Sufism/ Tasawuf (Islamic mysticism)

[Indos]

That hadith is talking about revivors, not Rasul. I do not want to discuss religion, just a historic aspect of Sufism. But what you said is the basic idea behind Ahmadies. it is the fundamental belief of Muslims that Prophet Muhammad is the last Nabi, which means he is the Last Rasul. Because a Nabi is a Rasul. There is no Rasul after him.

Well brother.....In my definition the name of Nabi means " Rasul that brings shariah law", and Rasul in general is a messenger who is send by ALLAH to do what He said (I believe the messenger words in English has quite different meaning in Arabic if it is converted into Verb that makes my definition is more fit). So in short, all Nabi is Rasul, but not all Rasul is Nabi.

As we know another possibility of next Nabi arrival has been eliminated by surah Al-Maidah, so in my definition, Ahmadiyah people cannot win their argument either even though Rasul is still coming on after Prophet Muhamad passed away ( to revive Islam as we saw many of them have already came). I think we are arguing some thing that is still disputable brother, and Ahmadiyah is something that has so weak religious and rational backing.

Furthermore, I don't buy your opinion that Ibnu Taymiyah is not a Sunni so he cannot be compared with Al-Ghazali. In my view, as long as his teaching fits with Quran and Hadist, I dont have any reason not to put him here brother.... But as I mentioned earlier...I am the one who is in the middle path between those two since Ibnu Taymiyah is quite conservative person and, in some part, I think Al-Ghazali is too excessive either in his teaching regarding some issue. My recommended Sufi is some ones that I will bring into this thread (I have brought At-Tirmidzi and Ibnu Qayim, there will be more later, inshaALLAH)

 

[Multani]

Well brother.....In my definition the name of Nabi means " Rasul that brings shariah law", and Rasul in general is a messenger who is send by ALLAH to do what He said (I believe the messenger words in English has quite different meaning in Arabic if it is converted into Verb that makes my definition is more fit). As we know another possibility of next Nabi arrival has been eliminated by surah Al-Maidah, so in my definition, Ahmadiyah people cannot win their argument either even though Rasul is still coming on after Prophet Muhamad passed away ( to revive Islam as we saw many of them have already came). I think we are arguing some thing that is still disputable brother, and Ahmadiyah is something that has so weak religious and rational backing.

Furthermore, I don't buy your opinion that Ibnu Taymiyah is not a Sunni so he cannot be compared with Al-Ghazali. In my view, as long as his teaching fits with Quran and Hadist, I dont have any reason not to put him here brother.... But as I mentioned earlier...I am the one who is in the middle path between those two since Ibnu Taymiyah is quite conservative person and, in some part, I think Al-Ghazali is to excessive either in his teaching regarding some issue. My recommended Sufi is some ones that I will bring into this thread

it is Surah Ahzaab that eliminates the possibility of another Nabi.


Surah Maidah, however, also eliminates possibility of another Rasul. Therefore, no Rasul can come after Prophet Muhammad SAWAS, because he is the final Messenger [ Rasul ]

A Rasul is someone who receives Wahy. No one can receive Wahy after Prophet Muhammad SAWAS.

 

[Multani]

I have another opinion @Akheilos

Nabi= Nubuwah (some one who carry ALLAH book) New regulation (Holy book)
Rasul= Messenger (ALLAH can send any one for doing any purpose, including leadership role or purifying the religion)

Nabi is Rasul but higher, Rasul can be Nabi or just Rasul.

Thats why ALLAH said in Al-Maidah verses that He stop sending Nabi (Not Rasul). Rasul can still be continued

From amongst the well-known Saheeh Ahaadeeth that was related by the noble Sahaabah Abu Hurairah (ra) from the Messenger of Allah صلى الله عليه وسلم that he said:

إِنَّ اللَّهَ يَبْعَثُ لِهَذِهِ الْأُمَّةِ عَلَى رَأْسِ كُلِّ مِائَةِ سَنَةٍ مَنْ يُجَدِّدُ لَهَا دِينَهَا

"Verily Allah sends to this Ummah at the head of every one hundred years someone who will renew the Deen for it".

Related by Abu Daawood (4291) and was verified as Saheeh by As-Sakhaawiy in 'Al-Maqqsid Al-Hasanah' (149) and Al-Albaaniy in 'As-Silsilah As-Saheehah' (599).

Rasul is someone who receives Wahy. A Rasul is higher than a Nabi. A Nabi is someone who revives the message of the Rasul.

 

[Indos]

Rasul is someone who receives Wahy. A Rasul is higher than a Nabi. A Nabi is someone who revives the message of the Rasul.

Yup, it is what I am told before, general definition about Nabi and Rasul for most Muslim in the world. But I believe some one can still receive wahyu without implementing new law, just like the way it has been experienced by Khidr. And no verse in Quran that said ALLAH will not send any Rasul anymore, the verse tell that ALLAH will not send any Nabi.

Actually, I am full aware that my definition is too sensitive in Pakistan, since it can bring some kind of room for Ahmadiah people who are so many in Pakistan, but I have to say what I think is the truth. But as I and You have mentioned here, Surah Al-Maidah is a closed door to any of new rules in Islam just like the way Ahmadiah sect try to spoil it.

"Forbidden to you is that which dies of itself, and blood, and flesh of swine, and that on which any other name than that of Allah has been invoked, and the strangled animal and that beaten to death, and that killed by a fall and that killed by being smitten with the horn, and that which wild beasts have eaten, except what you slaughter, and what is sacrificed on stones set up for idols and that you divide by the arrows; that is a transgression. This day have those who disbelieve despair of your religion, so fear them not, and fear Me. This day have I perfected for you your religion and completed My favor on you and chosen for you Islam as a religion; but whoever is compelled by hunger, not inclining willfully to sin, then surely Allah is Forgiving, Merciful."[5:2-3[

Quran: Al-Maidah: 2-3

 

[Multani]

Yup, it is what I am told before, general definition about Nabi and Rasul for most Muslim in the world. But I believe some one can still receive wahyu without implementing new law, just like the way it has been experienced by Khidr. And no verse in Quran that said ALLAH will not send any Rasul anymore, the verse tell that ALLAH will not send any Nabi.

Not most Muslim, ALL Muslim. It is the basic belief of Islam. subhanAllah. I have never heard what you are saying except from Ahmadies.

Risalat is new revelation. New Shariat. New Message. It is basic Arabic.

Nubuwwa, is a revivor of the Shariat. "nabaa" is the root word which has many meanings but all around "inform"

Nabi means anointed one for that purpose.

This is basic Arabic.

Khidr is not like you and me. He is a special creation of Allah.

No man after RasoolAllah SAWAS can receive wahy.

A Rasul is Higher than a Nabi. Since there cannot be a Nabi after Prophet Muhammad SAWAS, there cannot be a Rasul.

If a Muslim believes another person after Prophet Muhammad SAWAS receives wahy, then he cannot be considered a Muslim.

 

[Indos]

Not most Muslim, ALL Muslim. It is the basic belief of Islam. subhanAllah. I have never heard what you are saying except from Ahmadies.

Risalat is new revelation. New Shariat. New Message. It is basic Arabic.

Nubuwwa, is a revivor of the Shariat. "nabaa" is the root word which has many meanings but all around "inform"

Nabi means anointed one for that purpose.

This is basic Arabic.

Khidr is not like you and me. He is a special creation of Allah.

No man after RasoolAllah SAWAS can receive wahy.

A Rasul is Higher than a Nabi. Since there cannot be a Nabi after Prophet Muhammad SAWAS, there cannot be a Rasul.

If a Muslim believes another person after Prophet Muhammad SAWAS receives wahy, then he cannot be considered a Muslim.

My definition about Rasul is something that is so different with Ahmadiah. I bet you have already read mine, haven't you? It is just my though since I read the verse, and it is said the words "Nabi" in Arabic. But I have already talked about it with an Islamic study professor that study Islam so long in academic way and he told me that there is a dispute on it. But anyway just put aside this differences. In Quran we have been told to put aside something disputable issue that is not really that important. And this argumentation has no meaning as well, just a discussion. I bet the next person that will come up is Imam Mahdi inshaALLAH, so this argumentation has no real effect. I am surprised though by they way you come up with this kind of bold statement. I think we should stick on Sufism issues than this ones......

 

[Multani]

My definition about Rasul is something that is so different with Ahmadiah. I bet you have already read mine, haven't you? It is just my though since I read the verse, and it is said the words "Nabi" in Arabic. But I have already talked about it with an Islamic study professor that study Islam so long in academic way and he told me that there is a dispute on it. But anyway just put aside this differences. In Quran we have been told to put aside something disputable issue that is not really that important. And this argumentation has no meaning as well, just a discussion. I bet the next person that will come up is Imam Mahdi inshaALLAH, so this argumentation has no real affect. I am surprised though by they way you come up with this kind of bold statement. I think we should stick on Sufism issues than this ones......

you are confusing between the exact definition of a Rasul and the coming of a Rasul.

There is no dispute on the matter of the coming of a Rasul or a Nabi after Prophet Muhammad SAWAS in Islam. This is a fundamental belief that makes one a Muslim. It is not some umimportant or disputable issue.

 

[Indos]

you are confusing between the exact definition of a Rasul and the coming of a Rasul.

There is no dispute on the matter of the coming of a Rasul or a Nabi after Prophet Muhammad SAWAS in Islam. This is a fundamental belief that makes one a Muslim. It is not some umimportant or disputable issue.

I never said another Nabi will come....I just link the coming of Rasul with the "Islam Reviver" in Hadist. And after each hundred years no ones coming up saying that he is a Rasul himself. So whether this reviver received any Wahyu from ALLAH or not is something that is not important for the Ummah. I believe ALLAH wanted them not to tell it (if my theory is true). It is what we are disputing here, whether they got some Wahyu or not from ALLAH to do a reviver duty. So, can we put aside this things that can derail this nice thread ?

 

[Multani]

I never said another Nabi will come....I just link the coming of Rasul with the "Islam Reviver" in Hadist. And after each hundred years no ones coming up saying that he is a Rasul himself. So whether this reviver received any Wahyu from ALLAH or not is something that is not important for the Ummah. I believe ALLAH wanted them not to tell it (if my theory is true). It is what we are disputing here, whether they got some Wahyu or not from ALLAH to do a reviver duty. So, can we put aside this things that can derail this nice thread ?

The "Islamic Reviver" is known as "Mujaddid" in Arabic. Not Rasul. This is the Hadist you quoted

Sayyiduna Abu-Hurayrah Radi ALLAHu Anho narrates that Sayyiduna Rasoolullah Sallallaho Alaihi wa Sallam said: ان الله تعالى يبعث لهذه الامة على رأس كلّ مائة سنة من يجدد لها دينهاVerily Allah will send at the beginning of every century such a person for this Ummah who will rejuvenate and restore their religion (Deen).

No where does it say Rasul. It talks of a Mujaddid. What is a Mujaddi? Someone who does Tajdid. The verb in the Hadist is "yujaddid"

 

[Indos]

The "Islamic Reviver" is known as "Mujaddid" in Arabic. Not Rasul. This is the Hadist you quoted

Sayyiduna Abu-Hurayrah Radi ALLAHu Anho narrates that Sayyiduna Rasoolullah Sallallaho Alaihi wa Sallam said: ان الله تعالى يبعث لهذه الامة على رأس كلّ مائة سنة من يجدد لها دينهاVerily Allah will send at the beginning of every century such a person for this Ummah who will rejuvenate and restore their religion (Deen).

No where does it say Rasul. It talks of a Mujaddid. What is a Mujaddi? Someone who does Tajdid. The verb in the Hadist is "yujaddid"

OK. Done. No dispute. I just want to link it into this people. Who makes Islam get cleaned once again. A Mujaddid, not some ones that bring something new, just someone that has better understanding on Islam and ALLAH wants them to be a leader of Ummah. And if this people get a dream from ALLAH to be a reviver is not really an issue. If they get direct message from ALLAH..... So you know what definition that I want to give to them. We just dont know...and don't make it as a disputable issue

 

[Indos]

However, this should not be exaggerated coz it sounds like how the people translated some of their text of the old religions into become monks and live away from humans!

Yup, I believe that this practice should not be exaggerated into like that, even though many Great Sufis did do that kind of practice. I believe we should follow our Prophet live as a perfect example of how to find and enter the spiritual road in our heart. But I don't blame them either since the reason of why they did that is to throw away any worldly attachement that they have in their heart. Praying and dzikir can do the same thing as well but some people do some extreme way like that to get faster result.

In a normal way, praying 5 times can also results the same in some degree. It is needed for us to break any worldly attachement that can spoil our heart. I bet as a Muslim we can feel it right after praying . In essence, eliminating any worldly attachement is one of the very important aspect of Sufism. Instead of being attached to worldly things, we have to get emotionally attached to ALLAH. It is a good knowledge for any one who are experiencing break up relationship now.

This practice is done until we can reach a state where we are not too much attached any more to worldly interest. Thats why many similar acts are being endorsed by this teaching like refraining any desire to get famous and rich, getting spouse, or some thing like that in the beginning of our life (or before we can reach safe state (maqam). The reason of why we want many worldly things in life is because we believe that those thing are worthy, so we pursuit them to fell "worthiness inside the heart." It is the reason of why we love someone or something.

Hence, we have to reverse our core belief first before we can see in the heart (feel) that ALLAH is the Most Worthy. In my opinion and Sufism opinion, the majority of people belief is that the world is more worthy than ALLAH in their subconscious mind, even though they believe that ALLAH is the Most Worthy in their conscious mind.

I think we all know that as a Muslim we are obligated to find the highest worthiness through ALLAH, like through improving our faith and do contribution (jihad) as much as we could. Actually, If we really believe ALLAH is worthy in our subconsciosness, so we will feel him worthy in our heart. It is a basic principle in psychology. Feeling is a result of belief that we have in our subconscious mind. It is the difference of being just a Muslim (surrender) and a Mukmin (believer). Conscious mind is our brain, subconscious mind is our heart.

So then, after we are able to feel Him more worthy than anything else, than we can start to love Him more than any one or any thing and also like to be near Him in emotional way (just like remembering Him in a relax way by hearing music or pursuit more seriousness act by doing i'tikaf in the mosque). As the natural instinct of the heart is to like or love something worthy in order us to feel worthy as well. But of course, being able to love Him can be pursuit by another thing as well, like softening our heart, which is another practice in Sufism, that is usually conducted by hearing music, or reading touching poem, reading Quran etc.

In short, Sufism is working in an area that can be called as psychology aspect of Islam. So learning psychology can make us better understand about the reason of this practice.

 

[Indos]

 

[Indos]

I want to bring some logic behind Sufism


The power of solitude
By M.Farouk Radwan, MSc.

Do you feel bad when you are Alone?
What kind of emotions do you experience while being alone?
Do you feel bored?
Do you feel unhappy?
do you feel bad?

we Humans are social beings by nature. We enjoy the company of other people and the activities that allows us to connect to people But if you feel really bad when you are alone instead of just feeling OK or a little bored then you may lack the power of solitude.

The power of Solitude
The power of solitude is the expression that is used to describe the trait that allows a person to feel good and adequate when being alone. I am not saying that you should always be staying alone but at least when you are alone you shouldn’t feel that bad.

What makes a person unable to stay alone is his external dependency which is the desire to escape from his bad mood by doing anything that could keep him busy (like meeting people in our case).

Why do i feel bad when am Alone?
If you currently don't have any big problems in your life then most probably you will be able to feel good while staying alone. Whatever the kind of activity you will do you will find it joyful even if you are doing it alone.

On the other hand the more bad you will feel the more likely you are going to be dependent on someone else to escape from your bad emotions and to avoid facing your problems. So the power of solitude is not constant but it changes with the external circumstances.

There is no problem in escaping to social life when you have big problems provided that you work on a solution instead of ignoring the problem.

People who escape from their problems and never try to solve them end up depressed. In my book The ultimate guide to getting over depression i explained how ignoring your problems and allowing them to accumulate can be the primary source for depression. Some people do their best to solve their problems by taking actions while others never do anything and thus end up depressed.

Satisfy your needs
We need others because we have many unmet needs. The more unmet needs we have the more needy we will be when it comes to spending time with others.

If you constantly need reassurance or attention then you might find yourself unable to stay alone even for few hours.

Understand your basic needs, work on satiating them with a solid plan and you will develop the power of solitude.


The power of solitude | 2KnowMySelf

 

[the just]

My ghod.you guys can stretch a single line to 3 pages.
KHATAMUN NABIYEIN.
As simple as that.What's there to understand?
BTW please post about Sufism.The actual history. When? Where? And by whom did it start?
The early historical proof that Sufism is part of Islam.

 

[SQ8]

Just another question....Doesnt prayer solah do the same so whats the difference_

Sure... if one is to follow all that is exact and verified by supposed mujtahids , stamped and signed.. then 5 prayers should be enough. Who cared about additional nawafil or any of the other salah's recommended by 4 great Imams.. and so on.