topic but the war would only be waged when Bangladesh and India believe that Pakistan is sufficiently isolated from its traditional West Asian alliance and economically weakened through international sanctions.
Going forward.
Bangladesh's contribution to India's war effort.
Realistically what would be Bangladesh's contribution to India's military actions on Pakistan's eastern borders.
Air support:
A few BAF Su 30s would probably be flying operations in support of the IAF within Indian airspace . Much of the BAF support would be from transport aircraft as both India and Bangladesh fly C130Js. BAF Mil 17s would probably pitch in. It is doubtful given the training and lack of war experience that BAF would carry out air strikes inside Pakistan, unless they can miraculously come with worthy successors to Rafique and Saiful Azam.
Naval support:
Bangladesh Navy would probably be assisting Indian Navy operations in the Palk Straits trying to intercept Pakistani maritime traffic en-route to China
Army support :
Bangladesh would probably like to avoid casualties hoping for a grand re-enactment of 1971 with the heavy lifting done by India.
BA units are unlikely to be involved in direct fighting especially as there is a severe danger of heavy casualties from a tactical nuclear strike. A few BA units might be positioned as reserves in the rear to function as an occupation force once a portion of the front collapses. India would like to keep the occupied areas under "Muslim" alliance control as their armor moves deeper towards other objectives.
Hopefully the presence of Muslim troops will deter a partisan Mujahid resistance.

The ultimate war game
Pakistan does not share borders with Bangladesh and so there are fewer ways Pakistan can retaliate in a limited conflict. Bangladesh's forces have a huge advantage operating from friendly Indian territory.
. Pakistani submarines would doubtless target Bangladeshi commercial maritime traffic through the Arabian sea and BAF aircraft operating in Indian airspace would be fair game. Bangladesh Army units stationed in the rear of the IB within artillery and MRLS range would definitely be targeted.
We could war game a huge number of scenarios elsewhere but to conclude with the question:

In an ultimate Apocalypse Pakistan would be targeting Kolkata. Would Pakistan strike Dhaka and the rest of Bangladesh as well, knowing that the vast majority of the civilian deaths would be of our so called "brethren in faith" ?

 

[Baibars_1260]

LOL, no one in Pakistan gives an Eff to what side Bangali's would take, besides we already know

@Avicenna

We know of course but very few , both Pakistanis and Bangladeshis admit this which is why this thread was started to confront and admit the reality.
Most of us Pakistanis are hiding behind the "brotherhood" factor? thinking that some how Bangladesh can be persuaded to confront India in a "second front ". Our delusions are hilarious and provide much comic relief to Indians and Bangladeshis.

Obvious points :

Bangladesh as a sovereign independent nation, has the sacred right to military alliances, and military participation in the wars its allies will launch. It also has the choice to the level of participation and choice to take the consequences.

Bangladesh views Pakistan as an enemy country though it lacks a border or long distance capabilities to initiate and carry a war deep into Pakistani territory. Therefore the obvious strategy is to team up with India which has a border, and the capabilities to hit deep inside Pakistan. Of course there are consequences which India is aware of and indeed has even experienced in probing air and ground attacks.
Bangladesh would like to let India do the heavy lifting and hopes to escape the consequences. It would like to be visible in the victory parade down Islamabad's Constitution Avenue.

Bengali language media and Bangladeshi social media is pretty clear on how Bangladesh's geo-political status is to be sculpted with the help of India. The bon-homie and deep friendship with India displayed on Bengali Social Media is impressive. Pakistanis should learn Bengali and monitor the social media to know the trends.

This thread was intended to be a "What if..." scenario assuming the stand of Bangladesh, and then
moving to the "nuts and bolts " of the conflict like how many brigades or divisions Bangladesh would deploy or how many squadrons of combat aircraft would be available.

Theoretically the entire Bangladesh Army, Navy and Airforce could be deployed and that would be India's part answer to a two front war with China.

 

[Xone]

"brethren in faith" ?

They are only so-called "brethren in faith", who preferred enemy over you time and again. so decision should be obvious in response.

 

[Old School]

Pakistanis should learn Bengali and monitor the social media to know the trends.

We have been monitoring Bengali social media for a long time. This is obviously beyond the scopes of our fellow PDF forum members. Young Pakistanis hardly think beyond fancy hardwares, Afghanistan, cricket and IT career these days. Our policy makers in Islamabad still suffer from a "guilty feeling" towards East Pakistan and that is also why they usually refrain from making anything public. Then you have those secular /neo-liberal Pakistanis ( former Indo-Soviet agents) who want to hand Pakistan over to NGOs.

 

[arjunk]

It seems you are the only one with the nukes.

When did Bangladesh get nuclear armed MRBMs? Or are you telling me India is willing to be vapourised to retaliate on behalf of its satellite state which it treats like shit.