Taiwan Conducts Live Fire Drills on Spratlys, Angering Vietnam

[dichoi]

Vietnam has NEVER had a presence on Taiping Island.

Nope.

Vietnamese WERE there from time of Nguyen warlords. Itu Aba is biggest Island in Spratly.

 

[TheTruth]

Nope.

Vietnamese WERE there from time of Nguyen warlords. Itu Aba is biggest Island in Spratly.

Where's your proof? There was no evidence of Vietnamese habitation.

 

[dichoi]

Where's your proof? There was no evidence of Vietnamese habitation.

Vietnamese name of Itu Aba is Ba Binh, it is referred to the our old history book "Việt sử cương giám khảo lược". It stated that the Island has the water stream for our fishermen and small temple. It does mean that Vietnamese were first have been there and controlled it , and also made a report for the Nguyen Kingdom.

The temple was destroyed by Japanese when Japanese navy invaded in to Island 1938.


tài liệu cổ như sách "Việt sử cương giám khảo lược":
Ở trong có vụng sâu, thuyền có thể đậu được. Trên bãi có nước ngọt. Chim biển có nhiều giống không biết tên. Có một cái miếu cổ, lợp ngói, biển ngạch khắc mấy chữ "Vạn lí ba bình",

—Nguyễn Thông, Việt sử cương giám khảo lược, quyển 4, 1877

 

[SamDNguyen]

Taiping (太平) Island is known as Ba Binh (波平) island in Vietnam. Read below.

Đại Nam nhất thống chí (Hán-Nôm: 大南ー統志; English: The Geography of the Unified Đại Nam), the geography book completed in 1882 by Quốc sử quán (Hán-Nôm: 國史館; English: The National History Institute) of the Nguyễn Dynasty (1802–1845), indicates that the Paracel Islands are part of Viet Nam’s territory and was under the administration of the Province of Quảng Ngãi.

Scanned image of a page in Đại Nam nhất thống chí (大南ー統志)


In the paragraphs describing the topography of Quảng Ngãi Province, Đại Nam nhất thống chí reads:

“In the east of Quảng Ngãi Province is Hoàng Sa Island, in which sands and waters are alternate, forming trenches. In the west is the area of mountainous people with the steady and long rampart. The south borders the Provinceof Bình Định, separated by the Bến Đá mountain pass. The north borders the Province of QuảngNam, marked by the Sa Thổ Creek (ghềnh) …”

“The previous custom of maintaining Hoàng Sa Flotilla was continued in the early days of the Gia LongEra but later abandoned. At the beginning of the Minh Mạng Era, working boats were sent to the area for sea route survey. They found an area with verdant plants over white sands and a circumference of 1,070 trượng. In the middle of Hoàng Sa Island is a well. In the southwest lies an ancient temple with no clear indication of the construction time. Inside the temple is a stele engraved with four characters “Vạn Lý Ba Bình” (Hán-Nôm: 萬里波平; English: calm sea for a thousand dặm). This island had previously been called “Phật Tự Sơn” (Hán-Nôm: 佛寺山; English: The Mountain of Buddha’sTemple). In the east and the west of the island is an atoll named Bàn Than Thạch (Hán-Nôm: 珊瑚石;English: coral reef). It emerges over the water level as an isle with a circumference of 340 trượng and a height of 1.2 trượng (same elevation as that of Hoàng Sa Island). In the 16thyear of the Minh Mạng Era, working boats were ordered to transport bricks and stones to the area to build temple. In the left side of the temple, a stone stele was erected as a remark, and trees are planted all over three sides, namely the left, the right, and the back, of the temple. While building the temple’s foundation, the military labourers found as much as 2,000 catties of copper leaves and cast iron.”

 

[TheTruth]

Interesting. There's no way of telling if that reliably that indicates the island in question however.

 

[jkroo]

Interesting. There's no way of telling if that reliably that indicates the island in question however.

If you read the words carefully, then you will see this guy slapped his face with what he has posted.

 

[SamDNguyen]

Đại Nam nhất thống toàn đồ - 1838
大南ー統全圖

 

[Aepsilons]

Nope.

Vietnamese WERE there from time of Nguyen warlords. Itu Aba is biggest Island in Spratly.

During those times, it was probably a fishing grounds, right? Where there ever permanent structures built by the Annamese ? Or the Khmers? or Champans? Chenlans?

 

[Aepsilons]

The temple was destroyed by Japanese when Japanese navy invaded in to Island 1938.

Are you sure of this? There was little to no activity by the IJN near the waters of Indochina prior to 1940 before Operation Ten Goh. To my understanding, hostilities between the French Indochina and the Japanese Empire were initiated in 1940 when the Imperial Japanese Army's 5th Division under Lt. General Nishimura spearheaded the invasion at Lan Song. Eventually, the Imperial Japanese Army mounted a full blown invasion of Indochina with 140,000 soldiers. The Imperial Navy didn't really commit naval forces because what little the French Indochinese Government had were wiped out by IJN's destroyer squadrons. I've never heard or read any reports of IJN destroying any temples there.

Perhaps you can clarify with me. I'd love to know more.

 

[Carlosa]

Yes i agree with you though, she shouldnt have indulged in such insults in the first place. But then again you indulging in the same sort of insults doesnt make you right/correct either. If you dont show people how to behave properly/act by example, then you are not much better than them. It negates anything else you say, and brings you to their own level.

You will notice that despite all my comments on here being fairly honest/unbiased and respectful/polite, some members here still make inappropriate comments/indulge in personal insults towards me, But you will never see me get back at them with same kind of insults/personal attacks. I just make my point and thats it. They can carry on with their insults if they like, i dont have time to waste my time coming in a discussion forum to be insulting people i dont even know personally or met in my life. I come here to learn and exchange ideas/point of views with others. Not to indulge in personal attacks. We are all adults and i believe we should act like one. Moreover we dont have much influence over our governments, no amtter how much we insult the other nation/person/rival, it doesnt change our situation nor our country policies, so why not just be respectful towards each other while we agree to disagree on some? Make peace not war bro.



By the way is that really you in the pic Madofafc??

I totally agree with you mate, and at the same time, different people will react in different ways; rather than insulting back and get into a back and forth tirade like many people here do, I responded with a funny comment (as you also said) meant to remind her that her choice of words was totally out of place and by the way, you might not be aware of this, calling Vietnamese people "gooks" (which she did repeatedly) is considered quite strong by Vietnamese people. By the way, why don't you lecture her for a change?

 

[Aepsilons]

The temple was destroyed by Japanese when Japanese navy invaded in to Island 1938.

The Imperial Navy only came into the Indochinese Theater by 1940-1941; after Indochina was conquered in 2 weeks time. When Thailand collapsed , and when IJA took British Malaya, it was at the siege of Singapore that the IJN came into the equation. During the Battle of Singapore, the Imperial Guards Division under command of Lt. General Nishimura , supported by the Elite Imperial Guards Division, and by the 18th Division under command of General Mutaguchi, the landing was aided by the Imperial Navy. The Imperial Navy, supported by several battleships, several heavy cruisers and destroyers pulverized the defenses of Singapore into submission.

But notice that the Imperial Navy had not been sent en masse to the region until Malaya collapsed. It was only when Singapore was being seiged that the Imperial Navy was dispatched in earnest. Why? Because after it Singapore collapsed, the Imperial Navy then set its course on Dutch Indies, where it annihilated the Dutch Navy, and what little was left of the British flotilla in the Orient.

It would not have made sense to send the Imperial Navy en masse to Indochina prior to 1940. This would have alerted the British and the Dutch.

 

[BoQ77]

The Imperial Japanese Navy Page | Nihon Kaigun

1887:
Paracels. As a result of the Sino-French conflict in 1884-1885, France makes Annam a protectorate and later a colony of French Indochina. The French build a light house on the Paracel (Xisha) Islands which consist of thirty or so, mostly uninhabitated, islets and reefs.

Detail of the Paracel Islands showing Wood and Robert Islands


1909-1910:
Paracels. China lands troops in the Paracels and annexes many of the islands under Guangdong Province. Thereafter, each year China sends a ship to the Paracels.

1920s:
Paracels. Mitsui Bussan Kaisha mines phosphates from Ile Boisee (Wood Island/Phu Lam) and Ile Roberts (Robert Island/Cam Tuyen).

21 December 1933:
Spratlys. On behalf of the French colony of Cochinchina, France claims the Spratly (Truong Sa) Islands and incorporates them into Cochinchina The Spratleys are a group of more than 750 reefs, atolls and islands that cover some 65,637 square miles of ocean with a total land area of about four square miles. The French occupy a number of the Spratlys, including the largest Itu Aba (Thai Binh/Taiping) Island. Later, the IJN constructs weather stations on two islands. France also claims the Paracel Islands.

Some of the Spratlys


October 1936:
Paracels. French and British Admiralties are concerned that Japan may occupy China's Hainan Island and challenge the security of French Indochina, the British Crown Colony of Hong Kong and the Western Powers' naval hegemony in the South China Sea. France is also concerned that Japan may establish a military presence in the Paracels.

February 1937:
Paracels. An unidentified French warship visits the Paracels and reports the islands could serve as a point for Japanese southward expansion. The proximity of the Paracels to the coast of French Indochina would make a Japanese presence intolerable.

April 1937:
Paracels. Britain urges France to occupy the Paracels with French Indochinese. Britain sends survey ship HMS HERALD (ex-minesweeper MERRY HAMPTON, later IJN HEIYO) to look for a suitable place to construct an airfield.

(HMS HERALD, later IJN HEIYO)

2 July 1937:
Spratlys. The British Air Ministry reports a Japanese presence on Spratly and Itu Aba, the two largest islands in the Spratlys claimed by French Indochina. Thereafter, the Admiralty and Air Ministry develop a proposal to ask the French to lease either Itu Aba or Thitu so that the British may construct an airfield. They are the only suitable islands, since during the Monsoon season all the others are under water. September 1937:
Pratas Island. NE South China Sea. The IJN occupies China's Pratas (Dongsha) Island located 211 miles SE of Hong Kong and 528 miles SW west of Taipei, Formosa. The coral island is made up of atolls and reef flats. The IJN later uses Pratas as a weather station and listening outpost.

Pratas Island


1938:
Spratlys. Hydrographic survey vessel (ex-minelayer) IJN KATSURIKI surveys the Spratly Islands, probably to determine their potential naval value.

IJN KATSURIKI


3 July 1938:
Paracels. French military units, composed of Vietnamese soldiers (Garde Indochinoise), occupy the Paracels. France annexes the islands as part of French Indochina, despite Nationalist Chinese protests. Japan lodges a diplomatic protest with France against the occupation.

30 March 1939:
Spratlys. Japan occupies, annexes and renames the Spratly Islands "Shinnan Shoto "(New Southern Islands) and places them under the Governor-General of Formosa. Later, the IJN establishes a seaplane base and a submarine base at Itu Aba (Nagashima -"Long Island") the largest of the Spratly Islands.

Authors' Notes:
[1] Since the 18th century, and probably earlier, the Empire of Annam (later Vietnam) claimed the Paracel (Hoang Sa) Islands. Territorial disputes by China, Taiwan and Vietnam to the area exist to this day.

On 29 May '45, USS BLUEGILL (SS-242) landed Australian commandos and American naval personnel on Pratas Island. They destroyed a radio tower, weather station, fuel, ammo dump and several buildings, but no lives were lost as the island's occupants had fled days before. The American flag was raised, the island renamed Bluegill Island and declared United States territory. Later, Pratas Island was returned to the Nationalist Republic of China's Guangdong Province.

 

[Reashot Xigwin]

Vietnam will build modern day alert tower with ability to light smoke quickly to alert other towers of danger. satellite, who need them?

LOL LOTR reference much.

Back on topic who the hell the Amnesiac Viet is kidding? If Taiwan & Vietnam clash over the islands the Taiwanese (its not a question of if, but its a question of will) will "rape" Vietnam over & over again.

Even if Taiwan are currently undergoing a military malaise & here's a good video to watch about Taiwan current military dilemma:
Ditching the draft - 101 East - Al Jazeera English

 

[Nike]

I totally agree with you mate, and at the same time, different people will react in different ways; rather than insulting back and get into a back and forth tirade like many people here do, I responded with a funny comment (as you also said) meant to remind her that her choice of words was totally out of place and by the way, you might not be aware of this, calling Vietnamese people "gooks" (which she did repeatedly) is considered quite strong by Vietnamese people. By the way, why don't you lecture her for a change?

the gooks repeatedly using the words of Indon in the first place, and that's quite provocative for any Indonesian member here

 

[Aepsilons]

30 March 1939:
Spratlys. Japan occupies, annexes and renames the Spratly Islands "Shinnan Shoto "(New Southern Islands) and places them under the Governor-General of Formosa. Later, the IJN establishes a seaplane base and a submarine base at Itu Aba (Nagashima -"Long Island") the largest of the Spratly Islands.

Thanks. So I see that the historical claim of ROC's (later, PRC) over the Spratly's , and actual occupation goes back to Japan's seizure of Itu Aba , and its administration via the Formosa Colonial Government.

Appreciate the clarification.

Paracels. As a result of the Sino-French conflict in 1884-1885, France makes Annam a protectorate and later a colony of French Indochina. The French build a light house on the Paracel (Xisha) Islands which consist of thirty or so, mostly uninhabitated, islets and reefs. Detail of the Paracel Islands showing Wood and Robert Islands

Do you have any other information regarding actual Vietnamese occupation of these islands prior to the 19th century? I'd appreciate some other source. Thanks.