Suggested duties for Indian members of this forum

[Joe Shearer]

Hi, I hadn't been paying attention. Can you please link me to the post listing the CoC ?

Sure thing, buddy. Here you go:
__________________________________________________________________________________________
This is a voluntary code of conduct that participating Indian members have agreed to abide by. Indian members of PDF are not required to follow it as a rule; only those who find it relevant and progressive, and pertinent to our participation in a forum managed by citizens of another country, may do so.

There are no penalties; there are no strictures or admonitions. This code is an aspirational code, and is for those who wish to participate in a wholesome manner, devoid of hostile exchanges, without trolling other posts or thread, and without attacks on the personal attributes of other members.

The code has articles that are recommended. It has additional articles that are suggested. It will be circulated for comments, and for endorsement; once ten members have endorsed it, we who have endorsed it will seek to follow it.

1. We will not abuse another member’s religion.
2. We will not use unprintable language, referring to somebody’s post, to the person making the post, to the person’s views.
3. We will not use abusive common labels for other Indian members such as
   1. Sanghi
   2. Bhakt
   3. Sickular
   4. Libtard
   5. Jihadi (for Muslims)
4. We will not abuse women, the LGBT community or the mentally and physically handicapped.
5. We will refrain from hostile remarks about people from different regions of India or from other countries.
6. We will not quote from any publication or from electronic media without citing the source. We will give preference to published books, peer-reviewed articles or research papers from reputable think-tanks when originating a thread
7. We will not question a member’s nationality without reasonable cause and without evidence greater than our personal suspicion.

In addition, it is suggested that members following the code avoid the following patterns of behaviour.

1. We will not celebrate the death of another human being, even those who are killed by Indian security forces in the course of violent armed protests against the Indian state;
   1. It may be less abrasive to note the incident without adjectives or coloration of any kind.
2. We will not celebrate any apparent success in war or armed conflict by India over any other, until the matter is concluded.
   1. On conclusion, we will try to use facts published by reliable print or electronic media.
   2. We will list unreliable sources from any reasonable point of view, and members will be requested not to cite these unreliable sources.
   3. We will respond to contrary claims by a simple statement of fact, and by mentioning that the matter is still in dispute.
3. We will not report assumed superiority of Indian forces over others without evidence.
   1. The stronger the statement claiming superiority, the stronger ought to be the evidence and its sources.
4. We will not respond to provocation by another member, Indian or other.
   1. The provocation will be reported to the Moderators using the report button immediately.
   2. In case of grave provocation, a common effort will be made to bring it to the immediate notice of the Moderators.
5. We will not enter into arguments about the wars and armed conflicts between India and any other country without sufficient information on the subject, and will ask other Indian members for factual support wherever necessary.

The initial set of members to agree to subscribe to this code voluntarily will elect a three-person group to remind subscribing members about violations of the recommendations, or violations of the suggestions. The member concerned may decide how to react to these reminders.


Subscription to the code is open to all known Indian members.

Amended and updated on the 15th July at 20:00 HRS.

 

[Verve]

What is "equality"? True equality does not exist in the real world, why should it here? Anyways, the CoC for Indian team members is FIXED. I'm seriously fed up that it's taken 50 pages or so of this damned thread and still everyone's taking it as a joke.

All the 14 who signed and endorsed it better start following it, or they can vote to tear this document apart and return to the law of the jungle. The trolls can merrily abuse each other just like it used to be. If we can't have 10-14 decent people willing to stick to a code of conduct, then what's the point of participating in this forum? I guess it's the Indian, or rather the South Asian way of doing things.

Any Pakistani, or other non-Indian members wanting to be part of the CoC are now more than welcome. That's the only "equality" I would happily accept. Go ahead and sign and endorse the code, and Joe Babu will edit your name.

At least I can speak for myself. I'm not moving an inch in this forum, and contributing another post till civilized people are in charge of threads pertaining to India. I don't care about anyone's nationality. I had thought that I could discuss the burning issues pertaining to India with like-minded people. But I just hate this ridiculous Indian (or "South Asian") way of doing things. You don't think it' serious enough: good luck finding another forum infested with Indians where there is any civilized order.

You may just be exposing yourself on this, badly I must add. Supremacy Virus that almost all Indians on here are infected by is revealing as usual

'All people are equal' - but you Indians will NEVER sign up to such CoC!

Without this, whatever CoC you end up with is DEAD!

 

[jamahir]

We will not use abusive common labels for other Indian members such as

1. Sanghi
2. Bhakt
3. Sickular
4. Libtard
5. Jihadi (for Muslim Indians)

Sorry for the delay in reply. A long power cut.

Clarification needed for #1, #2, #5. Can external sources that carry those views be phrased as "Right-wingers" ( from any religious community ) because that phrase to me is not abusive ?

 

[Joe Shearer]

lol - ended up 8 nil so second half recovery for them.

Unbelievable.

IIM Ahmedabad came over for the annual inter-IIM meet in 72 (there were only the two of us in those dim, faraway days); nobody had told them about the mosquitoes in our hostels, so the next morning, after they had had our stomach-influencing breakfast, the football match was a foregone conclusion.

They got their revenge in '73; a bastard (who nearly became a founder of a prominent bank much in the news today for all the wrong reasons) slipped me a roach instead of a straight ciggy five minutes before the trivia quiz began. I viewed the entire proceedings with detached interest from a height of 35,000 feet, much to the bemusement of the others in the team. After that, I got a minder for the rest of our stay at Ahmedabad.

Sorry for the delay in reply. A long power cut.

Clarification needed for #1, #2, #5. Can external sources that carry those views be phrased as "Right-wingers" ( from any religious community ) because that phrase to me is not abusive ?

In my personal opinion, both 'right-winger' and 'left-winger' are acceptable phrases.

The reason for saying that this is my personal opinion is that we always operate under the Forum Rules. For a definitive reply, I will prefer to run it past the Moderators' team; if we decide something is kosher, and they disallow it later, that sets up a lot of confusion.

So, yes, for now, both these are acceptable. We may be corrected by the Moderators later, but until that happens, I feel we can go ahead with those two.

Sorry for the delay in reply. A long power cut.

Clarification needed for #1, #2, #5. Can external sources that carry those views be phrased as "Right-wingers" ( from any religious community ) because that phrase to me is not abusive ?

Important: are you willing to put aside some time to look at subscribing members' posts? This is essentially a self-disciplined community, but there is some debate about whether or not to have an oversight committee of three. Your name is prominent among the suggested members. Will you do it?

For the mechanics of such tasks as overseeing members' posts, there is a quick and effective method open to all of us, and you need not worry about how to find out who has posted in which thread and what that post contains. More on that later. Are you on?

 

[Sharma Ji]

Sorry for the delay in reply. A long power cut.

Clarification needed for #1, #2, #5. Can external sources that carry those views be phrased as "Right-wingers" ( from any religious community ) because that phrase to me is not abusive ?

This whole thing is a joke. You lot signing up probably never get banned for your views anyway

**** policing language, free speech ftw !

however, given the context of where we are

those of us in opposition to the narrative being peddled here need to be extra cautious, and not take things to heart and have a bad angry reaction. Learn to enjoy all the incoming fire.. selectively engage.. if they still ban you, they ban you.

just how it is here.

 

[jamahir]

Important: are you willing to put aside some time to look at subscribing members' posts?

Forty four pages will require me three to four days. Please allow me that.

but there is some debate about whether or not to have an oversight committee of three. Your name is prominent among the suggested members. Will you do it?

I can do it but there is the point about this system being formalized by being brought to the notice of the forum admins and them agreeing to give priority to the three special members reporting any out-of-order post.

OK, I will return in one hour. Please leave your reply.

This whole thing is a joke. You lot signing up probably never get banned for your views anyway

**** policing language, free speech ftw !

Well, I have never been banned but that I believe is because I have posted in line with forum rules. Though I have received plenty of warnings and some negative ratings.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Forty four pages will require me three to four days. Please allow me that.

Of course. I believe you are being too painstaking, but please do go through these 44 pages (and more, by the time you finish ) and satisfy yourself.

I can do it but there is the point about this system being formalized by being brought to the notice of the forum admins and them agreeing to give priority to the three special members reporting any out-of-order post.

The forum admins. are thinking about it. They (one very important member) was willing to go further than we. We need to give them time, too.

OK, I will return in one hour. Please leave your reply.

Take your time.

This whole thing is a joke. You lot signing up probably never get banned for your views anyway

I don't understand; maybe it is because I am inherently stupid.

Do you want to get banned? Or do you want not to get banned? It isn't clear what you want. If you want to vent your feelings, not facts, you may get banned. If you represent facts, and can show that they are indeed facts and not your opinion or the opinion of someone whose opinions you subscribe to, I don't see why you should get banned.

Please check with the Mods. how often I have been banned; indeed, you may check how many times they have warned me.

If an old f**t can get there after 22,000 posts, a smarty-pants like you should be able to do it balancing on your b***s.

Well, I have never been banned but that I believe is because I have posted in line with forum rules. Though I have received plenty of warnings and some negative ratings.

....and no negative ratings. There were four, but those were against the guidelines, and they were removed on appeal.

 

[IMARV]

The forum admins. are thinking about it. They (one very important member) was willing to go further than we. We need to give them time, too.

So after "Khap" has settled with a code of conduct, we are slowly moving toward having "panchs". That's what I wanted, we are moving that way !!

Lets infect this forum with democracy once, there is no returning back then.

 

[Joe Shearer]

those of us in opposition to the narrative being peddled here need to be extra cautious, and not take things to heart and have a bad angry reaction. Learn to enjoy all the incoming fire.. selectively engage.. if they still ban you, they ban you

Difficult to swallow that. It's in the language. Please see within this thread itself. There have been hostile posts; there is a civilised way to respond to them without being obsequious or slavish.

Most of the whining about being punished for being frank and opposing the narrative, as their saying goes, comes from those too lazy or too ill-equipped to handle their responses as they should. So whose fault is that? The Moderator, or the member?

Oh, I forgot; I have opposed the narrative, keeping within the rules. It does attract hostility. The latest is the group forming up among frustrated Pakistani members who feel that there are overt trolls among Indian members, and a small handful of covert trolls, trolls who hide their trolling under seemingly acceptable posts.

This is so laughably contrived that the members concerned will probably break into broad smiles if they re-read what they posted. If a post is within the rules, it isn't trolling, it's a difference in viewpoint. Calling it covert trolling merely shows the bankruptcy of the complainer, his inability to deal with a difference from his views even when the difference is expressed in polite, courteous language. Those who complain do not want to understand - they can understand if they wish to - that an Indian may be opposed to the government of the day, but remain an Indian who supports the bulk of the positions taken by the Indian state, beyond and above the remit of the present pests who form the government.

So stop whining; it doesn't suit a man within sight of the 40s. Get with it, use your language skills, that you have in plenty, and present the Indian point of view that is defensible without telling us that you can't do it because those nasty, mean Moderators are being bad to you.

To get to the specific point - there's nothing in the guidelines that you can really object to. You are objecting to the effort necessary.

Forgive my candour, but you are effectively saying that you are too lazy to make any effort, and want the world to get back in step with you.

Hanky available if required.

 

[TheGreatMaratha]

Forty four pages will require me three to four days. Please allow me that.

You don't really need to go through the whole thread. The 'clauses' that @Joe Shearer shared are enough to get a basic understanding of things.

 

[Joe Shearer]

So after "Khap" has settled with a code of conduct, we are slowly moving toward having "panchs". That's what I wanted, we are moving that way !!

Lets infect this forum with democracy once, there is no returning back then.

I am glad to read your inputs.

I am sure that you realise that the reverse, a bigoted set of members beating up Pakistani members of an Indian forum, doesn't work any better than the beating up of Indian members of a Pakistani forum.

I hope you have figured it out that it will be humiliating for any Indian forum to face their Pakistani members grouping themselves into a cooperative that is concerned with tehzeed and tameez (if those are the correct words and expressions).

If @Safriz were to open up about his experiences, it might be amusing to read your responses.

Your deep and abiding interest in this effort, and your jibes about khaps and panchayats are quite understandable.

You don't really need to go through the whole thread. The 'clauses' that @Joe Shearer are enough to get a basic understanding of things.

True, but let him do it. All the better for it; he will come out with a reinforced character for the effort!!

You may just be exposing yourself on this, badly I must add. Supremacy Virus that almost all Indians on here are infected by is revealing as usual

'All people are equal' - but you Indians will NEVER sign up to such CoC!

Without this, whatever CoC you end up with is DEAD!

LOL.

Do you have anything to add besides the customary Bon Voyage?

I asked you to suggest what you wanted to see in terms of some of the missing characteristics,

↑

Did I miss the part in the code on Humanity, Equality, Harmony and Reconciliation? Without these cores, I really do not see much if any positive outcomes.

Why don't you suggest what these could be? We seek to be truly open, even to hostile opinion.

and all that resulted was a deafening silence. Either put up or shut up.

 

[TheGreatMaratha]

@Joe Shearer I know it's a bit late but can we add in one more clause? It's basically about respecting people from all regions and parts of India and not talking negatively or making jokes about them. I've unfortunately witnessed this quite a few times over here. A friendly banter once in a while is okay but doing this on a repetitive basis can be offensive.

 

[Sharma Ji]

I don't understand; maybe it is because I am inherently stupid.

Do you want to get banned? Or do you want not to get banned? It isn't clear what you want. If you want to vent your feelings, not facts, you may get banned. If you represent facts, and can show that they are indeed facts and not your opinion or the opinion of someone whose opinions you subscribe to, I don't see why you should get banned.

Please check with the Mods. how often I have been banned; indeed, you may check how many times they have warned me.

If an old f**t can get there after 22,000 posts, a smarty-pants like you should be able to do it balancing on your b***s.

Joe Saab.

Of course I don't want to get banned, not here to vent my feelings either..far from it, far far from it in fact.

I have been banned for sharing mere news links, credible sources and everything.. whoever mod on combat patrol was obviously very trigger happy that day.

Not here to fight with people anyway.. I want to talk to them.

 

[Joe Shearer]

@Joe Shearer I know it's a bit late but can we add in one more clause? It's basically about respecting people from all regions and parts of India and not talking negatively or making jokes about them. I've unfortunately witnessed this quite a few times over here. A friendly banter once in a while is okay but doing this on a repetitive basis can be offensive.

You have a point, but you yourself need to realise that there are deep-rooted and historical animosities that we cannot wish away. That exchange on nursery rhymes was an example. What happened, happened; the member (not Indian) who posted that is also aware who drove my families out of our native land, to wander about like ghosts in this country; on the other hand, he is also aware who murdered his blood-kin. We need to move on, and I have forgiven them, and they have forgiven their sometime oppressors.

The point is, forgiveness is not forgetfulness.

Fair enough; we will include that clause. I hope in return, and I am saying this directly to you, we get sensitivity about the roles that our distant ancestors played in the past.

Joe Saab.

Of course I don't want to get banned, not here to vent my feelings either..far from it, far far from it in fact.

I have been banned for sharing mere news links, credible sources and everything.. whoever mod on combat patrol was obviously very trigger happy that day.

Not here to fight with people anyway.. I want to talk to them.

Dil pe kyun leta tu? I can't be forthright without the tears springing from your eyes? OK, pass the gag along this way.

I have been banned for sharing mere news links, credible sources and everything.. whoever mod on combat patrol was obviously very trigger happy that day.

At a later stage, without mixing that up with this, we can ask the team why that was done and understand things better; perhaps even convey our point of view successfully. Preserve those instances if you can.

But not now. For now, I want to see us setting an example - TO OURSELVES.

I know it's a bit late but can we add in one more clause? It's basically about respecting people from all regions and parts of India and not talking negatively or making jokes about them. I've unfortunately witnessed this quite a few times over here. A friendly banter once in a while is okay but doing this on a repetitive basis can be offensive.

@DalalErMaNodi

Please read my response as well. I think we also (I include myself first of all, I cited that nursery rhyme two or three times before) need to let go, as far as day-to-day interaction is concerned.

Forgiving does not mean forgetting.

@Joe Shearer I know it's a bit late but can we add in one more clause? It's basically about respecting people from all regions and parts of India and not talking negatively or making jokes about them. I've unfortunately witnessed this quite a few times over here. A friendly banter once in a while is okay but doing this on a repetitive basis can be offensive.

In a few minutes, please check the code for the amendment. Thanks.

 

[DalalErMaNodi]

@Joe Shearer of course, live and let live.