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SUPARCO is sleeping! Can someone wake it up?

Work supporting ISRO.
O Really..would you like to elaborate on supporting work....marketing and sale maybe? Nevertheless then it is your failure to recognise that @SOHEIL has been trolling and instead of discussing the topic of the thread he is wasting time on discussing about the apparent similarities between Pakistani and Chinese missiles...Does it make any sense? and how does one get qualified by trolling..can you please elaborate? Sir.
 
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Work supporting ISRO.



There were a number handed over. This is public news.

And...its being taken apart?...you mean the kvd1's that failed to take off and caused multiple crashes of the gslv? The cryogenic engines India tests has nothing to do with the couple they imported from Russia and which blasted itself.

The ce20 is a wholly indigenous one.
 
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O Really..would like to elaborate on supporting work....marketing and sale? Nevertheless then it is your failure to recognise that @SOHEIL has been trolling instead of discussing the topic of the thread he is wasting time on discussing about the similarities between Pakistani and Chinese missiles...Does it make sense and how does one get qualified by trolling..can you please elaborate.

No, it wasn't marketing or sales.

I don't think @SOHEIL has been trolling; he has been putting things rather brutally, all of which could have been done with less abrasive packaging. And as for the relevance to the topic, it is this: if people want to launch objects into space, and if they don't have launchers or prototypes and the German scientists who built them in the first place, it is perfectly all right to borrow from somebody else and work furiously on figuring out how they work, on adapting them and on building their own variations, gradually evolving into indigenous stuff. That's what the Chinese did. They borrowed, they studied, they fooled around and they built more and more of their own thinking into each successive variation.

@SOHEIL 's contribution is in pointing out that stopping at the first stage, and doing nothing further to evolve is not going to cut it. He hasn't even gone into payload and content, or into control systems, or into infrastructure; if the launch vehicle issue is not addressed, no point going into those others.

And...its being taken apart?...you mean the kvd1's that failed to take off and caused multiple crashes of the gslv? The cryogenic engines India tests has nothing to do with the couple they imported from Russia and which blasted itself.

The ce20 is a wholly indigenous one.

Those were modelled on the Russian imports, from published accounts. They were heavily modified but wholly indigenous is difficult to swallow. There wasn't an iota of cryogenic technology floating around; where did it suddenly come in?
 
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@SOHEIL yar technology can come from anywhere.. we in India did not develop all these inhouse, many of these are reverse engineered.. some are direct tech transfer from russia..
what we are discussing is, why pakistan is not in space tech.. in my opinion its a incorrect question because it assumes everybody is in space tech and pakistan is losing out.. that is not the case, as very few countries make own satellites and fewer still have launch tech... its a matter of priority and I would yield to the intellect of pakistani leaders who make the decision about priorities of pakistan.

Bro >>>

There's nothing wrong with technical cooperation ! As we have with NK ...

I don't mean anything bad :unsure:

French origin of PSLV's 2nd stage is an example :D

@amardeep mishra
 
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No, it wasn't marketing or sales.

I don't think @SOHEIL has been trolling; he has been putting things rather brutally, all of which could have been done with less abrasive packaging. And as for the relevance to the topic, it is this: if people want to launch objects into space, and if they don't have launchers or prototypes and the German scientists who built them in the first place, it is perfectly all right to borrow from somebody else and work furiously on figuring out how they work, on adapting them and on building their own variations, gradually evolving into indigenous stuff. That's what the Chinese did. They borrowed, they studied, they fooled around and they built more and more of their own thinking into each successive variation.

@SOHEIL 's contribution is in pointing out that stopping at the first stage, and doing nothing further to evolve is not going to cut it. He hasn't even gone into payload and content, or into control systems, or into infrastructure; if the launch vehicle issue is not addressed, no point going into those others.



Those were modelled on the Russian imports, from published accounts. They were heavily modified but wholly indigenous is difficult to swallow. There wasn't an iota of cryogenic technology floating around; where did it suddenly come in?
Okay good. Perhaps I was viewing it in a different way. However, my assertion is that the design of rockets, missiles, SLVs is determined mainly by aerodynamic considerations and that is why they share similar design whether its Russian R-56 or American Titan IV or Chinese LongMarch rockets, they share the same DNA. But that does not mean they are copies of each other.

As far as SUPARCO is considered, it has the capability but lacks the committment and thus finances to establish launch facility and complete the work on SLV. Shaheen-III missile can easily be used with certain modifications for launching satellites in LEO while the under devellopment Taimur system can be used as a GSLV. SUPARCO has designed satellites but those were launched using Russian and Chinese SLVs.
 
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I thought gaznavi was the north korean dongfeng.

north korean dongfeng :o:

Which one? Where?

India's GSLV cryogenic upper stage (CUSP) and its relationships

Russian former cryogenic upper stage concepts

KVRB_1.jpg

KVRB concept with KVD-1 engine

KVD-1__steering.jpg
KVD-1_steering.jpg

Small KVD-1 steering engine

upload_2016-6-27_3-44-58.png


Russian cryogenic upper stage 12KRB for India's GSLV

12KRB_3.jpg




12KRB_1.jpg

KVD-1 engine


12KRB_2.jpg
12KRB_5.jpg


 
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The problems of suparco are those of most sarkari idaras. Over staffing, no urgency to do anything, little incentive for employees to do well because you can't be fired easily, under qualified faujis being bosses of over qualified civilians.

Those faujis make quite handsome chunk most qualified guys in that field as major chunk of those are retired PAF Aeronautical Engineers who have both experience and qualifications. From Army side majority of them are from signals who again have both experience and qualifications with majority of them having got higher qualifications from abroad. I can name all those faujis both in IST and SUPARCO with their qualifications. If NESCOM, KRL, AWC etc can do well then why not likes of SUPARCO? The former organisations also have mix of Faujis and Civilians. SUPARCO had been neglected because of lack of funds and it was the same very Fauji named Gen Musharraf who during his tenure gave attention to this organisation and awakened it to some extent. Also Faujis started heading SUPARCO from 2010 onwards. So stop blaming Faujis for all ill doings as the norm is nowadays.
 
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And...its being taken apart?...you mean the kvd1's that failed to take off and caused multiple crashes of the gslv? The cryogenic engines India tests has nothing to do with the couple they imported from Russia and which blasted itself.

The ce20 is a wholly indigenous one.

Bro ... CE-20 developed for GSLV MK-III !

we are talking about :

Indigenous cryogenic upper stage CUSP for GSLV

CUSP_2.jpg
CUSP_1.jpg



CUSP_3.jpg







Engine CUS (without nozzle)



CUS engine
 
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Those faujis make quite handsome chunk most qualified guys in that field as major chunk of those are retired PAF Aeronautical Engineers who have both experience and qualifications. From Army side majority of them are from signals who again have both experience and qualifications with majority of them having got higher qualifications from abroad. I can name all those faujis both in IST and SUPARCO with their qualifications. If NESCOM, KRL, AWC etc can do well then why not likes of SUPARCO? The former organisations also have mix of Faujis and Civilians. SUPARCO had been neglected because of lack of funds and it was the same very Fauji named Gen Musharraf who during his tenure gave attention to this organisation and awakened it to some extent. Also Faujis started heading SUPARCO from 2010 onwards. So stop blaming Faujis for all ill doings as the norm is nowadays.
I don't have a problem with Faujis. My father is a fauji my Chacha is a PAF aeronautical engineer and Maj Gen Raza exchairman SUPARCO is my mother's cousin. Many of my teachers at IST are Fauji.

You need to read what I wrote once again:
under qualified faujis being bosses of over qualified civilians.

The point is the head just HAS to be a fauji and there goes your merit. The head should be someone who is a talented engineer. I have seen so many instances (and I am seeing right now too) where a fauji is put incharge who although is an engineer but has numerous subordinates who are much more qualified and much more talented to lead the organizations.

You want to name all the Faujis at IST please go ahead. And then I'll list all the nonfaujis at IST. Let's not argue about my alma matter with me. I have had the honour of studying from teachers from all backgrounds. There are excellent teachers that are faujis and that are civilians. There are excellent fauji and nonfauji engineers. That problem is the head shouldn't be the head because he is an engineer and a fauji. He should be the head purely because he is a great manager and an excellent engineer. Period.
 
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I don't have a problem with Faujis. My father is a fauji my Chacha is a PAF aeronautical engineer and Maj Gen Raza exchairman SUPARCO is my mother's cousin. Many of my teachers at IST are Fauji.

You need to read what I wrote once again:
under qualified faujis being bosses of over qualified civilians.

The point is the head just HAS to be a fauji and there goes your merit. The head should be someone who is a talented engineer. I have seen so many instances (and I am seeing right now too) where a fauji is put incharge who although is an engineer but has numerous subordinates who are much more qualified and much more talented to lead the organizations.

You want to name all the Faujis at IST please go ahead. And then I'll list all the nonfaujis at IST. Let's not argue about my alma matter with me. I have had the honour of studying from teachers from all backgrounds. There are excellent teachers that are faujis and that are civilians. There are excellent fauji and nonfauji engineers. That problem is the head shouldn't be the head because he is an engineer and a fauji. He should be the head purely because he is a great manager and an excellent engineer. Period.

In recent history only 2 Fauji heads have been appointed and that too since 2010. Back in 60s only 2 PAF guys came in but with excellent reputation who did pull the job quite well at that time. So what about all those years back? And is it necessary that in organisations the most qualified guy should be the Boss? Was AQ Khan the most qualified guy back then? Is Mr Burney the most qualified guy in NESCOM? Like U said that he/she should be a great manager with having good know how of the field. And m sure that guys out there exactly know whom should they appoint at which post. PD.
 
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In recent history only 2 Fauji heads have been appointed and that too since 2010. Back in 60s only 2 PAF guys came in but with excellent reputation who did pull the job quite well at that time. So what about all those years back? And is it necessary that in organisations the most qualified guy should be the Boss? Was AQ Khan the most qualified guy back then? Is Mr Burney the most qualified guy in NESCOM? Like U said that he/she should be a great manager with having good know how of the field. And m sure that guys out there exactly know whom should they appoint at which post. PD.
The current chairman SUPARCO is about to dissolve the charter of IST. That should tell you something my friend. I won't say any more. Engineers should be promoted from WITHIN the organizations. Not installed from EME or what not.
 
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@SOHEIL

vikas is based off viking engine.However the current vikas engine that we use now are heavily modified from the original viking. FOR instance GSLV MK3 uses vikas in "clustered" configuration as an interim measure till semi cryogenic engine replaces it from main stage. I'm a control engineer pursuing my research in aerospace and have attended a lot of seminars. ISRO will actually replace the vikas engines very soon

I hope you stay home & contribute
 
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