The Bangladesh factor in a future Pakistan India conflict.

[Baibars_1260]

Ironic, Indian support for Bangladeshi self determination is OK. Pakistani support for Kashmiri self determination is unacceptable to Bangladesh?


Bangladesh stands by India .
Slams Pakistan for statement that India interfered during 1971 crisis.

Bangladesh stands by India; slams Pakistan for statement that India interfered during 1971 crisis

Bangladesh came out strongly in Indias support, slamming Pakistan for its statement that India interfered during the 1971 political crisis.

m.economictimes.com

Kashmir India's Internal Matter Bangladesh foreign minister tells Pak FM.

Kashmir India’s internal matter: Bangladesh Foreign Minister tells Pak FM

Bangladesh maintains that the abrogation of Article 370 by the Indian government is an internal issue of India, said the foreign ministry, sharing Bangladesh's position on the issue.

m.economictimes.com

 

[Baibars_1260]

Bangladesh Indian Armed Forces Military exercises against whom?
---------------------------------------

14 day joint military exercise by Indian Bangladesh armies.

14-day joint military exercise by Indian, Bangladesh armies begin

The exercise christened 'SAMPRITI-IX' is an important bilateral defence cooperation endeavour between India and Bangladesh. This is the ninth edition of the exercise which is hosted alternately by the two countries. The Bangladesh Army contingent is being led by Brigadier General Md Shafiul...

m.economictimes.com

 

[Jobless Jack]

Once again, points well taken...
If Bangladesh maintains minimum neutrality it is a desirable situation.
A recap again...with Bangladesh in the picture.

In 1987 with the Soviets still in Afghanistan India launched a huge military mobilization of its air, naval and land armor assets to destroy Pakistan called Operation Brass Tacks.
This was right in the middle of a Bangladesh sponsored SAARC summit. The Pakistani prime minister was actually inside India attending the summit.
The objective on the Indian side was that Pakistan had to be quickly overrun before it was successful in it's quest for nuclear weapons. The offensive was planned by one of India's most capable COAS Krishna Swamy Sundarji.
It is entirely unconfirmed,? and this is hearsay only ( will let other PDF members comment), but India did reach out to Bangladesh for both diplomatic approval and military participation.
In any event Pakistan's quick counter mobilization and the degradation of Soviet capabilities in Afghanistan due to Majahideen activity resulted in the operation being called off.
Bangladesh maintained neutrality, but then Bangladesh had a far more neutral oriented government.
The minimum hope is that all governments in Bangladesh maintain neutrality in an India Pakistan conflict.

Correct

But, Pakistans hope of dismembering and ultimately defeating india, lie with bangladesh. A quick look at the map will tell you. Your generals are well aware.

The chinese will give you the intelligence data, might mobilize to tie up a few Division's in the india china border but ultimately the main threat is a BD that is against india, and a indian northeast that is loyal to bd.

China and Bangladesh have a defense cooperation agreement

2002, China and Bangladesh signed a “Defence Cooperation Agreement

China is the only country with which Bangladesh has a formal defence cooperation agreement
@Baibars_1260

India-Bangladesh defence cooperation: Coming of age, at last?

India-Bangladesh defence cooperation: Coming of age, at last?

www.orfonline.org

Bangladesh-China relations have metamorphosed into a strategic partnership

Bangladesh is an important player among South Asian states for China’s political-military realism. Such strategic partnership with Dhaka provides Beijing with added leverage to check Indian forces,…

blogs.lse.ac.uk

China, Bangladesh sign landmark defence pact - Times of India

World News: BEIJING: A day after inking a landmark bilateral defence cooperation agreement, Chinese leaders on Wednesday described Bangladesh as "a reliable and t

m.timesofindia.com

My point exactly.

But i was responding to the OP assuming that BD and india has a defense agreement. Highly unlikely.

Bangladesh is key to the india north east. Pakistan knows this, china knows this India knows this.

 

[CIA Mole]

if pakistan loses, bd is next

 

[Baibars_1260]

Correct

But, Pakistans hope of dismembering and ultimately defeating india, lie with bangladesh. A quick look at the map will tell you. Your generals are well aware.

The chinese will give you the intelligence data, might mobilize to tie up a few Division's in the india china border but ultimately the main threat is a BD that is against india, and a indian northeast that is loyal to bd.

My point exactly.

But i was responding to the OP assuming that BD and india has a defense agreement. Highly unlikely.

Bangladesh is key to the india north east. Pakistan knows this, china knows this India knows this.

Here is an extract from the India Bangladesh Treaty of Friendship and Cooperation

Article 9

Each of the high Contracting Parties shall refrain from giving any assistance to any third party taking part in an armed conflict, against the other party. In case either party is attacked or threatened with attack, the high contracting parties shall immediately enter into mutual consultations in order to take appropriate effective measures to eliminate the threat and thus ensure the peace and security of their counties.

-------------------
There is no rhetoric or statements from the current Pakistan government to dismember India or even retake Indian occupied Kashmir ( as against the Indian home minister's declaration to retake Aksai Chin and Azad Kashmir).
Pakistan has neither the capacity nor the intent to attempt any military solution to territorial issues with India. Pakistan's policy is strictly defensive, with the long term strategic objective of simply survival against an all out Indian assault. The first objective is to deter the assault by conventional means imposing costs on the aggression and the second objective is to assure a mutual destruction.,
Pakistan's defense strategy does not account for any offensive by Bangladesh. This had never been assumed even when Bangladesh was part of Pakistan as the territory of East Pakistan. The strategy then ( from 1947 to 1970) for East Pakistan was purely defensive, and even that was untenable given the logistical and geographical disadvantages. It waa assumed that any conflict in the west would keep India preoccupied to not-consider an all out invasion of the east. As can be seen in the 1971 Civil War this was a wrong assumption.
India's North East rebel territories has a population base that is too small to allow any insurrection to be successful against the Indian army.

 

[Bambi]

2002, China and Bangladesh signed a “Defence Cooperation Agreement

China is the only country with which Bangladesh has a formal defence cooperation agreement

India-Bangladesh defence cooperation: Coming of age, at last?

India-Bangladesh defence cooperation: Coming of age, at last?

www.orfonline.org

Bangladesh-China relations have metamorphosed into a strategic partnership

Bangladesh is an important player among South Asian states for China’s political-military realism. Such strategic partnership with Dhaka provides Beijing with added leverage to check Indian forces,…

blogs.lse.ac.uk

China, Bangladesh sign landmark defence pact - Times of India

World News: BEIJING: A day after inking a landmark bilateral defence cooperation agreement, Chinese leaders on Wednesday described Bangladesh as "a reliable and t

m.timesofindia.com

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.orfonline.org/expert-speak/bangladesh-chinese-defence-minister-visit-change-raises-eyebrows/

China offers Bangladesh tariff exemption for 97% of exports from Dhaka amid tensions with India - Business Insider India

In a bid to woo Bangladesh, China has provided a huge trade boost to the country by announcing tariff exemption for 97 per cent of Bangladeshi products effective

www.google.com

 

[Baibars_1260]

Over the years the alliance is strengthened....The article below by an Indian Army officer Major General Yash Mor ( Retd.) looks to the future...Much of the article is the usual nostalgia and India Bangladesh Bhai Bhai stuff but the hint is to the future:

Important Extract from the article below:

"India and Bangladesh have seen renewed synergy in all aspects of cooperation. The armies share cordial relations and have a working relationship that far exceeds the formality of defence diplomacy. Officers of both countries attend numerous courses in each other’s training institutions. Both the army chiefs have been invited as chief guests in the Passing Out Parades in each other’s commissioning academies"

-----------------------------------------
1971 to 2021 – We fought together, now Bangladesh Army marches with us on Republic Day

1971 to 2021 – We fought together, now Bangladesh Army marches with us on Republic Day

India and Bangladesh are celebrating 50 years of the 1971 Liberation War — one of the finest victories in modern military history.

theprint.in

The sight of the Bangladesh Army contingent proudly marching down New Delhi’s Rajpath on 26 January is a rare event indeed. Scarcely can anyone believe that it has been 50 years of the liberation of Bangladesh from Pakistani rule. What an occasion to celebrate one of the finest military victories in modern history. Rarely has there been a military campaign like the India-Pakistan war of 1971 in the Eastern theatre...
( Full article in the link )

Bangladesh Army Chief attends passing out parade at IMA

Bangladesh Army chief General Abu Belal Muhammad Shafiul Huq attended the passing out parade at Dehradun's Indian Military Academy (IMA) as the Reviewing Officer (RO), on Saturday.The event saw the passing out of 487 Gentlemen Cadets (GC) of 141

www.business-standard.com

 

[VkdIndian]

if pakistan loses, bd is next

Come on dude.

This sounds as if Pakistan is holding off India against Bangladesh. Kuch bhi?

Ironic, Indian support for Bangladeshi self determination is OK. Pakistani support for Kashmiri self determination is unacceptable to Bangladesh?

It is all about bigger picture and geopolitics. Pakistan’s legs start shaking when it is about Uyghurs. What about self determination in Balochistan? Don’t get angry on me for saying this. Because I am ok with this. Go ahead and take a stance on these as you wish as per your interests.

Similarly, don’t get angry when OIC or other Muslim countries don’t hold your hand. They have realised that Pakistan is trying to get its agenda going by calling wolf (Muslim card).

Bangladesh aspiring for peaceful relations with India and vice versa seems to infuriate most of the green flags. WHY? The borders between two countries are manned by the border forces and nowhere as hostile as LOC. Border fencing has been erected to prevent smuggling etc. That’s it.

Currently, Bangladesh spends very less on its defence forces and is able to focus on its economy. But, someone reading this thread would get an impression as if it is about to be invaded by India.

In conclusion, I request War Mongerers to take a chill pill and relax.

 

[Baibars_1260]

Come on dude.

This sounds as if Pakistan is holding off India against Bangladesh. Kuch bhi?

Agree with you about the delusion some Pakistanis still have about "brotherhood". This is the delusion that held my nation hostage for 24 years to defending a remote swampland inhabited by an intensely hostile and parochial population. We should have left that region to its fate in 1947.

It is all about bigger picture and geopolitics. Pakistan’s legs start shaking when it is about Uyghurs. What about self determination in Balochistan? Don’t get angry on me for saying this. Because I am ok with this. Go ahead and take a stance on these as you wish as per your interests.

"What aboutery " as usual...
1. Xinjiang is not a disputed territory between China and Pakistan ( unlike Kashmir) therefore the status of Uyghurs and Xinjiang is an internal matter for China and of no concern for Pakistan.

2. Likewise the status of Baluchistan is not a disputed territory between Pakistan and India and therefore should be of no concern to India.

If India should have any concerns based on religious persecution of minorities it should be for the fate of Hindus in Bangladesh which is the largest minority population of Hindus anywhere in the world.

Similarly, don’t get angry when OIC or other Muslim countries don’t hold your hand. They have realised that Pakistan is trying to get its agenda going by calling wolf (Muslim card).

Similarly don't get angry when your Nepali Hindu brethren teams up with China to protest territorial aggression by India and doesn't "hold your hand " condemning atrocities on Hindus in Pakistan, Bangladesh, and Afghanistan.

Bangladesh aspiring for peaceful relations with India and vice versa seems to infuriate most of the green flags. WHY? The borders between two countries are manned by the border forces and nowhere as hostile as LOC. Border fencing has been erected to prevent smuggling etc. That’s it.

Your Border Security Force shoots about 30-40 Bangladeshi civilians each year . We have recently started a thread on this. Please contribute here and comment.

Why does India's Border Security Force Shoot Bangladeshi Civilians?

Human rights watch https://www.hrw.org/reports/bangladesh1219_brochure_web.pdf Why does India's Border Security Force Shoot Bangladeshi Civilians? (Pakistan's Ministry of Foreign affairs should condemn the wanton shooting of Bangladeshi civilians by India's Border Security Force.) Over...

defence.pk

Currently, Bangladesh spends very less on its defence forces and is able to focus on its economy. But, someone reading this thread would get an impression as if it is about to be invaded by India.

On the contrary if you read the opening post carefully the thread is about the possibility of a modest Bangladesh Armed Forces participation in a future India Pakistan conflict more with a view to optics.

In conclusion, I request War Mongerers to take a chill pill and relax.

Agree. Independent combat capabilities of the Bangladesh Armed Forces is modest and the Civil War hype was only possible with superb Indian Armed Forces assistance. Post-1971 The Bangladesh Armed forces ( parades aside) have displayed very inadequate capabilities for warfare faring badly against Chakma Shanti Bahini insurgents.
Now they are fearful of a few JF17 Thunder aircraft owned by Myanmar.
Who Bangladesh is going to fight next is an open question.
Bangladeshi warmongering statements against my nation are frequent and loud, when my nation shares no border with that nation and with no territorial disputes. India's stance towards my nation has a basis from their POV . Why Bangladesh?
It is Bangladeshi warmongers dreaming of war on a distant frontier on my nation. There are of course consequences for such actions.

 

[PAKISTANFOREVER]

Come on dude.

This sounds as if Pakistan is holding off India against Bangladesh. Kuch bhi?



It is all about bigger picture and geopolitics. Pakistan’s legs start shaking when it is about Uyghurs. What about self determination in Balochistan? Don’t get angry on me for saying this. Because I am ok with this. Go ahead and take a stance on these as you wish as per your interests.

Similarly, don’t get angry when OIC or other Muslim countries don’t hold your hand. They have realised that Pakistan is trying to get its agenda going by calling wolf (Muslim card).

Bangladesh aspiring for peaceful relations with India and vice versa seems to infuriate most of the green flags. WHY? The borders between two countries are manned by the border forces and nowhere as hostile as LOC. Border fencing has been erected to prevent smuggling etc. That’s it.

Currently, Bangladesh spends very less on its defence forces and is able to focus on its economy. But, someone reading this thread would get an impression as if it is about to be invaded by India.

In conclusion, I request War Mongerers to take a chill pill and relax.

What issue with the Uighurs? The one claimed by the SAME people who also claimed that Iraq had WMD that could destroy Europe in 30 mins?..........

So what happened to the skinniest legs on the planet after the Chinese cracked open the skulls of 20 indian soldiers and splattered their brain matter all over the Galway Valley.........

 

[PakistaniAtBahrain]

What about self determination in Balochistan?

what about it? most Balochis dont want independence. all polls indicate what i just stated. even neutral ones like Gallop. in 2012-ish, at the peak of all the unrest in Balochistan, Gallop poll said over 60% of Balochis want to stay with Pakistan. maybe you should question the quality of information you consume from Arnab Gauswami, Sambit Patra, Zee News, etc.

 

[VkdIndian]

1. Xinjiang is not a disputed territory between China and Pakistan (unlike Kashmir) therefore the status of Uyghurs.

Is Palestine a disputed territory between Pakistan and Israel? NO. With your logic Pakistan should not say a word about Palestine. But is that the case? You know the answer.
You know the Pakistani pitch to OIC for support on Kashmir? It is atrocities against Muslims.
Hence, the logic of disputed territory being the defining factor for human rights violations doesn’t hold much water.

Similarly don't get angry when your Nepali Hindu

Use of religion as a means of diplomacy is Pakistan’s forte. With Nepal, India quotes its historic ties and not religion. And for your information China has been already sidelined by the Nepali PM. If China and Pakistan can make an alliance with Nepal, please go ahead.

Your Border Security Force shoots about 30-40 Bangladeshi civilians each year .

India and Bangladesh already have a mechanism to address the bilateral issues. What are the circumstances and how the shootings happen is investigated and Pakistan can keep out of it. You want to create a thread on it, please go ahead. India needs to answer Bangladesh on this not Pakistan.

Coming to the topic of this thread. Any smart country would remain neutral in a conflict that doesn’t affect it directly. That is what Bangladesh likely to do. It would be futile for it to start building forces against much bigger India for an imaginary conflict.

 

[Baibars_1260]

What issue with the Uighurs? The one claimed by the SAME people who also claimed that Iraq had WMD that could destroy Europe in 30 mins?..........

So what happened to the skinniest legs on the planet after the Chinese cracked open the skulls of 20 indian soldiers and splattered their brain matter all over the Galway Valley.........

Remarkable display of sympathy for Uyghurs by Indians.
They are silent on the persecution of Hindus and Chakma Buddhists in Bangladesh.

Minority sympathies are a convenient diplomatic tool.

No Indian answers the question:

"Who is the Bangladeshi army going to fight ? "

The obvious answer:

In an optics

what about it? most Balochis dont want independence. all that polls indicate what i just stated. even neutral ones like Gallop. in 2012-ish, at the peak of all the unrest in Balochistan, Gallop poll said over 60% of Balochis want to stay with Pakistan. maybe you should question the quality of information you consume from Arnab Gauswami, Sambit Patra, Zee News, etc.

Let's not fall for their bait. This is a typical tactic to derail the thread.
Let's concentrate on the topic of Bangladesh.
If at all discuss Bangladeshi Hindus.

 

[VkdIndian]

So what happened to the skinniest legs on the planet after the Chinese cracked open the skulls of 20 indian soldiers and splattered their brain matter all over the Galway Valley...

Exactly same as unnamed, unrecognised, unhonoured PLA soldiers.

Remarkable display of sympathy for Uyghurs by Indians.

It has nothing to do with sympathy for anyone. It is just to show a mirror to those who quote religious affinity for support on various causes.

Arnab Gauswami, Sambit Patra, Zee News, etc.

They may be your heroes but not mine. I don’t follow any of these and I just hear about them. I am sure that you too have your share of similar people in the media.

 

[jupiter2007]

Who will discuss the intelligence piece?
Mukti Bahani succeeded only through a robust intelligence system made possible.

Bangladesh as a country will choose India. Bangladeshis as people would always choose themselves.

The argument of brethren in faith has no relevance in Pak Bangla affairs.

It’s not the whole truth. Sometime one need to look at things from a different angle.
I have meet many Bangladeshi who worked for Pakistani arm forces and in foreign affairs. I have told some of you the story of Bengalis working in Pakistani embassy in DC. After the fall of Dakha, they were kicked out of Pakistani embassy and for 18 days they didn’t know if were Pakistani. Once Bangladeshi embassy was established, they were hired by Bangladeshi government.
It’s not just that, how are we treating Bengali minority in Pakistan. Majority don’t even have ID cards. They can’t get education and can’t find jobs. Do expect our relationship to be perfect with them? Do you know how Punjabi used to tease them?
Majority of Bengali were educated and on higher positions in Pakistani government, civil service as well as arm forces, pilots, engineers and technicians, etc but unfortunately they were systematically removed and alienated by our establishment.

Even today people think that Bengali are some alien species and Balochi are our brothers. They don’t even know their own history. Without the struggle of Bengali, there would have been no Pakistan. Most of the Punjab and Sindh was backward, uneducated, farmer, etc. Even the economist who talk about Pakistan’s GDP was higher in 60s without mentioning East Pakistan. If you compare it with “Punky and the Brain”, They were the Brain in our establishment was the pinky. Unfortunately we are now left with Pinky with no clue how to run the government.

There are estimated 3.5 million Bengalis living mainly in Sindh and their population will grow to 4 millions by year 2030. According to some, there are 7 million people Of Bengali background and few millions have already integrated into Pakistani society, for example Allamgir, Rashid Latif and others.

Some of Bengalis may have been refugees/migrant worker who came to Pakistan during late 80s and early 90s but majority of them are Pakistani who have decided to stay in Pakistan after 1971 instead of returning to Bangladesh and they call Pakistan their home. Bengali have been living in Pakistan for over 50+ years but majority of them are not properly documented, and main reason is Sindh government. They are poor because they can not work without NIC and mainly involved in fisheries industries. I have not heard about their involved in any major crimes other then fake peers or begging. They mostly live peacefully and do odd jobs. Bengali are naturally smart people, and if given an opportunity they can really excel.