Taiwan Conducts Live Fire Drills on Spratlys, Angering Vietnam

[mike2000]

Dont get your hope up, at the end of the day China is still at a overwhelming position to keep everything in check in the region, in case of possible conflict between vietnam and taiwan, even if US stand by and see one of their lacky fight another lacky wannabe just like that it is certain that Mainland China wont allow anybody else defeat Taiwan in territorial disputes.

Well though i agree China wont stand by and see its 'province' Taiwan fight Vietnam in case of conflicts over these islands, I doubt Taiwan will ask for help anyway, and even if they did i doubt China will intervene. They might just sit and watch until both have fought each other to exhaustion and if Vietnams comes out on top, then ,Maybe China will intervene just to take over the islands for itself, not 'helping' Taiwan per se(thanks for the correction my firend Götterdämmerung.lol).

Moreover we should note that Chinas so called 9 dashed claim was not created by the CCP, it was indeed created by the current Taiwanese government(KMT)nationalists, and also Taiwan(KMT) still claims even more territory for China than the CCP itself.lol The communist just took over from the KMT, so i Taiwan is to blame for all the crisis in the region in the first place.lol This is something many people tend to forget. That's why i said earlier on another thread that had the KMT won the Chinese civil war and be ruling China instead of the CCP, then i have no doubts that they would have long intervene militarily in the SCS and seized control of all these islands before other countries in Asia had even gained their indepednence/started to make claims in the SCS. A democratic China(under the KMT) close/allied with the U.S will have no problem doing all these/waging war for these islands and even taking the senkakus islands(without much fanfare from our media). Had they won the Chinese civil war then believe me Asia will have looked much more different than it is today. For one Vietnam, Cambodia, Laos and North Korea wont be communist today to begin with, and im not sure Mongolia will even still be independent today.lol Anyway thats history and we cant change history.

 

[mike2000]

That actually sounds like the biggest joke of the decade. Taiwan, with approx 20 million people has nearly a trillion dollar economy. Vietnam with almost 100 million people has an economy approx 1/3rd the size of Taiwan. Yet the Viet navy will surpass Taiwan and you believe Vietnam can outspend Taiwan? Riiiggght.

Bro thats doesnt always holds true. If economy alone determined military superiority then i think Philippines(with a bigger economy than Vietnam for decades now) will be stronger than Vietnam militarily, dont you think? Moreover China with an economy over 5 times bigger than Russia cant be said to be superior to Russia(well not yet) can it?

 

[Huaren]

Well though i agree China wont stand by and see its 'province' Taiwan fight Vietnam in case of conflicts over these islands, I doubt Taiwan will ask for help anyway, and even if they did i doubt China will intervene. They might just sit and watch until both have fought each other to exhaustion and if Vietnams comes out on top, then ,Maybe China will intervene just to take over the islands for itself, not 'helping' Taiwan per se(thanks for the correction my firend Götterdämmerung.lol).

Moreover we should note that Chinas so called 9 dashed claim was not created by the CCP, it was indeed created by the current Taiwanese government(KMT)nationalists, and also Taiwan(KMT) still claims even more territory for China than the CCP itself.lol The communist just took over from the KMT, so i Taiwan is to blame for all the crisis in the region in the first place.lol This is something many people tend to forget. That's why i said earlier on another thread that had the KMT won the Chinese civil war and be ruling China instead of the CCP, then i have no doubts that they would have long intervene militarily in the SCS and seized control of all these islands before other countries in Asia had even gained their indepednence/started to make claims in the SCS. A democratic China(under the KMT) close/allied with the U.S will have no problem doing all these/waging war for these islands and even taking the senkakus islands(without much fanfare from our media). Had they won the Chinese civil war then believe me Asia will have looked much more different than it is today. For one Vietnam, Cambodia, Laos and North Korea wont be communist today to begin with, and im not sure Mongolia will even still be independent today.lol Anyway thats history and we cant change history.

thats empty assumption at best, considering how US kept its pets in check its laughable to even think they would not keep KMT on leash even as conterbalance to USSR (sure China would suffer for that), to begin with a china under nationalists wont even be able to hold itself, much less maintain territorial rights, even if the sea territory in the south are secured all the northern territories along the borders with USSR (and also tibet) would be most difficult at best, and the general public(poor) already lost faith in nationalists by then, even if they win civil war they will just be seeing all "bandits" popping up from everywhere without end.

Also getting help from US is in general a bad idea for any nation who want to have real self determination, even if a major civilization like china doesnt want to be a leader, its surely even less suitable to be a follower. considering how fast reestablished China crashed with USSR by whatever reason, a nationalist China would also either break down (most likely) or crash with US sooner than later. In fact any major civilization which stay as follower of other would be reducing the potential of the human race beside being humiliating in general. Its good that china shake off USSR at the first chance and USSR broke down in the end, it would have been more problematiic with US in that regard.

 

[Viet]

Lol, indeed the Vietcong has some fetish with the Chinese although the China themselves don't bother and give your country a shit

you don´t get it. we are not obsessed of China, we despise them, only care of when they will come again as dirty invader.
along vietnam-china border, we built flag towers overlooking chinese territory to monitor and alert our troops when they come

 

[pigtaker]

you don´t get it. we are not obsessed of China, we despise them, only care of when they will come again as dirty invader.
along vietnam-china border, we built flag towers overlooking chinese territory to monitor and alert our troops when they come
View attachment 145858

flag towers? are your veits living in middle-ages? I bet you are. Go to your learn some advanced civilization from your indian brothers about how to eat by hands with your pho and begin to worship hindu gods of 33 millions.

 

[Viet]

Bro thats doesnt always holds true. If economy alone determined military superiority then i think Philippines(with a bigger economy than Vietnam for decades now) will be stronger than Vietnam militarily, dont you think? Moreover China with an economy over 5 times bigger than Russia cant be said to be superior to Russia(well not yet) can it?

exactly, if china had not intervened again and again, we had united whole southeast asia under vietnamese banner long time ago. AND if vietnam had the power and size of china, we had subjugated japan and korea as well.

we know how to utilize the power to its maximum

flag towers? are your veits living in middle-ages? I bet you are. Go to your learn some advanced civilization from your indian brothers about how to eat by hands with your pho and begin to worship hindu gods of 33 millions.

the towers are built since centuries when we rode on horse back and had swords. today we have radars, of course

 

[mike2000]

exactly, if china had not intervened again and again, we had united whole southeast asia under vietnamese banner long time ago. AND if vietnam had the power and size of china, we had subjugated japan and korea as well.

we know how to utilize the power to its maximum


the towers are built since centuries when we rode on horse back and had swords. today we have radars, of course

ahahahahah....funny, but kind of true indeed. The Chinese are kind of Passive compared to Vietnam.
If not for China, Vietnam would have indeed have conquered south east Asia/mekong region under its rule.

 

[AgentOrange]

Bro thats doesnt always holds true. If economy alone determined military superiority then i think Philippines(with a bigger economy than Vietnam for decades now) will be stronger than Vietnam militarily, dont you think? Moreover China with an economy over 5 times bigger than Russia cant be said to be superior to Russia(well not yet) can it?

IMO, Taiwan's defense spending or lack of it is a tacit admission that militarily it has no chance of stopping China should the two sides come to blows. In other words, it's a conscious decision in light of a growing and soon-to-be overwhelming disparity in the balance of power in favor of the mainland.

If Vietnam, whom Taiwan could definitely beat if it came down to it, started agitating and annoying Taiwan, I could see Taiwan doing more to arm itself. Vietnam, already economically shaky at best, is sacrificing future economic growth and prosperity for its people by buying expensive weapons it can barely afford. (Apparently, the Vietnamese race are content to live in Sub-Saharan African conditions in perpetuity but that's another matter.) Taiwan on the other hand, has the money but doesn't have a reason to use it - yet. If Taiwan were to spend more on its armed forces, it will hardly alter the cross-strait equation but it will certainly upset Vietnam's little wannabe "SE Asia Hegemon" plans.

With regards to the China/Russia comparison, you answer your own question. China now has the world's 2nd largest military budget and will soon eclipse Russia militarily precisely because of China's economic strength. As I mentioned before, if Vietnam posed a serious enough threat to Taiwan, who has an economy 3 times the size of Vietnam, who would ultimately win an arms race?

 

[bolo]

where the money comes from?
well, the economy generates more than 4% current account surplus this year.

Vietnam debt is 60% of gdp l

 

[AgentOrange]

you don´t get it. we are not obsessed of China, we despise them, only care of when they will come again as dirty invader.
along vietnam-china border, we built flag towers overlooking chinese territory to monitor and alert our troops when they come
View attachment 145858

You people are definitely obsessed with China. Just look at the number of China-centric threads started by your communist cell leader BoQ77. Or look at the number of times he jumps into a thread that has nothing to do with Vietnam, only to bring up how "bad" China is towards Vietnam. You people are too obsessed with things outside of your control. It's not healthy for you.

By the way, that's an impressive flag tower. I believe that was 3rd Century Chinese technology if I'm not mistaken. It warms my heart to see Vietnam finally master something that was commonplace in China during the time of Qin Shi Huang.

 

[Nike]

ahahahahah....funny, but kind of true indeed. The Chinese are kind of Passive compared to Vietnam.
If not for China, Vietnam would have indeed have conquered south east Asia/mekong region under its rule.

is just a dream from some Vietnamese Chauvinist

 

[mike2000]

IMO, Taiwan's defense spending or lack of it is a tacit admission that militarily it has no chance of stopping China should the two sides come to blows. In other words, it's a conscious decision in light of a growing and soon-to-be overwhelming disparity in the balance of power in favor of the mainland.

If Vietnam, whom Taiwan could definitely beat if it came down to it, started agitating and annoying Taiwan, I could see Taiwan doing more to arm itself. Vietnam, already economically shaky at best, is sacrificing future economic growth and prosperity for its people by buying expensive weapons it can barely afford. (Apparently, the Vietnamese race are content to live in Sub-Saharan African conditions in perpetuity but that's another matter.) Taiwan on the other hand, has the money but doesn't have a reason to use it - yet. If Taiwan were to spend more on its armed forces, it will hardly alter the cross-strait equation but it will certainly upset Vietnam's little wannabe "SE Asia Hegemon" plans.

With regards to the China/Russia comparison, you answer your own question. China now has the world's 2nd largest military budget and will soon eclipse Russia militarily precisely because of China's economic strength. As I mentioned before, if Vietnam posed a serious enough threat to Taiwan, who has an economy 3 times the size of Vietnam, who would ultimately win an arms race?

Yes it might be the case in a decade or two from now, But then again China hasnt eclipse Russia yet, despite having a bigger economy than Russia for a long while now. So thats why i said economy alone doesnt deterrmine military superiority.
You also have to know that despite China being over 5 times bigger than Russia economically, Russia still spends alot on its military(though i think its unsutainable for them in the long run, since they spend over 20 percent of government spending on their military) compared to china, in fact Russia spends over twice as much % wise to its GDP than China i.e 2.0% for China to 4.2% for Russia, and even more i percentage terms than the U.S(3.8%of GDP), which translates into over $78billion compared to just over $120billion for China(i.e less than twice russias despite an economy over 5 times bigger.lol). Considering China's size/population, the difference isnt that much at all.
So thats why i said it all depends on sevral factors, not just economy. For example Philippines despite having a bigger economy than Vietnam spends far less on its military than Vietnam. SO there you go.

 

[bolo]

Yes it might be the case in a decade or two from now, But then again China hasnt eclipse Russia yet, despite having a bigger economy than Russia for a long while now. So thats why i said economy alone doesnt deterrmine military superiority.
You also have to know that despite China being over 5 times bigger than Russia economically, Russia still spends alot on its military(though i think its unsutainable for them in the long run, since they spend over 20 percent of government spending on their military) compared to china, in fact Russia spends over twice as much % wise to its GDP than China i.e 2.0% for China to 4.2% for Russia, and even more i percentage terms than the U.S(3.8%of GDP), which translates into over $78billion compared to just over $120billion for China(i.e less than twice russias despite an economy over 5 times bigger.lol). Considering China's size/population, the difference isnt that much at all.
So thats why i said it all depends on sevral factors, not just economy. For example Philippines despite having a bigger economy than Vietnam spends far less on its military than Vietnam. SO there you go.

it's because China doesn't spend 17% gdp on its military like Russia used to do.

 

[jkroo]

Lol and many in China care more about Indonesia than vietnam, myself for example am quite disappointed that indonesia didnt join up in the AIIB this time instead of vietnam, the only care I have for vietnam is the sick obsession of viets about China which could be entertaining at times.

Indonesia is now on the top 10 economy entities' list, so we should care more about Indonesia.

 

[mike2000]

it's because China doesn't spend 17% gdp on its military like Russia used to do.

It doesnt matter, nobody told you not to spend more on your military.lool
I was just pointing out that a bigger economy alone doesn't necesarilly means a more powerful/advanced/superior military. So Vietnam can still defeat Taiwan who knows.

is just a dream from some Vietnamese Chauvinist

Well its a dream only because China kept bugging Vietnam and stopped the dream from becoming reality.
If not Vietnam would have even taken/invaded not just Laos and Cambodia but also large parts of Thailand during the late 70s to 80s in the war in Indo china.