Su-30MKI & JF-17 Air Fight

[Adux]

Ram coating has been done in India for the past one decade.

 

[Titanium]

Ram coating has been done in India for the past one decade.

Great !!!! If that reduces the flankers RCS to 1 square meter congrats on the job well done.

 

[Adux]

I have heard they reduced MKI to 3 m2. while they made it better on jaguars and other mirage's.

 

[Chukkar]

Your disgusting behaviour stands testament to the futility of discussing things with you. Suffice to say this will be my last post to you, since you are more interested in asinine name calling versus information exchange.

I request the admins to deal with this individual before he drags down the forum to his rather pathetic standards.

And here I thought this was one forum, where one could post on India or Pakistan without either side indulging in stupid name calling.

Would you care to point out the reports to that effect, which imply RCS reduction is done way back 4 years!!!

Look up reports in Janes defence weekly under the byline of Robert Hewson and ITAE.

The russians are not providing SU-30 agreed upon and they are providing RCS reduction technique... which by all accounts recent development!!!!

Recent development? Please. The report I posted is from 4 years back and at the time itself, over 100 Flankers had been modified with LO treatment.

Please either you say India has developed or developing.......if you do not know DON'T BS here .

I think it should be clear to everyone here who is BS'ing. In thread after thread and with constant abuse. Grow up and learn to talk in a civilized manner like an adult.

The terms I used mean exactly what they said. That India has developed certain items (RAM, and canopy treatment) already while it is researching others (frequency selective radomes). Anyone with access to IEEE or industry standard seminar workshops can confirm the above, as I have.

See you first started with Russian exported the technique now India going it alone!!! What kind of credibility you and your DODO spreading for the last 30 years.

Your name calling reflects on both your upbringing and lack of maturity. I dont have anything further to say to you.

It should be clear to ANYONE that ANY country will constantly evaluate what it makes vs what is available to it from international collaboration. Just because India has developed these items does not mean that it will ignore Russian RCS reduction methods which could bring in new alternatives that they may not have considered. Or that the Russians had already done the job and the Indians would seek their input before proceeding on their own, saving time, effort and money.

P.S: Next time if you do have to say anything technical please think over before posting.

Quite rich coming from you. I do think that you dont even deserve to be debated with.

 

[Chukkar]

I have heard they reduced MKI to 3 m2. while they made it better on jaguars and other mirage's.

This is from 2004 itself.

Sukhoi Flanker aircraft benefit from low-observable modifications

More than 100 aircraft in the Sukhoi Su-27/30 Flanker family have been equipped with a set of low-observable (LO) modifications that reduce head-on radar detection range by 50 per cent, according to Dr Vladimir Kisel of the Institute for Theoretical and Applied Electromagnetics (ITAE) at the Russian Academy of Sciences in Moscow.

Speaking at the IQPC Defence conference on Stealth in 2004, Dr Kisel said that he was unable to say which air forces had received the LO modifications, which were carried out over the past 10 years. However, the Sukhoi has generated most of its revenues in that time through sales of the Su-27 series to India and China, raising the possibility that some of the Indian Air Force aircraft that performed unexpectedly well against US Air Force F-15Cs in last year's Cope India exercise may have been LO-modified.

The suite of LO modifications includes radar absorbent material (RAM) sprayed on to the inlet duct walls; RAM applied to the compressor face of the AL-31 engine; and the installation of a frequency-selective-surface (FSS) screen inside the radome, in front of the radar dish. (Similar modifications have been applied to the F-16 under the Have Glass and Have Glass II programmes.)

ITAE and Sukhoi make extensive use of real-world hardware in LO testing. Dr Kisel's presentation showed outdoor radar cross-section (RCS) ranges using a modified aircraft (not an RCS model) and a line-up of operational air-defence radars rather than a specialised instrumentation radar. Signatures from the inlet ducts were measured with the engine running, to model the effects of rotating engine stages.

That the MKIs in particular have received LO modifications has been stated by an European defence analyst writing for the Journal of Electronic Defense in 2005.

 

[joey]

heh India has FULL FLEDGED RCS Reduction/Measurement courtesy NAL besides IIT-Roorkee has developed a special type of RAM material and Some other institution is doing the same and as chukkar has pointed out Frequency Selected Radome etc.

MKI's RCS is definitely not 1^m but a weaponised EF/Rafales RCS is not less than 1^m as well, now do some quick RCS - Range equation the fourth square law to find the gain in range advantage for the amount of reduction in RCS, you will see a 3^m~5^m and a 1^m++ RCS objects dont offer too much Range differences in their detection spectras.

 

[Titanium]

This is from 2004 itself.



That the MKIs in particular have received LO modifications has been stated by an European defence analyst writing for the Journal of Electronic Defense in 2005.

Dio you know what is the RCS of flankers? and reducing it by 50% makes how much RCS?

Do you also give some credibility to word "may be".

 

[Keysersoze]

Dio you know what is the RCS of flankers? and reducing it by 50% makes how much RCS?

Do you also give some credibility to word "may be".

Well in answer to your question it is roughly 10 sq metres apparently the RCS reduction features have reduced it to approx 3 sq metres.

 

[Chukkar]

Dio you know what is the RCS of flankers? and reducing it by 50% makes how much RCS?

Do you also give some credibility to word "may be".

You should learn to read the source carefully before coming up with questions which make no sense! The article states that the range of detection was reduced by 50%- use the 4th square law and calculate, by what ratio the RCS would have to be reduced by. Its far more than 50%! And the Russians state this for the frontal aspect.

 

[mxiong]

In post-2010 PLAAF, J-10A/B will be used as air superiority fighter, whereas J-11B/Su-30MKs will be multirole fighters mainly for ground attack, now you tell me J-10 is a low-end companion for Su-30MKs? Give me a break!

J-10>>>>>Su-30MKI, and JF-17>=Su-30MKI, regarding air superiority.

 

[su-47]

In post-2010 PLAAF, J-10A/B will be used as air superiority fighter, whereas J-11B/Su-30MKs will be multirole fighters mainly for ground attack, now you tell me J-10 is a low-end companion for Su-30MKs? Give me a break!

J-10>>>>>Su-30MKI, and JF-17>=Su-30MKI, regarding air superiority.

Please be serious man! The Su-30 series is considered to be among the best in the world, whereas the J-10 is considered a capable fighter in the league of an f-16. The MKI is the best of the Su-30 series so to compare MKI vs J-10 is not even doing it justice.

 

[mxiong]

Please be serious man! The Su-30 series is considered to be among the best in the world, whereas the J-10 is considered a capable fighter in the league of an f-16. The MKI is the best of the Su-30 series so to compare MKI vs J-10 is not even doing it justice.

God, tell me how blind people could be to see the truth and how reluctant they could be to accept it...

 

[su-47]

In post-2010 PLAAF, J-10A/B will be used as air superiority fighter, whereas J-11B/Su-30MKs will be multirole fighters mainly for ground attack, now you tell me J-10 is a low-end companion for Su-30MKs? Give me a break!

J-10>>>>>Su-30MKI, and JF-17>=Su-30MKI, regarding air superiority.

Just because PLAAF is using J-10 as air superiority fighter and Flankers as multi-role doesnt mean flankers are weaker than J-10 in air-to-air combat. In that case F-15C should be superior to F-22in aerial engagements, since USAF uses F-15C for Air-to-air only and use F-22as multirole aircraft.

Even the USAF accepts the Chinese Flankers as a threat whereas they dont accept the J-10 as such a threat. the only reason they are wary of the J-10 is coz it can be mass produced.

If u think u know better than the USAF generals, then obviously nothing i say will convince u, so i'm not gonna bother.

 

[Titanium]

Please be serious man! The Su-30 series is considered to be among the best in the world, .

According to who? Could you please care to tell!!! The Su-30 when evaluated by indians airforce had so much good to say, do you know what? In one word crap. Why the IAF persued? the option were limited, so they chose to provide them with shiney avionics. But you know how pain in the AS** it is to maintain?

 

[EagleEyes]

The Wisdom Tree,

Please dont post your "crap" here. If you were a little more experienced you would have realized that those comments are made by Indian trolls, much similar to what is being done in Youtube. The only people visit Strategy Page are trolls.

If you want to get happy, keep reading, but DONT post it here.

Thanks.