Taliban warn of reprisal if PML-N govt hangs militants

[Menace2Society]

I would disagree, with increasing converts(visible here) and others as well who do conform to the high ground for these militants. They are much more than a nuisance; they are an existential threat to Pakistan. Defeating them is not easy simply because there is no clear counter ideology to theirs. No single united agreement on the baseline for dealing with them.
Some want to fall under their rule, others want them to control post aspects except their own bread and butter... with various levels of acquiescence to general ignorance of the issue.. These takfiris are a major problem indeed.

Well if you break it down, there are groups who receive funding from India/Mossad/ possibly CIA but doubt it to wreck as much havoc as they can. That is literally their job function.

It is very easy to get a handful of moderately intelligent folk, teach them an ideology which has been created specifically to target ideology of Pakistan in an attempt to disturb the social fabric of the country and ultimately to bring it to a grinding halt.

They will then pass on this knowledge to everyone in the local areas who probably most of them cannot even read or write. Blackmail and threaten them to take part. You have yourself a militia, simples.

Then India along with whoever else wants to join in will proceed to f**k us royally up the backside. That will definitely fulfill the prophecies by handing territory and influence back to India I mean what moron living in Pakistan would buy into such an ideology and also be a devout Muslim?

To break their ideology is easier than you think, we need rehabilitation camps set up everywhere in tribal belt to begin teaching these people of what really is the world situation.

 

[muse]

@Oscar -- Would Islamist terror thrive as it does in Pakistan without a nurturing environment? Now, if your answer is "No? it would not, then you are in the position of saying that there is great support for islamist terrorism in Pakistan, after all, they are in every town, village and city, isn't this so?

And if you say "Yes" Islamist terror does not need nurturing environment, you would have to explain why it thrives in places such as Pakistan but not lets say Brazil for instance

So it seems a necessary condition for the thriving of islamist terror is the presence of large numbers of Muslims, would you agree?

What might we conclude from this??

Saying that it would have been wiser for them to remove the banner in the background is tantamount to me banning dancing... Muse, come on. You really are better than this.

The principle is what I am referring to - Respect to you seems to mean, my way or hiway - but such attitudes enable others, don't you think, for instance islamist argue ther same, it's their way or they will ensure you come to some harm - right? It's nebver just live and let live - the wages of respect

 

[Secur]

I would disagree, with increasing converts(visible here) and others as well who do conform to the high ground for these militants. They are much more than a nuisance; they are an existential threat to Pakistan. Defeating them is not easy simply because there is no clear counter ideology to theirs. No single united agreement on the baseline for dealing with them.
Some want to fall under their rule, others want them to control post aspects except their own bread and butter... with various levels of acquiescence to general ignorance of the issue.. These takfiris are a major problem indeed.

How true , sir , how true . This is the reality on ground . Confused as a nation we are , we know not our friends and enemies , considering Taliban and assorted militant/terrorists groups as Muslims fighting for a righteous cause , declaring all wordily education - the so called ' Angrezi parhai ' wrong , taking conspiracy theories/rumor/hearsay over established facts for almost everything is our MO , the other sect/party is always wrong and lets kill/harm them , eagerness to declare things ' unislamic ' or people ' infidel ' and last but not least , preference of Ummah over our own national interests . You have added the rest , sire .

Perhaps , the ' silent majority ' , we all talk of , doesn't exists . It is only the radicalized masses .

 

[RescueRanger]

The principle is what I am referring to - Respect to you seems to mean, my way or hiway - but such attitudes enable others, don't you think, for instance islamist argue ther same, it's their way or they will ensure you come to some harm - right? It's nebver just live and let live - the wages of respect

Marra, come on... When did i say they should be hanged by their gonads for placing the banner behind them when they were dancing? You will not find any such statement from me.

Im only following your line of assumptions.



I did not say I was defending suicide bombers nor did I refer to them as Muzloum.. You did.. how..you assumed that out of thin air I have no idea but I decide to follow your assumed line of ... assuming.



What sentence or post did you assume I subscribe to that? Again, line of assumptions in progress to suit your idea of what are usual responses to you.. there's nothing that implies I prescribe to those ideas that you assume.



This is my post, yet you have conveniently done exactly what the Nutjobs or their western equivalents(those who critique Islam) do. You have selectively taken a section out of it so to make it seem as if I am defending those terrorists as well. Bravo!
@Secur @RescueRanger As a favour, please read through my posts and tell me If I say anything of which I am accused?

Sir, i have found nothing provocative or suggestive in your posts thus far.

 

[muse]

Menace -- I think there's no point being in denial - Pak Army built these creatures - And Pak Army promoted the ideology and the culture -- Having a mercenary ethic, when Sodie govt money dried up, their creatures turned on them, after all, these creatures were getting private Sodie money now and they think "why do we need these uniformed chaprasees, we can take the whole thing"

 

[Secur]

Well if you break it down, there are groups who receive funding from India/Mossad/ possibly CIA but doubt it to wreck as much havoc as they can. That is literally their job function.

My friend , some of these groups are indeed self sustaining , I can assure you that . Rest , some kind of foreign support is not imaginary or unreal but first correct ourselves . Where do our donations and Zakat go ? Ever thought of it ? Even if 20% finds its way to the terrorists/militants/Mullah brigade , you can assure yourself that this indeed is enough for an year of operation .

@muse

All I see you do here is to assume some things about the person , think its true and then expect others to answer , what you have assumed about them thinking .

 

[Dance]

How true , sir , how true . Confused as a nation we are , we know not our friends and enemies , considering Taliban and assorted militant/terrorists groups as Muslims fighting for a righteous cause , declaring all wordily education - the so called ' Angrezi parhai ' wrong , taking conspiracy theories/rumor/hearsay over established facts for almost everything is our MO , the other sect/party is always wrong and lets kill/harm them , eagerness to declare things ' unislamic ' or people ' infidel ' and last but not least , preference of Ummah over our own national interests . You have added the rest , sire .

Perhaps , the ' silent majority ' , we all talk of , doesn't exists . It is only the radicalized masses .

I really wished Jinnah had lived longer, he might have been able to implement his vision and ideals more fully if he did. Instead he died soon after Pakistan was formed and it successive leaders used religion as a means to control the masses.

In every country/society the new generation is more likely to be more tolerant and rational than the previous one. In Pakistan its backwards!

 

[muse]

@Oscar or any who can answer:

Would Islamist terrorism thrive in Pakistan if there was not a nurturing environment in Pakistan? Islamist terrorists are in every province, every village town and city

How come? is there a nurturing environment for islamist terror in Pakistan?

@muse

All I see you do here is to assume some things about the person , think its true and then expect others to answer , what you have assumed about them thinking .

OK -- lets see if the question about the nurturing environment ever gets answered by @Oscar or even @RescueRanger

 

[Secur]

I really wished Jinnah had lived longer, he might have been able to implement his vision and ideals more fully if he did. Instead he died soon after Pakistan was formed and it successive leaders used religion as a means to control the masses.

In every country/society the new generation is more likely to be more tolerant and rational than the previous one. In Pakistan its backwards!

There is a problem with Pakistanis , Dance . We all want to live in the past , recalling our golden Islamic era . Wishing things and thinking what-if that didn't happen in the history of country . The time for all it , is well past . Its time to think-rethink . I can understand your opinion , but it didn't happen . If he had , surely , Pakistan would have much much better . But since he didn't , what should we do now ?

Strangely , yes . I do not understand , why .

 

[RescueRanger]

@Oscar or any who can answer:

Would Islamist terrorism thrive in Pakistan if there was not a nurturing environment in Pakistan? Islamist terrorists are in every province, every village town and city

How come? is there a nurturing environment for islamist terror in Pakistan?

I agree with your point in so much that yes, many Pakistanis do have a soft corner for such elements. I would not call it nurturing, but when the youth of the past were told of glorified martyrdom in school textbooks, that kind of nonsense can be hard to erase from society.

There is no over the counter instant relief tablet, take two and you will be Taliban free in the morning. This is a very messed up situation we are in and we need to have the resolve to stay in this for the long haul for it to succeed.

 

[muse]

I agree with your point in so much that yes, many Pakistanis do have a soft corner for such elements. I would not call it nurturing, but when the youth of the past were told of glorified martyrdom in school textbooks, that kind of nonsense can be hard to erase from society.

There is no over the counter instant relief tablet, take two and you will be Taliban free in the morning. This is a very messed up situation we are in and we need to have the resolve to stay in this for the long haul for it to succeed.

So what should we make of @Oscar's suggestion that many Pakistani Muslims are terrorists? If not terrorists, are they sympathizers as you suggest?

If yes, why then take offense when the rest of the world thinks so as well? Why be defensive when you guys know the truth all too well - Why make it about the evil West being anti Muslim, when you of all people, know better than most all people, exactly who it is that is anti Muslim, and anti Pakistan?

Evil muse deriding and ridiculing poor misunderstood, suicide bomber glorifying, murdering co religionists at the drop of a hat Muslims?

 

[Secur]

@Secur @RescueRanger As a favour, please read through my posts and tell me If I say anything of which I am accused?

No , you didn't say anything . Mr @muse just assumed every single thing on your part and continued piling upon them . Instead of asking views and the direct question that he wanted .

 

[RescueRanger]

So what should we make of @Oscar's suggestion that many Pakistani Muslims are terrorists? If not terrorists, are they sympathizers as you suggest?

If yes, why then take offense when the rest of the world thinks so as well? Why be defensive when you guys know the truth all too well - Why make it about the evil West being anti Muslim, when you of all people, know better than most all people, exactly who it is that is anti Muslim, and anti Pakistan?

Evil muse deriding and ridiculing poor misunderstood, suicide bomber glorifying, murdering co religionists at the drop of a hat Muslims?

I can't speak for Oscar, i can speak for myself and i said my piece. As for what the world thinks, i lol at that, last i checked the world is not putting bread on my dinner table or petrol in the tank of my car... As for anti Muslim and Anti Pakistani, i am no one to make that distinction, i would struggle to think who could be qualified to be able to pass such judgement.

 

[Dance]

There is a problem with Pakistanis , Dance . We all want to live in the past , recalling our golden Islamic era . Wishing things and thinking what-if that didn't happen in the history of country . The time for all it , is well past . Its time to think-rethink . I can understand your opinion , but it didn't happen . If he had , surely , Pakistan would have much much better . But since he didn't , what should we do now ?

Strangely , yes . I do not understand , why .

Basically what needs to happen is that there needs to be a mass movement against terrorism and its toxic ideology. Why is terrorism thriving in Pakistan? Because the people allow it to thrive. When the majority want a change, the change will happen (an example is the movement towards "democracy" in the Musharraf era). As of right now people are either too scared, too indifferent, or may even support these extremist groups (a combination of all three is probably the case) which is why no one is doing anything.

The leaders in Pakistan confuse the masses by not outrightly saying that these terrorists are out enemies. They're too busy making excuses for their actions.

Until the ideology and basic thinking of the people don't change, you won't see terrorism go away any time soon. How to change the mindset of millions of people who have been indoctrinated with this ideology all their life? I wish I knew the answer to that

 

[Secur]

Evil muse deriding and ridiculing poor misunderstood, suicide bomber glorifying, murdering co religionists at the drop of a hat Muslims?

Shall we declare , all Pakistani terrorists or terrorists sympathizer then , mate ? I do not understand what follows next - Islam is a terrorist religion ?