Su-30MKI & JF-17 Air Fight

[EagleEyes]

Personally i dont think J-10 will match up to MKI. I think J-10s more around the league of a Mig-29. I think the only aircrafts in asia that match up to the MKI are the israeli F-15I Ra'am.

Thats just your opinion, but the fact is that JF-17, F-16 or any BVR capable fighter can take on MKI. MKI just has the radar show off, and that too is negated by the big RCS of the plane.

 

[ali786]

Dude, India uses Isreali avionics not Russian.

my bad

 

[KENT]

What components are they? Other than avionics design structure i haven't heard anything that is Russian. Buttons may be?

Avionics:

A new FBW system that made the best use of the canards and thrust vectoring

The main sensor on the Su 30 MKI is the N011M Phased Array radar. It is a multi-mode dual frequency (X- and L-band channels, NATO I and D band) radar.


OLS-27 laser-optical locator system devloped by UMOZ company of russia to include a day and night FLIR capability and is used in conjunction with the helmet mounted sighting system. The OLS-27 (Izdeliye 36Sh) is a combined IRST/LR device using a cooled, broader waveband, sensor.

 

[KENT]

Thats just your opinion, but the fact is that JF-17, F-16 or any BVR capable fighter can take on MKI.

Definetly JF-17 and F-16 are BVR capable, but excuse care to point out the range and radar capability of these fighter versus MKI. I hope once you realise it then you would not make any of such statements

MKI just has the radar show off,

May be! but it can track its target much before its opponents even know about MKI exitance in their immediate periphery. On the top of that it can aim 8 target simultenously. Range of this radar is kind of thatm MKI can even act as Mini-awacs

and that too is negated by the big RCS of the plane.

MKI has utlised maximum extent of Composites, so RCS of MKi is not that a big deal, since it has long range radar.

 

[EagleEyes]

Source please.

 

[KENT]

Source please.

A multi-national avionics complex sourced from Russia, France, Israel and India which includes Display, Navigation, Targeting and Electronic warfare systems. (Wikipedia)

A new FBW system that made the best use of the canards and thrust vectoring(wikipedia, vayu-sena.tripod.com/info-su30mki.html )

Avionics: The main sensor on the Su 30 MKI is the N011M Phased Array radar. It is a multi-mode dual frequency (X- and L-band channels, NATO I and D band) radar. (Sukhoi Su-30 MKI, wikipedia)
OLS-27 laser-optical locator system devloped by UMOZ company of russia to include a day and night FLIR capability and is used in conjunction with the helmet mounted sighting system. The OLS-27 (Izdeliye 36Sh) is a combined IRST/LR device using a cooled, broader waveband, sensor.

(wikipedia, OLS-27/29 (Russian Federation) - Jane's Avionics)

 

[Owais]

Definetly JF-17 and F-16 are BVR capable, but excuse care to point out the range and radar capability of these fighter versus MKI. I hope once you realise it then you would not make any of such statements

F-16 Block 52 can detect the target having RCS of 3m2 from 130+ km and it have RCS of 1.2m2. Mki have RCS of 10.2m2 so F-16 is not inferior to Mki in any sence! as far as JF-17 is concern, it can also neutralize mki's radar advantage if its backed by AWAC.

MKI has utlised maximum extent of Composites, so RCS of MKi is not that a big deal, since it has long range radar.

yes provide us source please in which it is said that composites have reduced its RCS from 10.2m2 to 3m2

 

[Proud to be Pakistani]

F-16 Block 52 can detect the target having RCS of 3m2 from 130+ km and it have RCS of 1.2m2. Mki have RCS of 10.2m2 so F-16 is not inferior to Mki in any sence! as far as JF-17 is concern, it can also neutralize mki's radar advantage if its backed by AWAC.


yes provide us source please in which it is said that composites have reduced its RCS from 10.2m2 to 3m2

Very nice Post!

Correct on the dot!... MKI RCS is more than any Jet Fighter of F-16 class and cannot be reduced beyond certain range. No way to 3m2.

Maybe India has been given a stealth MKI....

 

[MOSABJA]

The biggest advantage of Su Mki is its LONG RANGE RADAR and BVRs.

It can only be taken by a 4.5 th generation air craft.WHICH PAKISTAN DOES NOT HAVE NOW.

F 16 E only falls in 4.5 category .We are purchasing D and F which are 4 th and cant compete with Su MKi .JF 17 is also 4 Gen it too cant compete.

so in 4.5 category we can only get J 10s.Rafales,Typhoons,F 16 Es,F22s are NOT AVAILABLE TO PAKISTAN.Only J10(advanced ) will be able to take out Su Mkis.JF 17 THUNDER NEEDS TO BE UPGRADED.

 

[Proud to be Pakistani]

The biggest advantage of Su Mki is its LONG RANGE RADAR and BVRs.

It can only be taken by a 4.5 th generation air craft.WHICH PAKISTAN DOES NOT HAVE NOW.

F 16 E only falls in 4.5 category .We are purchasing D and F which are 4 th and cant compete with Su MKi .JF 17 is also 4 Gen it too cant compete.

so in 4.5 category we can only get J 10s.Rafales,Typhoons,F 16 Es,F22s are NOT AVAILABLE TO PAKISTAN.Only J10(advanced ) will be able to take out Su Mkis.JF 17 THUNDER NEEDS TO BE UPGRADED.

Kindly review all the data before sounding so depressed!....

MKI has only 1 advantage on F-16 and JF-17 and that is its Radar.

F-16 can engage with MKI with its radar and AIM-120 since the RCS (radar cross sectional Area) of MKI is nearly 10 sq.m and the range of AIM-120 is 120+ Km with the detection range of F-16 radar upto nearly 140 Km for a Jet of MKI size. You do understand that the RCS (radar cross sectional Area) changes the range of detection...

Hence an F-16 block 50 with AIM-120 or a JF-17 with MICA and support from AEW&C will give a evens match to MKI.

 

[KENT]

F-16 Block 52 can detect the target having RCS of 3m2 from 130+ km and it have RCS of 1.2m2.

MKI's N011m HAS A 350 KM seach range and maximum 200km tracking range, and 60 km in the rear hemisphere. A mig-21 can be detected at the distance of up to 135 km. And designed maxium search range for an f-16 was 140-160km.


This means that Mki will track f-16 much before owing to radar range.

Even if F-16 manage to track mki much before then which kind of missile it will going to engage MKI. Since maxium range of Aim BVR missiles is less then 100 km, whereas MKI's R-27 TE1's maxium range is 130km.

May be you can provide details about F-16 block 52 radar and range of missile of PAF to correct me if I am wrong.

Mki have RCS of 10.2m2 so F-16 is not inferior to Mki in any sence!

I didn't tried to prove inferiority of F-16 versus MKI as Radar and BVR missiles of both these birds makes maximum difference.

as far as JF-17 is concern, it can also neutralize mki's radar advantage if its backed by AWAC.

JF-17 will not only have to neutralise MKI's radar but also BVR, ECM suits as well. I don't even taking into account Phalcon awacs as well.

yes provide us source please in which it is said that composites have reduced its RCS from 10.2m2 to 3m2

Just read my post correctly, I never bring factor of RCS from 10.2m2 to 3m2, I just advocate a marginal reduction in RCS of MKI on account of Composites as well as justied huge RCS is not an issue as long as Bar radar is concerned.

 

[KENT]

Very nice Post!

Correct on the dot!... MKI RCS is more than any Jet Fighter of F-16 class and cannot be reduced beyond certain range. No way to 3m2.

Right now F-16block 52 has only a single advantage in terms of RCS as far as MKI is concerned.

Maybe India has been given a stealth MKI....

Pls read my post correctly.

 

[KENT]

Kindly review all the data before sounding so depressed!....

MKI has only 1 advantage on F-16 and JF-17 and that is its Radar.

F-16 can engage with MKI with its radar and AIM-120 since the RCS (radar cross sectional Area) of MKI is nearly 10 sq.m and the range of AIM-120 is 120+ Km with the detection range of F-16 radar upto nearly 140 Km for a Jet of MKI size. You do understand that the RCS (radar cross sectional Area) changes the range of detection...

Hence an F-16 block 50 with AIM-120 or a JF-17 with MICA and support from AEW&C will give a evens match to MKI.

Pls also tell about BVR advantage of Su-30MKI vs F-16 52

 

[Titanium]

MKI has utlised maximum extent of Composites, so RCS of MKi is not that a big deal, since it has long range radar.

Maximum Extent as in maximum allowed-- 100%???? Could you quantify what is maximum extent, ala 45% by weight and 90% surface area bioler plate..

 

[Proud to be Pakistani]

Pls also tell about BVR advantage of Su-30MKI vs F-16 52

Kent,

F-16 can engage MKI and that is it.

Who will suceed ...

Only an engagement will tell since it has never been seen!