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Stone Age Soanian Culture (Ancient Pakistan II)

It doesn't, but it pisses me off to see ethnic nationalists act like Pakistan wasn't made for Muslims first and foremost, but rather this modern invention known as Indus nationalism.

Are we different to Hindustan beyond the fact that we are Muslim? Yes, but that's not the reason Pakistan was made.

It get's even worse when you get jokers like @Indus Priest King insulting Islam whilst still acting like a Pakistani patriot (as if the average in Pakistan would put up with his blasphemy), and others completely badmouthing Muhajirs and Afghan refugees who are a part of our society like every other group.

Then there is also a thing called reality. Its almost like you have never stepped a foot in Pakistan.

Pakistan was not made for Muslims. And there is no such thing as "Islamic culture". It literally does not exist.

Pakistan was made to protect the existing Muslim identity of the five Provinces that make up Pakistan. The clue is in the name itself.

Muhajirs were fully expected to come and integrate with EXISTING local Muslim cultures of Punjab, Sindh, Khyber, Kashmir and Balochistan. Only concession was the usage of the Mughal language called Urdu which we would all share.
 
Islam does not negate the previous identities, it comes not to exterminate but to purify...if you don't wish to learn about that is fine, but let others learn....

Indus nationalism, although I personally don't like the term as it is open to misuse, refers to ALL of Pakistan, not just Sindh....as the river Indus runs through ALL of Pakistan....


Wa alaikum Assalaam
Why?

1.Afghanistan does not and has not accepted Pakistan since 1947. Your muslim neighbour despises the fact you exist as a nation called Pakistan.
2.Afghanistan has been in a cold war with Pakistan basically since 1947 (except for a few years).
3. Refugees are not legal immigrants but persons who are to return to their homeland whenever possible....
4. They can consider themselves whatever they want, if they truly accept Pakistan, then they ought to return and RE-APPLY as LEGAL IMMIGRANTS, this will allow proper vetting....
5. Does not matter most refugees are Pukhtoon, the Afghan Pukhtoons in Afghanistan have showed extreme dislike to the existence of Pakistan and betrayed their ethnic kin to the British....

Parts of neighbouring Hindustan also part of the Indus too you know, which is the main issue with this whole concept of Pakistan being the sole inheritor of the Indus.

1. The Afghan government are not the same as the people (other than the upper class, most Afghans do not really hold strongly negative views about Pakistan).

2. Ever since the USSR occupation of Afghanistan, all the major fighting stopped.

3. Right, but if some of them have assimilated why not give them citizenship?

4. Why not just vet them while they're actually in the country?

5. Again, not most of them.

Then there is also a thing called reality. Its almost like you have never stepped a foot in Pakistan.

Pakistan was not made for Muslims. And there is no such thing as "Islamic culture". It literally does not exist.

Pakistan was made to protect the existing Muslim identity of the five Provinces that make up Pakistan. The clue is in the name itself.

Muhajirs were fully expected to come and integrate with EXISTING local Muslim cultures of Punjab, Sindh, Khyber, Kashmir and Balochistan. Only concession was the usage of the Mughal language of Urdu which we would all share.

I've been to and lived in Pakistan for quite a bit of my life (mostly as a child though).

Yes, it was. It was called the Muslim League for a reason.

Islamic "culture" as you like to call it would just be following the Quran and the Sunnah, so yes it does exist.

Then why are there so many Muhajirs in Pakistan? Better yet, why was Bangladesh also a part of Pakistan?

No, they weren't, otherwise there would have been far more communal tensions.
 
Exactly, our Pakistani identity is based on Islam first and foremost, this Indus nationalism stuff is a modern invention and has nothing to do with being Pakistani, there are plenty of Hindustanis who also live in the Indus region, this whole movement is an ethnic/geographical one, not a national one.

I agree, discussing DNA is pointless. At the end of the day, we are all Bani Adam and we should all be following Islam first and foremost, for not only is it correct, but it would also differentiate us far more from Hindustanis than anything else could.



Asalamu Alaikum

Why? Many of them are well integrated and consider themselves to be Pakistani, they are also Muslim just like us. Even from an ethnic standpoint, most Afghans come from an ethnic group that is abundant in Pakistan, such as Pashtuns, Baluchis, Gujjars, Hindkos, etc.

Everything you said was taken up by Pakistanis until 1971, where all was proven false. The reality is Islam is not strong enough of a motivator to keep people united in one country. Besides Islam, culture and way of life are just as important.

Pakistan (wanting nothing to do with Hindus) and Bangladesh (a nation idolizing Hindus) could never be in the same country, despite a common religion.

Indian Muslims of today have even less in common with us. Those who came to Pakistan, believed so strongly in it that they left their homes or were forced to leave by Hindus. Your identity is just as Pakistani as anyone else’s.

Unfortunately what I have seen among Muhajirs/ Urdu speakers in our current time is a slip into secularism, sectarianism, and ethnic politics mainly due to MQM. Because of such organizations, Most Muhajirs ostracized themselves from Pakistani politics, culture, religious movements. With the fall of racial parties like MQM and ANP, I am hoping their support base also becomes more nationalist and supports other parties.

I am hoping for more unity among all Pakistanis.

You are 100% correct that your ethnicity should not be insulted. Most of us have no problem with you as a fellow Pakistani.
 
If ALL Muslims in the so called "subcontinent" demanded Pakistan, then there would be no such thing as "india Muslims".

Yeah and then there would be conflicts on the basis of region like right now on this thread. Bangalis would slaughter Punjabis, biharis would get irked from sindhis and so on. And this was the reason why Pakistan was created, one idendity that is Muslim. It was not specifically for Punjabis or Sindhis or Pakhtoons.

Everything you said was taken up by Pakistanis until 1971, where all was proven false. The reality is Islam is not strong enough of a motivator to keep people united in one country. Besides Islam, culture and way of life are just as important.

Pakistan was created with identity of Muslim nation or Muslim majority nation. If you after 70 years of creation of Pakistan argue that regional traditions are also important then you are late. Why because lots of Muslims who emigrated and left their regional home behind example from hayderabad or Kashmir or Rajasthan, etc would simply object to it that what was the need to leave, we were happy where so ever we were.

This is not a strong argument.
 
Yeah and then there would be conflicts on the basis of region like right now on this thread. Bangalis would slaughter Punjabis, biharis would get irked from sindhis and so on. And this was the reason why Pakistan was created, one idendity that is Muslim. It was not specifically for Punjabis or Sindhis or Pakhtoons.

By settling in our country, anyone can also be a custodian of this glorious heritage just as Arabs, Turks, Persians, Greeks, and others before.

You are a citizen of Pakistan and a Pakistani. All the pride of the previous civilizations of this land are your heritage also.

Yeah and then there would be conflicts on the basis of region like right now on this thread. Bangalis would slaughter Punjabis, biharis would get irked from sindhis and so on. And this was the reason why Pakistan was created, one idendity that is Muslim. It was not specifically for Punjabis or Sindhis or Pakhtoons.



Pakistan was created with identity of Muslim nation or Muslim majority nation. If you after 70 years of creation of Pakistan argue that regional traditions are also important then you are late. Why because lots of Muslims who emigrated and left their regional home behind example from hayderabad or Kashmir or Rajasthan, etc would simply object to it that what was the need to leave, we were happy where so ever we were.

This is not a strong argument.

These are not regional traditions, but the history of the Indus River. Your country has a history that predates Islam. Accept your fellow Pakistanis’ right to be proud of that history. Maybe one day you will also learn to appreciate it.
 
You are a citizen of Pakistan and a Pakistani. All the pride of the previous civilizations of this land are your heritage also

If you really want to talk about heritage then Muahajirs were better off with wherever they were. They came to Pakistan with only one thing in mind that is all are Muslims. I don't deny that heritage of land must be respected. Where in my whole argument I showed any disrespect, it was rather me who was asked to go back to bihar and ganga what not.
 
Everything you said was taken up by Pakistanis until 1971, where all was proven false. The reality is Islam is not strong enough of a motivator to keep people united in one country. Besides Islam, culture and way of life are just as important.

Pakistan (wanting nothing to do with Hindus) and Bangladesh (a nation idolizing Hindus) could never be in the same country, despite a common religion.

Indian Muslims of today have even less in common with us. Those who came to Pakistan, believed so strongly in it that they left their homes or were forced to leave by Hindus. Your identity is just as Pakistani as anyone else’s.

Unfortunately what I have seen among Muhajirs/ Urdu speakers in our current time is a slip into secularism, sectarianism, and ethnic politics mainly due to MQM. Because of such organizations, Most Muhajirs ostracized themselves from Pakistani politics, culture, religious movements. With the fall of racial parties like MQM and ANP, I am hoping their support base also becomes more nationalist and supports other parties.

I am hoping for more unity among all Pakistanis.

You are 100% correct that your ethnicity should not be insulted. Most of us have no problem with you as a fellow Pakistani.

Asalamu Alaikum

It still applies post 1971, the only Bengalis that advocated separatism were ethnic nationalists who valued their ethnicity over their deen, which is clear cut kufr. So yes, Islam is still a uniting factor for Muslims (provided they actually practise their religion).

As for Hindustani Muslims, again, the ones who hate Pakistanis are not practising Muslims, same with Pakistanis who hate other Pakistanis just because they aren't from the same ethnic group as them.

I'm not a Muhajir, most of my family are Gujjars from across Pakistan (mostly the Punjab, but also Azad Kashmir and KPK), with a few of them from a few generations ago being Baluchi.

If you want to get technical, yes some of my mothers family did migrate from Hindustani Punjab but that doesn't really count since Punjabis are the largest ethnicity in Pakistan.
 
Your country has a history that predates Islam. Accept your fellow Pakistanis’ right to be proud of that history.

Let me explain:
And why this region only whole south asia has a history which predates Islam. If originally I belong to central Indian region for example then it also has history which predates Islam. Now what?
 
What kind of logic is this? People emigrated only because of the reason that is to accept the way of living as described in Quran not in Ved or Poran. Even in India the muslims lived with a different identity. Otherwise all of us would be worshiping chanting mantras doing soorya namaskar.

You should know that in India there was this surya namaskar controversy. Muslims immediately denied not to practice it. For muslim it's not allowed be it tradition of the land.
By this I mean, if a Muhajir migrated to Lahore, he ought to learn the local language and customs, at least those that are not against his faith, if he went to Peshwar, he ought to learn the local language and customs,at least those that are not against his faith....
and if he does not want to learn, then at least respect them,

You know most of the people in co-terminous Pakistan circa 1947 were also Muslims...

Parts of neighbouring Hindustan also part of the Indus too you know, which is the main issue with this whole concept of Pakistan being the sole inheritor of the Indus.

1. The Afghan government are not the same as the people (other than the upper class, most Afghans do not really hold strongly negative views about Pakistan).

2. Ever since the USSR occupation of Afghanistan, all the major fighting stopped.

3. Right, but if some of them have assimilated why not give them citizenship?

4. Why not just vet them while they're actually in the country?

5. Again, not most of them.



I've been to and lived in Pakistan for quite a bit of my life (mostly as a child though).

Yes, it was. It was called the Muslim League for a reason.

Islamic "culture" as you like to call it would just be following the Quran and the Sunnah, so yes it does exist.

Then why are there so many Muhajirs in Pakistan? Better yet, why was Bangladesh also a part of Pakistan?

No, they weren't, otherwise there would have been far more communal tensions.
Nations deals with nations....
People deal with people...

I have met Afghans and I have got on well with them..individually....

1. In my experience most common Afghans at least in the UK (who come on Pakistani papers) despise Pakistan....
2. Hence the term COLD WAR....
3. Because their nation is in a cold war with Pakistan....it matters not if they speak the language...have you seen who supports PTM(TTP)? A lot of Afghan refugees who have assimilated very well...
4.Because that defeats the purpose of vetting....
5. In my experience most Afghans Pukhtoons (in the UK) hate Pakistan...they will get along personally fine with you...but when we talk about nations, they hate Pakistan.....

Like I said, nations deal with nations....it is time for Pakistan to learn from Iran on this matter......

http://www.artsrn.ualberta.ca/amcdouga/Hist347/additional rdgs/article culture imperative.pdf
@dsr478
@MSafir

By a German American convert Sheikh Dr Umar Faruq Abdullah. This is mainly concerned with Islam in America as he is an American, however its concepts can be applied globally.
By the way he is a scholar who is very Orthodox...

"For centuries, Islamic civilization harmonized indigenous forms of cultural expression with the universal norms of its sacred law. It struck a balance between temporal beauty and ageless truth and fanned a brilliant peacock’s tail of unity in diversity from the heart of China to the shores of the Atlantic. Islamic jurisprudence helped facilitate this creative genius. In history, Islam showed itself to be culturally friendly and, in that regard, has been likened to a crystal clear river. Its waters (Islam) are pure, sweet, and life-giving but—having no color of their own—reflect the bedrock (indigenous culture) over which they flow. In China, Islam looked Chinese; in Mali, it looked African. Sustained cultural relevance to distinct peoples, diverse places, and different times underlay Islam’s long success as a global civilization...
...By contrast, much contemporary Islamist rhetoric falls far short of Islam’s ancient cultural wisdom, assuming at times an unmitigated culturally predatory attitude. Such rhetoric and the movement ideologies that stand behind it have been deeply influenced by Western revolutionary dialectic and a dangerously selective retrieval and reinterpretation of Islamic scripture in that light. At the same time, however, the Islamist phenomenon is, to no small degree, a byproduct of the grave cultural dislocation and dysfunction of the contemporary Muslim world."

" For them, “culture” is a loaded word, something dangerous, inherently problematic, and “un-Islamic” (a deeply ingratiated Islamist neologism). Culture, for them, is a toxic pollutant that must necessarily be purged, since Islam and culture are mutually exclusive in their minds. Some foolishly or ahistorically regard Islamic culture—legacies like the Taj Mahal, for example—to have been chief causes of Muslim decline and fall in history. Their mindset reflects the general malaise of the modern period and the breakdown of traditional Muslim cultures, leaving chronic existential alienation and cultural dysfunction in its wake."

Parts of neighbouring Hindustan also part of the Indus too you know, which is the main issue with this whole concept of Pakistan being the sole inheritor of the Indus.

1. The Afghan government are not the same as the people (other than the upper class, most Afghans do not really hold strongly negative views about Pakistan).

2. Ever since the USSR occupation of Afghanistan, all the major fighting stopped.

3. Right, but if some of them have assimilated why not give them citizenship?

4. Why not just vet them while they're actually in the country?

5. Again, not most of them.



I've been to and lived in Pakistan for quite a bit of my life (mostly as a child though).

Yes, it was. It was called the Muslim League for a reason.

Islamic "culture" as you like to call it would just be following the Quran and the Sunnah, so yes it does exist.

Then why are there so many Muhajirs in Pakistan? Better yet, why was Bangladesh also a part of Pakistan?

No, they weren't, otherwise there would have been far more communal tensions.
A small part of Bharat is part of the Indus Land...the heart land is and was in coterminous Pakistan....
 
By this I mean, if a Muhajir migrated to Lahore, he ought to learn the local language and customs, at least those that are not against his faith, if he went to Peshwar, he ought to learn the local language and customs,at least those that are not against his faith....
and if he does not want to learn, then at least respect them

I am not talking against any language but for definitely those customs which are not according to the fath.
 
By this I mean, if a Muhajir migrated to Lahore, he ought to learn the local language and customs, at least those that are not against his faith, if he went to Peshwar, he ought to learn the local language and customs,at least those that are not against his faith....
and if he does not want to learn, then at least respect them,

He only has to learn Urdu and respect the customs of other cultures so long as they do not contradict Islam.

You know most of the people in co-terminous Pakistan circa 1947 were also Muslims...

I am aware of that.

Nations deals with nations....
People deal with people...

I have met Afghans and I have got on well with them..individually....

1. In my experience most common Afghans at least in the UK (who come on Pakistani papers) despise Pakistan....
2. Hence the term COLD WAR....
3. Because their nation is in a cold war with Pakistan....it matters not if they speak the language...have you seen who supports PTM(TTP)? A lot of Afghan refugees who have assimilated very well...
4.Because that defeats the purpose of vetting....
5. In my experience most Afghans Pukhtoons (in the UK) hate Pakistan...they will get along personally fine with you...but when we talk about nations, they hate Pakistan.....

1. In my experience most of them like Pakistanis, but dislike the Pakistani establishment, just like most Pakistanis.

2. Not applicable, it implies both nations are out to get each other without directly fighting, no such thing is occurring.

3. A lot of Pakistani Pashtuns support them too.

4. Not necessarily. Vet them, and if they don't meet the standards, send them back to Afghanistan ASAP.

5. Yeah, but most Pakistanis hate the Pakistani establishment too.

Like I said, nations deal with nations....it is time for Pakistan to learn from Iran on this matter......

http://www.artsrn.ualberta.ca/amcdouga/Hist347/additional rdgs/article culture imperative.pdf
@dsr478
@MSafir

By a German American convert Sheikh Dr Umar Faruq Abdullah. This is mainly concerned with Islam in America as he is an American, however its concepts can be applied globally.
By the way he is a scholar who is very Orthodox...

"For centuries, Islamic civilization harmonized indigenous forms of cultural expression with the universal norms of its sacred law. It struck a balance between temporal beauty and ageless truth and fanned a brilliant peacock’s tail of unity in diversity from the heart of China to the shores of the Atlantic. Islamic jurisprudence helped facilitate this creative genius. In history, Islam showed itself to be culturally friendly and, in that regard, has been likened to a crystal clear river. Its waters (Islam) are pure, sweet, and life-giving but—having no color of their own—reflect the bedrock (indigenous culture) over which they flow. In China, Islam looked Chinese; in Mali, it looked African. Sustained cultural relevance to distinct peoples, diverse places, and different times underlay Islam’s long success as a global civilization...
...By contrast, much contemporary Islamist rhetoric falls far short of Islam’s ancient cultural wisdom, assuming at times an unmitigated culturally predatory attitude. Such rhetoric and the movement ideologies that stand behind it have been deeply influenced by Western revolutionary dialectic and a dangerously selective retrieval and reinterpretation of Islamic scripture in that light. At the same time, however, the Islamist phenomenon is, to no small degree, a byproduct of the grave cultural dislocation and dysfunction of the contemporary Muslim world."

" For them, “culture” is a loaded word, something dangerous, inherently problematic, and “un-Islamic” (a deeply ingratiated Islamist neologism). Culture, for them, is a toxic pollutant that must necessarily be purged, since Islam and culture are mutually exclusive in their minds. Some foolishly or ahistorically regard Islamic culture—legacies like the Taj Mahal, for example—to have been chief causes of Muslim decline and fall in history. Their mindset reflects the general malaise of the modern period and the breakdown of traditional Muslim cultures, leaving chronic existential alienation and cultural dysfunction in its wake."

I highly disagree.

Wherever Islam has gone, it has either had to change the indigenous cultures or be warped into something completely different, sometimes even both occurs.

It also helped facilitate more unity among Muslims, e.g many Muslims of different ethnic groups/nationalities all use a generally similar alphabet. If Islam is to change with every culture it meets, the Ummah will become a broken and disjointed mess (even more so than it already is).

This doesn't mean you have to give up all aspects of your culture, you just have to purge it of everything that is haram and make Islam and your culture inseparable (the Pashtuns have done this beautifully, as have the Arabs).

The Taj Mahal is a shrine, and as a result haram. So much for your guy being orthodox (although, he might just be ignorant about that).

A small part of Bharat is part of the Indus Land...the heart land is and was in coterminous Pakistan....

I agree, but it's pretty big when compared to modern day Pakistan (easily a sizeable chunk of our nation in terms of area).
 
He only has to learn Urdu and respect the customs of other cultures so long as they do not contradict Islam.



I am aware of that.



1. In my experience most of them like Pakistanis, but dislike the Pakistani establishment, just like most Pakistanis.

2. Not applicable, it implies both nations are out to get each other without directly fighting, no such thing is occurring.

3. A lot of Pakistani Pashtuns support them too.

4. Not necessarily. Vet them, and if they don't meet the standards, send them back to Afghanistan ASAP.

5. Yeah, but most Pakistanis hate the Pakistani establishment too.



I highly disagree.

Wherever Islam has gone, it has either had to change the indigenous cultures or be warped into something completely different, sometimes even both occurs.

It also helped facilitate more unity among Muslims, e.g many Muslims of different ethnic groups/nationalities all use a generally similar alphabet. If Islam is to change with every culture it meets, the Ummah will become a broken and disjointed mess (even more so than it already is).

This doesn't mean you have to give up all aspects of your culture, you just have to purge it of everything that is haram and make Islam and your culture inseparable (the Pashtuns have done this beautifully, as have the Arabs).

The Taj Mahal is a shrine, and as a result haram. So much for your guy being orthodox (although, he might just be ignorant about that).



I agree, but it's pretty big when compared to modern day Pakistan (easily a sizeable chunk of our nation in terms of area).
With greatest respect, I will take the opinion of a Scholar of Islam above yours.....

Here he is teaching the Ashari/Maturidi Aqeedah of AhlSunnah Wa AlJamah....

The audio is dodgy but still worth it...

He only has to learn Urdu and respect the customs of other cultures so long as they do not contradict Islam.



I am aware of that.



1. In my experience most of them like Pakistanis, but dislike the Pakistani establishment, just like most Pakistanis.

2. Not applicable, it implies both nations are out to get each other without directly fighting, no such thing is occurring.

3. A lot of Pakistani Pashtuns support them too.

4. Not necessarily. Vet them, and if they don't meet the standards, send them back to Afghanistan ASAP.

5. Yeah, but most Pakistanis hate the Pakistani establishment too.



I highly disagree.

Wherever Islam has gone, it has either had to change the indigenous cultures or be warped into something completely different, sometimes even both occurs.

It also helped facilitate more unity among Muslims, e.g many Muslims of different ethnic groups/nationalities all use a generally similar alphabet. If Islam is to change with every culture it meets, the Ummah will become a broken and disjointed mess (even more so than it already is).

This doesn't mean you have to give up all aspects of your culture, you just have to purge it of everything that is haram and make Islam and your culture inseparable (the Pashtuns have done this beautifully, as have the Arabs).

The Taj Mahal is a shrine, and as a result haram. So much for your guy being orthodox (although, he might just be ignorant about that).



I agree, but it's pretty big when compared to modern day Pakistan (easily a sizeable chunk of our nation in terms of area).
Ahhh nice try with the 'establishment'... er no! And No!
They do not accept the EXISTENCE of a nation called PAKISTAN. It is not JUST the Establishment but the whole NATION...Their borders should include upto Attock and Balochistan...where does Afghanistan get these borders from despising an Establishment?

Nations deal with nations, people with people...you as a person are more than welcome to treat Afghan refugees as you want...but as a Nation, Pakistan needs to protect herself from a Muslim neighbour who has been harming her since 1947....

He only has to learn Urdu and respect the customs of other cultures so long as they do not contradict Islam.



I am aware of that.



1. In my experience most of them like Pakistanis, but dislike the Pakistani establishment, just like most Pakistanis.

2. Not applicable, it implies both nations are out to get each other without directly fighting, no such thing is occurring.

3. A lot of Pakistani Pashtuns support them too.

4. Not necessarily. Vet them, and if they don't meet the standards, send them back to Afghanistan ASAP.

5. Yeah, but most Pakistanis hate the Pakistani establishment too.



I highly disagree.

Wherever Islam has gone, it has either had to change the indigenous cultures or be warped into something completely different, sometimes even both occurs.

It also helped facilitate more unity among Muslims, e.g many Muslims of different ethnic groups/nationalities all use a generally similar alphabet. If Islam is to change with every culture it meets, the Ummah will become a broken and disjointed mess (even more so than it already is).

This doesn't mean you have to give up all aspects of your culture, you just have to purge it of everything that is haram and make Islam and your culture inseparable (the Pashtuns have done this beautifully, as have the Arabs).

The Taj Mahal is a shrine, and as a result haram. So much for your guy being orthodox (although, he might just be ignorant about that).



I agree, but it's pretty big when compared to modern day Pakistan (easily a sizeable chunk of our nation in terms of area).
Did you read his paper by chance or what I just posted?

He only has to learn Urdu and respect the customs of other cultures so long as they do not contradict Islam.



I am aware of that.



1. In my experience most of them like Pakistanis, but dislike the Pakistani establishment, just like most Pakistanis.

2. Not applicable, it implies both nations are out to get each other without directly fighting, no such thing is occurring.

3. A lot of Pakistani Pashtuns support them too.

4. Not necessarily. Vet them, and if they don't meet the standards, send them back to Afghanistan ASAP.

5. Yeah, but most Pakistanis hate the Pakistani establishment too.



I highly disagree.

Wherever Islam has gone, it has either had to change the indigenous cultures or be warped into something completely different, sometimes even both occurs.

It also helped facilitate more unity among Muslims, e.g many Muslims of different ethnic groups/nationalities all use a generally similar alphabet. If Islam is to change with every culture it meets, the Ummah will become a broken and disjointed mess (even more so than it already is).

This doesn't mean you have to give up all aspects of your culture, you just have to purge it of everything that is haram and make Islam and your culture inseparable (the Pashtuns have done this beautifully, as have the Arabs).

The Taj Mahal is a shrine, and as a result haram. So much for your guy being orthodox (although, he might just be ignorant about that).



I agree, but it's pretty big when compared to modern day Pakistan (easily a sizeable chunk of our nation in terms of area).

His bit starts from 16 mins...
 
Islamic "culture" as you like to call it would just be following the Quran and the Sunnah, so yes it does exist.
And how many countries follow this "culture" that you seem to have invented?

Then why are there so many Muhajirs in Pakistan? Better yet, why was Bangladesh also a part of Pakistan?
The majority of Muslims from India stayed in their native lands. Bangladesh was never meant to be part of Pakistan under the original plan. But the fact that they became independent disproves your "Muslim homeland" theory.
 
Asalamu Alaikum

It still applies post 1971, the only Bengalis that advocated separatism were ethnic nationalists who valued their ethnicity over their deen, which is clear cut kufr. So yes, Islam is still a uniting factor for Muslims (provided they actually practise their religion).

As for Hindustani Muslims, again, the ones who hate Pakistanis are not practising Muslims, same with Pakistanis who hate other Pakistanis just because they aren't from the same ethnic group as them.

I'm not a Muhajir, most of my family are Gujjars from across Pakistan (mostly the Punjab, but also Azad Kashmir and KPK), with a few of them from a few generations ago being Baluchi.

If you want to get technical, yes some of my mothers family did migrate from Hindustani Punjab but that doesn't really count since Punjabis are the largest ethnicity in Pakistan.

Wa alaikum Assalam brother.

You are 100% correct. I’m not disagreeing with anything you wrote. There are different aspects to Islam than the mere religion itself.

Not all Muslims share the same goals and aspirations, and forcing said Muslims to be part of the same nation is problematic. The basic differences between Pakistan and Bangladesh were too great to bridge. It’s a civilizational and historical issue.

The issue of MQM and ANP is also similar. These groups never accepted themselves as Pakistani and will take any action to lessen the role of Islam on our society.

Pakistan is an Islamic society, nothing will change that. We can only unify with those who share our ideals and cultural values, hence why Pakistan and Kashmir identify with each other.

Our whole non-Islamic history also has been leading us to this eventuality. It was inevitable that we would become one of the strongest Muslim nations and now the spotlight is on us to go to even higher heights.
 
Pakistan was created with identity of Muslim nation or Muslim majority nation. If you after 70 years of creation of Pakistan argue that regional traditions are also important then you are late. Why because lots of Muslims who emigrated and left their regional home behind example from hayderabad or Kashmir or Rajasthan, etc would simply object to it that what was the need to leave, we were happy where so ever we were.

Regional traditions ARE important. Have you ever been to Pakistan? Pakistan was not "created" for Indian Muhajirs. Sorry about your loss, but you were welcomed to an independent nation so you would not have to be subject to tyranny as we see in Kashmir today. At no point were Muhajirs to define a new identity for the 95% natives who live in the Indus region. You are seriously deluded if you think that's the case.
 

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