Taliban gunned down 6 American soldiers.

[jayron]

Hello jayron,

Nice to hear from u, Many of the oppositions in the 3rd world lived in the west and they had their followers in their home countries and made a lot of trouble while their Govt. called them terrorists i can give u long list. Do these countries have the right to do something to the western countries that have these oppostition leaders.

Miss ridley last time when i checked she was muslim if she became muslim by force she can say it after all she is living in the moderate west and say anything or can have any religion.

TARIQ

Come on . you cannot really compare Bugti and Osama bin laden. Has Bugti openly accepted attacking Pakistan and killing thousands?
You cannot really support Osama or 9/11 can you? The Talibans are not the real enemies of Americans . But they did shelter AQ and other dangerous terrorist organizations. The Pakistanis nurture the Taliban only for their strategic gain nothing else. An immoral, inhuman group like Taliban is and will always be a threat to humanity. Just one question. Will the Pakistanis be happy if they are ruled by Taliban? The same should be the answer for Afganistan too.

 

[Jigs]

assalam alaikum,

Brother Jigs, Miss ridley is in the west now she can go back to her previous religion or faith if she was forced.

What agenda taliban have for their country is none of my or urs or anyonge's buissiness just like i have no buissiness who ever rules america or any other country.

TARIQ

It is very much my business when the 2003 bombings in Istanbul happened that al-Qaeda
did and was supported by the Taliban. Sorry but Islamic extremism is not acceptable and it was what caused the death of 3,000 civilians on 9/11. It also caused the thousands of lives killed in Pakistan.

 

[TARIQ BN ZIYAAD]

Come on . you cannot really compare Bugti and Osama bin laden. Has Bugti openly accepted attacking Pakistan and killing thousands?
You cannot really support Osama or 9/11 can you? The Talibans are not the real enemies of Americans . But they did shelter AQ and other dangerous terrorist organizations. The Pakistanis nurture the Taliban only for their strategic gain nothing else. An immoral, inhuman group like Taliban is and will always be a threat to humanity. Just one question. Will the Pakistanis be happy if they are ruled by Taliban? The same should be the answer for Afganistan too.

Hello jayron,

Nobody support osama, while u listen to all these lies about taliban sheltering osama, do u know when osama was kicked out from sudan and came to afghanistan who was the presdient of afghanistan and taliban were not known. Yes it was presidedent rubbani now an american supporter. Taliban came to power while osama was living there. Go and get ur info right plz.

Dont bring pakistan into this.

TARIQ

 

[roadrunner]

That is it though it is not culture. The beard growing thing is Islamic to them. Islamic fundametalism is a problem and has nothing to do with culture. It is not accetable because it leads to death and violence. Are blasphemy laws part of Pakistani culture and should they be respected ? Have you been reading that thread btw ? Look at what some of the people that are being accused of it did.

There isn't much difference between religion and culture. Sometimes religion takes over culture. Even then it's noone elses business to tell someone how to live. If the law says everyone has to wear trousers, i don't see how it's any different. Not everyone may want to wear trousers, but everyone has to. It may lead to violence, that again is a punishment for them to decide. The choice of punishment is not for anyone else to decide, but the Afghans themselves.

The Blasphemy Law is part of Pakistan's Law. So yes, if you're in Pakistan one has to abide by the laws of the land. The thinking that American law and culture is the only one that can make humans happy is just not true.

 

[TARIQ BN ZIYAAD]

It is very much my business when the 2003 bombings in Istanbul happened that al-Qaeda
did and was supported by the Taliban. Sorry but Islamic extremism is not acceptable and it was what caused the death of 3,000 civilians on 9/11. It also caused the thousands of lives killed in Pakistan.

assalam alaikum

May Allah protect Turky and all muslim countries ( ameen)

TARIQ

 

[jayron]

Hello jayron,

Nobody support osama, while u listen to all these lies about taliban sheltering osama, do u know when osama was kicked out from sudan and came to afghanistan who was the presdient of afghanistan and taliban were not known. Yes it was presidedent rubbani now an american supporter. Taliban came to power while osama was living there. Go and get ur info right plz.

Dont bring pakistan into this.

TARIQ

Obama was not a threat to the world as much when he came to Afghanistan first. But after 9/11 the situation changed and he became notorious around the world. I brought Pakistan into the argument just to know why there is a double standard. Pakistanis like their neighbor to live like savages but they want more freedom and a modern state for themselves. It is clearly not a question of support for muslims. If that's the case why not support northern alliance? It is just politics and playing one against other for strategic gain.

 

[Jigs]

There isn't much difference between religion and culture. Sometimes religion takes over culture. Even then it's noone elses business to tell someone how to live. If the law says everyone has to wear trousers, i don't see how it's any different. Not everyone may want to wear trousers, but everyone has to. It may lead to violence, that again is a punishment for them to decide. The choice of punishment is not for anyone else to decide, but the Afghans themselves.

The Blasphemy Law is part of Pakistan's Law. So yes, if you're in Pakistan one has to abide by the laws of the land. The thinking that American law and culture is the only one that can make humans happy is just not true.

Let me see if i can understand you. It is not our business to tell these people to not kill/beat women for not wearing beehives and it is not our business to tell them to not behead non muslims or to try to educate their people to at least read something besides the Quran (granted they can read). It is probably none of our business if they happen to have harbored the people that murdered 3,000 civilians and the people of my country aswell. Since you know that is part of their culture as you say. Interesting way of spreading such a culture.



Just like in pakistan we should respect that law that now has a doctor in jail for throwing away a card that had the name Muhammad on it and now have a mob out to kill him.


Forgive me if i have no respect for any of these things and view them as backward and having nothing to do with culture but islamic extremism and if that is part of your culture then all i can say is god help your culture.

 

[Gold1010]

RIP to the soldiers.

 

[roadrunner]

Let me see if i can understand you. It is not our business to tell these people to not kill/beat women for not wearing beehives

If the law there states that women must wear "beehives"/burkhas, then that is the law. If the law in the US states you must wear trousers, then you must wear trousers. It is only a difference in what different cultures consider normal. The punishment is again up to the Afghans. You can pick out hundreds of other countries in the world with equally harsh laws that aren't invaded, Saudi Arabia for one (a good ally of the US). The death penalty in the US for some crimes sounds utterly despicable and barbaric to some. But it's used because that is the law of the land. You might justify it through your social conditioning, others will not agree.

and it is not our business to tell them to not behead non muslims

obviously beheading non muslims would constitute a genocide. That isn't acceptable. If you have proof that the goal of the of any group in Afghanistan is ethnic or religious genocide, then that is grounds for interference.

or to try to educate their people to at least read something besides the Quran (granted they can read). It is probably none of our business if they happen to have harbored the people that murdered 3,000 civilians and the people of my country aswell. Since you know that is part of their culture as you say. Interesting way of spreading such a culture.

Imagine how an Iraqi would feel, or the 100,000 or so that were killed by US troops over faked stories of WMD. You would think they would want to invade the US. Or the wars in Vietnam and Korea where millions of civilians were killed alone.

The Arabs of Al Qaeda were invited into Afghanistan by the Northern Alliance. The Taliban should have handed him over, but didn't due to their tribal codes. Consequence, Afghanistan was invaded, and now the Arabs are not in Afghanistan anymore. So there is no reason for the war.

Just like in pakistan we should respect that law that now has a doctor in jail for throwing away a card that had the name Muhammad on it and now have a mob out to kill him.

Noone suggested you respect the law. But whatever country you visit, I would suggest following the law, and respecting it. If Pakistanis want a blasphemy law, that's up to them. I think a blasphemy law can work, no need for death as a punishment, a year in prison perhaps, if someone brings a false case, they receive the punishment. Better still no blasphemy law at all. But it is Pakistanis who should decide this, not Americans.

Forgive me if i have no respect for any of these things and view them as backward and having nothing to do with culture but islamic extremism and if that is part of your culture then all i can say is god help your culture.

You're being deliberately misleading here. Islamic fundamentalism is a choice. Islamic terrorism (though I don't like the term) is certainly wrong. I presume you mean Islamic terrorism is bad. That is very true. Islamic fundamentalism is just a conservative view of Islam. Though I don't like it, if someone wants to hold that view, or if a whole population wants to hold that view, it is their choice until they see the light of being less fundamental.

 

[Spring Onion]

Cases like this happened in every war by every side. War crimes are part of wars. You think the Pakistani or Turkish army never commited warcrimes ? Your argument holds no face value.

The point here is not of war crimes but of a wrong war infact this is not a war but invasion of Afghanistan. Turkish and Pakistani Army have not invaded any other country rather fighting against terrorists within our own countries.

And if it is a war then why not treat it as a war. in a war there are casualties are on both sides then why cry a river. Its a battle field and as we say in Pashto "pa jang kay mari kegi" war suppose to inflict casualties.


Atleast those from invaders' side when killed can be identified easily due to their uniform and other such things. But those who are killed by bombardment hardly be identified if civilians or anti-coalition fighters

 

[TARIQ BN ZIYAAD]

Obama was not a threat to the world as much when he came to Afghanistan first. But after 9/11 the situation changed and he became notorious around the world. I brought Pakistan into the argument just to know why there is a double standard. Pakistanis like their neighbor to live like savages but they want more freedom and a modern state for themselves. It is clearly not a question of support for muslims. If that's the case why not support northern alliance? It is just politics and playing one against other for strategic gain.

Hello jayron,

Since u could not provide me any source or link of Miss Ridley saying she was forced to islam and while she is living in west where she has the freedom of speech, i would take it she was not forced by taliban to rivert to islam. A lesstion from history after she was recovered from afghanistan. She gave an interview and answering to the question if she became muslim she said i m studying islam and have not revirted yet. After may some months when she announced herself a muslim.

When osama came to pakistan and then to afghanistan ( he was a freedom fight mujahid by west ) and to the soviet unions he was a notorious person. Calling someone terrorist is a ralative term and everybody uses it to suits them. In the mid 80's when i was studying in U.S the western press had full praises for these guys.

As i stated earlier I point finger to anyone who commits a crime or do harm to others.

I can talk about pakistan and wat their ppl wants but this thread is not for that.

One of the allegations about taliban they used to force the ladies burqa yes this is true and we used to say it is their culture and why would say it coz now look whenever u see videos from afghanistan u see women wearing burqa ( who is forcing them now? )

Bottom line is american soldiers have no right to be in afghanistan, there will be no peace in the region untill these invaders messing around there.

TARIQ

 

[graphican]

Good Riddance!

 

[Leviza]

The shalwar kamiz they wear is a civilian dress thats why it become hard to detect them in civilians. And thats the difference between taliban and any army. A regular army wear uniform so that they can be seen as a soldier even among civilians because they don't take cover in civilians. A talib wear civilian dress because hiding in civilian is best he can do......

BTW Im not saying anything bad to anyone... RIP

But dont you thing this logic of amry should fight in uniform also comes from west
a freedom fighter can fight in any cloths i guess...and where was UN and your westerns when they started invading Afghanistan when everyone knows that Afghan people dont have any regular army to defand themselves



just my 2 cents.......

 

[All-Green]

Jigs and Roadrunner,

Very nice to see your posts.

I would say that one of the problems with the world these days is that the developed nations tend to view others in terms of what they deem a truly emancipated and humane society.
However the culture across different countries varies significantly and has to be respected or at least acknowledged as something that cannot be discarded easily in favor of what we perceive as the right set of values and principles.

The Afghans had a lot other problems than some women who did not like Burqas.
Whereas i totally disagree with the approach of forcing women to wear a Burqa, one has to understand that majority of Afghan women wear it whether you force them or not.

However the food shortage, the mine related accidents, the medical aid requirement and many more problems were genuine and common to all Afghans as serious problems.

So if the world thinks that the problem in Afghanistan is women wearing Burqas, then you will never eliminate that problem since to many Afghans it is their custom.
However addressing the problems which the Afghans deem critical will help them recover to a state of normalcy, only that will bring stability.
Tying the assistance efforts to things like liberation of women from Burqa may sound like a grand scheme to make life easier for the women but it will actually jeopardize any attempt to help the Afghans (including the women) since many will perceive this as an affront to their cultural values and will react strongly.

One cannot expect to forge all other societies into their own image, it usually backfires since the set of values and principles pertaining to everyday life and good conduct vary significantly across the globe.
How these values and principles are enforced is something we can argue about, but at the end of the day we have to acknowledge that there are bound to be significant differences across many aspects of social norms and the sensitivities that local customs and laws attach to such norms.
Forcing someone into a Burqa in the name of Islam is stupid to me but then that is something for Afghan people to decide, when many of them do wear it ...it implies that a significant part of Afghan society consider it as a norm!

Interesting to note that many ladies in Turkey (most modern Muslim country) wear the headscarf out of their own choice, the reason for this is not extremism or backwardness but a fact that many Muslims like to wear a dress in accordance with Islamic values, some overdo it (in my opinion) by wearing the Burqa but many do cover their heads and wear a decent dress to cover themselves properly as per instructions of Islam.

When the west tries to portray the freedom of women as the option to do away with covering your head, then to most of Muslims it is a very hollow benchmark.
Providing education to Afghan women is a most critical thing but that goes for Afghan men too.
Now instead of focusing on the Burqa as a medieval thing which many NGOs do, first try to work within the norms of Afghan society and just help provide education, maybe down the line the Afghan thought about this practice changes and maybe it does not, but certainly this change should not be the aim of an education program.
The aim should be to educate the people to help architect a prosperous society and not to bring a massive change in the social customs by forcing western ideas of liberalism on the Afghans (ideas which may be right or wrong in our eyes).
Such an apple maybe considered poisoned by many Afghan families.

If the higher objective is kept in mind, then these matters are better left alone for the locals to decide for themselves, outside intervention and propaganda to force a change may actually reinforce the custom and demonize the ones who want to break away with it.

 

[Ahmad]

REST IN PEACE, to all the civilians and resistance fighter's that these soldier's killed before they got there own medicine.

I cant say more just " HAIL TO AFGHAN RESISTANCE ".

you are supporting terrorism in my country, what if i say Hail to the TTP movement? i probably get banned. Taliban are the same people who mercilelsy killed and are still killing their own people in large numbers. please dont play with our spillt blood.