Stone Age Soanian Culture (Ancient Pakistan II)

[MSafir]

In my opinion this history can be additional to the two nation theory....even if our ancestors did not convert to Islam, coterminous Pakistan was still different....it was only the colonial entity known as British India which made "us" the same....

I don't read too much into it. Because Muslims have more to introspect about themselves and their Islamic traditions and there is conflict of ideas between right way of following Islam.

I have no idea old ruins but what I know that those who were Muslims in Pakistan remained in Pakistan and those who were not they left as they were more comfortable with the otherside.

 

[UnitedPak]

Of course it did this is why Muslims in India's south region came out in open and adopted Islamic culture after Migration. It was always Islam first and its traditions as per Quran rather than local culture. This is why people created Pakistan. Otherwise they were not less Muslims sitting in Bengal or Bihar or Bombay or Assam.

You are not well versed in the history. Please get your facts correct.

You clearly know nothing of Pakistani culture or the Quran. Typical ganga e-warrior obsessed with Islam.

 

[TMA]

I don't read too much into it. Because Muslims have more to introspect about themselves and their Islamic traditions and there is conflict of ideas between right way of following Islam.

I have no idea old ruins but what I know that those who were Muslims in Pakistan remained in Pakistan and those who were not they left as they were more comfortable with the otherside.

You don't have to read it, but please, others can read to their hearts' content.

 

[MSafir]

You clearly know nothing of Pakistani culture or the Quran. Typical ganga e-warrior obsessed with Islam.

Call me what ever, I am Muslim that's all. I follow traditions as described in Quran you may continue living like a pandu from yindu, I have no problem with that. Looks like you were supposed to cross over but left behind due to trouble. And now spewing your anger on us for creating Pakistan.

You don't have to read it, but please, others can read to their hearts' content.

I simply said that those Hindus or other non muslim living in Pakistan before partition left the land as they are comfortable with Hindus and muslims living on the other side came to Pakistan to cherish Islamic culture leaving their regional identities behind.

 

[UnitedPak]

Call me what ever, I am Muslim that's all. I follow traditions as described in Quran you may continue living like a pandu from yindu, I have no problem with that. Looks like you were supposed to cross over but left behind due to trouble. And now spewing your anger on us for creating Pakistan.



I simply said that those Hindus or other non muslim living in Pakistan before partition left the land as they are comfortable with Hindus and muslims living on the other side came to Pakistan to cherish Islamic culture leaving their regional identities behind.

More nonsense only to be expected from a ganga.

Islam contributed to the culture of Pakistan for over a 1000 years via several Arabic, Persian and Turkic empires. It was not defined by Islam.

Pakistan movement was about preserving this existing Muslim identity of the region, not creating a new one.

You clearly have no understanding of Pakistani culture or Islam.

 

[MSafir]

More nonsense only to be expected from a ganga.

Islam contributed to the culture of Pakistan for over a 1000 years via several Arabic, Persian and Turkic empires. It was not defined by Islam.

Pakistan movement was about preserving this existing Muslim identity of the region, not creating a new one.

You clearly have no understanding of Pakistani culture or Islam.

And this is the reason people ignored indigenous tradition of fire ganga jhelum river worship to create Pakistan land of pure as per Islam not veda or poran . And this is the reason why Hindus from Pakistan migrated to India and Muslims from India migrated to Pakistan.

 

[Indus Priest King]

In my opinion this history can be additional to the two nation theory....even if our ancestors did not convert to Islam, coterminous Pakistan was still different....it was only the colonial entity known as British India which made "us" the same....

This is exactly my point. I have no issues with Hindus or Muslims. Rather, it's the culture of North India (Ganges toilet bowl) which is the real issue which both North Indian Hindus and North Indian Muslims share. They're both intolerant and violent communities. They're the ones who have been intolerant all this time, going all the way back to creation of the hierarchical caste system, which they plagiarized from us. Our caste system was not heirarchial and it never had the word "Sudra" in it. This was an invention of the Puranic Ganges.

The Indus Valley for over 9000 years was a peace loving, tolerant, welcoming territory. We welcomed everyone here, including them in 1947 and I have no issues with that. But accept the history of THIS land...that's my point.

Of course it did this is why Muslims in India's south region came out in open and adopted Islamic culture after Migration. It was always Islam first and its traditions as per Quran rather than local culture. This is why people created Pakistan. Otherwise they were not less Muslims sitting in Bengal or Bihar or Bombay or Assam.

You are not well versed in the history. Please get your facts correct.

First off, where did all the Hindus of the Indus Valley mainly live? Punjab and Sindh. The migration of Hindus from Sindh and Punjab began AFTER violence erupted in Jammu, when Dogra forces massacred 500,000 Muslims and forced the remaining to march towards Sialkot.

When they arrived in Sialkot, they told what had happened and this news spread like wildfire across Punjab and was sadly taken out on the remaining Sikhs and Hindus as revenge.

In Sindh, most of the Hindus that left were from Karachi, who had originally migrated from India. Interior Sindh Hindus didn't leave...out of the estimated 1 million Sindhi Hindu population, around 650,000 remained.

Your lies and your selective outrage is hilarious.

 

[Hamza913]

By Hindustan do you mean the Land of the Indus or Bharat....?

Bharat, obviously.

There aren't many Hindus left in most of the Indus.

 

[MSafir]

First off, where did all the Hindus of the Indus Valley mainly live? Punjab and Sindh. The migration of Hindus from Sindh and Punjab began AFTER violence erupted in Jammu, when Dogra forces massacred 500,000 Muslims and forced the remaining to march towards Sialkot.

What ever it is Muslims were trying to bring purity to dogra vedic and all sort of fire worshipers and water worshipers and ganga worshipers. What's your point? But finally we managed to reach delhi we ruled your fire worshippers and many of them we showed them purity otherwise you were just pagans, cow worshipers.

n Sindh, most of the Hindus that left were from Karachi, who had originally migrated from India. Interior Sindh Hindus didn't leave...out of the estimated 1 million Sindhi Hindu population, around 650,000 remained

I don't care, for me all of you were same. Fire water and what not worshipers. You should be thankful to Islam that we kept you like our brothers and showed you light of knowledge.

 

[Hamza913]

I question your commitment to Islam if something as basic as our actual past somehow shakes the foundation of your faith or makes you feel insecure about Islam..

It doesn't, but it pisses me off to see ethnic nationalists act like Pakistan wasn't made for Muslims first and foremost, but rather this modern invention known as Indus nationalism.

Are we different to Hindustan beyond the fact that we are Muslim? Yes, but that's not the reason Pakistan was made.

It get's even worse when you get jokers like @Indus Priest King insulting Islam whilst still acting like a Pakistani patriot (as if the average in Pakistan would put up with his blasphemy), and others completely badmouthing Muhajirs and Afghan refugees who are a part of our society like every other group.

 

[TMA]

It doesn't, but it pisses me off to see ethnic nationalists act like Pakistan wasn't made for Muslims first and foremost, but rather this modern invention known as Indus nationalism.

Are we different to Hindustan beyond the fact that we are Muslim? Yes, but that's not the reason Pakistan was made.

It get's even worse when you get jokers like @Indus Priest King insulting Islam whilst still acting like a Pakistani patriot (as if the average in Pakistan would put up with his blasphemy), and others completely badmouthing Muhajirs and Afghan refugees who are a part of our society like every other group.

Muhajirs are those who emigrated, their children should not use this term to define themselves, but take up the respective identities of those people whom they migrated into...
Afghan refugees ought NOT to be part of Pakistani society and should be honorably repatriated....

 

[Hamza913]

Waliqum Salam

Sorry to end with that urdu liner, I take it back. I agree with you but these so called intellectuals come out suddenly from nowhere and forget the sacrifice of those millions on both sides during partition. Those people sacrificed or forced to sacrifice are today insulted on this forum. I have to be straight as this is what I felt. They did not sacrifice to claim or glorify some Vedas or sanskrit.

If in the end Muslims in the subcontinent had to define themselves as some Veda reader or Fire worshipper then there was no need to create Pakistan at all there are plenty in India and would have done it openly. And people who lived in interior Pakistan did not suffer at all, they got all the free nation to boast with.

Unfortunately this is the only reason why Indian call us people with problem with identity because no one knows why Pakistan was created. I have no problem with any one trying to tell about his history but if that person says I should go back to bihar and all then this is something beyond limits. We all know Pakistan remained a mixed ethnic group due to invasions and at this point of time it sheer stupidity to even talk about DNA. Even Monkeys have 99% DNA similar to Humans, so are we monkey? This is not how things go. We are what we follow that's it. I am pretty damn sure the guy who called me to go back is neither a Muslim nor any Hindu or veda follower who could read any Veda. he should change the way he talks.

Tc!

Exactly, our Pakistani identity is based on Islam first and foremost, this Indus nationalism stuff is a modern invention and has nothing to do with being Pakistani, there are plenty of Hindustanis who also live in the Indus region, this whole movement is an ethnic/geographical one, not a national one.

I agree, discussing DNA is pointless. At the end of the day, we are all Bani Adam and we should all be following Islam first and foremost, for not only is it correct, but it would also differentiate us far more from Hindustanis than anything else could.

Afghan refugees ought NOT to be part of Pakistani society and should be honorably repatriated....

Asalamu Alaikum

Why? Many of them are well integrated and consider themselves to be Pakistani, they are also Muslim just like us. Even from an ethnic standpoint, most Afghans come from an ethnic group that is abundant in Pakistan, such as Pashtuns, Baluchis, Gujjars, Hindkos, etc.

 

[TMA]

Exactly, our Pakistani identity is based on Islam first and foremost, this Indus nationalism stuff is a modern invention and has nothing to do with being Pakistani, there are plenty of Hindustanis who also live in the Indus region, this whole movement is an ethnic/geographical one, not a national one.

I agree, discussing DNA is pointless. At the end of the day, we are all Bani Adam and we should all be following Islam first and foremost, for not only is it correct, but it would also differentiate us far more from Hindustanis than anything else could.

Islam does not negate the previous identities, it comes not to exterminate but to purify...if you don't wish to learn about that is fine, but let others learn....

Indus nationalism, although I personally don't like the term as it is open to misuse, refers to ALL of Pakistan, not just Sindh....as the river Indus runs through ALL of Pakistan....

Exactly, our Pakistani identity is based on Islam first and foremost, this Indus nationalism stuff is a modern invention and has nothing to do with being Pakistani, there are plenty of Hindustanis who also live in the Indus region, this whole movement is an ethnic/geographical one, not a national one.

I agree, discussing DNA is pointless. At the end of the day, we are all Bani Adam and we should all be following Islam first and foremost, for not only is it correct, but it would also differentiate us far more from Hindustanis than anything else could.



Asalamu Alaikum

Why? Many of them are well integrated and consider themselves to be Pakistani, they are also Muslim just like us. Even from an ethnic standpoint, most Afghans come from an ethnic group that is abundant in Pakistan, such as Pashtuns, Baluchis, Gujjars, Hindkos, etc.

Wa alaikum Assalaam
Why?

1.Afghanistan does not and has not accepted Pakistan since 1947. Your muslim neighbour despises the fact you exist as a nation called Pakistan.
2.Afghanistan has been in a cold war with Pakistan basically since 1947 (except for a few years).
3. Refugees are not legal immigrants but persons who are to return to their homeland whenever possible....
4. They can consider themselves whatever they want, if they truly accept Pakistan, then they ought to return and RE-APPLY as LEGAL IMMIGRANTS, this will allow proper vetting....
5. Does not matter most refugees are Pukhtoon, the Afghan Pukhtoons in Afghanistan have showed extreme dislike to the existence of Pakistan and betrayed their ethnic kin to the British....

Pakistan can survive Bharat and "Indus Nationalism" and learning about her non Islamic history, but what she CANNOT survive, are millions of people from a country which has never accepted you and is in a state of cold war with you...

This is not about individuals but nations, Pakistan needs to protect herself demographically, even if there was no terrorism emanating from Afghanistan....

 

[MSafir]

Muhajirs are those who emigrated, their children should not use this term to define themselves, but take up the respective identities of those people whom they migrated into...

What kind of logic is this? People emigrated only because of the reason that is to accept the way of living as described in Quran not in Ved or Poran. Even in India the muslims lived with a different identity. Otherwise all of us would be worshiping chanting mantras doing soorya namaskar.

You should know that in India there was this surya namaskar controversy. Muslims immediately denied not to practice it. For muslim it's not allowed be it tradition of the land.

 

[PAKISTANFOREVER]

Stupid rant. Being a Muslim it definitely changes the fact and the fact is: the reason whole Muslims in the sub continent demanded Pakistan irrespective of their cultural background. What congestion do people in Hayderabad have with fire worshipers that the Nawab there supported the cause of Pakistan? He supported it only because he was Muslim, nothing else.




Listen you dude, derogatory language was used against me here I was called here Muahajir and was asked to go back. I am not even interested in this topic or what ruins say, least interested here. Though I respect it but its irrelevant to me. But if some one says that I should go back to Bihar or Utter Pradesh is something I am not going to accept.

One should hold himself from making such disgraceful remarks.

If ALL Muslims in the so called "subcontinent" demanded Pakistan, then there would be no such thing as "india Muslims".