Stone Age Soanian Culture (Ancient Pakistan II)

[Hamza913]

Wa alaikum Assalam brother.

You are 100% correct. I’m not disagreeing with anything you wrote. There are different aspects to Islam than the mere religion itself.

Not all Muslims share the same goals and aspirations, and forcing said Muslims to be part of the same nation is problematic. The basic differences between Pakistan and Bangladesh were too great to bridge. It’s a civilizational and historical issue.

The issue of MQM and ANP is also similar. These groups never accepted themselves as Pakistani and will take any action to lessen the role of Islam on our society.

Pakistan is an Islamic society, nothing will change that. We can only unify with those who share our ideals and cultural values, hence why Pakistan and Kashmir identify with each other.

Our whole non-Islamic history also has been leading us to this eventuality. It was inevitable that we would become one of the strongest Muslim nations and now the spotlight is on us to go to even higher heights.

I wouldn't call Pakistan an Islamic society, yes many of us are great Muslims but many of us are also terrible Muslims.

Our society as a whole definitely has some brushing up to do.

And how many countries follow this "culture" that you seem to have invented?


The majority of Muslims from India stayed in their native lands. Bangladesh was never meant to be part of Pakistan under the original plan. But the fact that they became independent disproves your "Muslim homeland" theory.

You were the one that chalked up the term, not me.

Anyway, loads of people follow the Quran and Sunnah, and those of us that do seem to have more in common with each other than each one of us does with others that come from the same background as us (that's my personal experience anyway).

The ones far away from the border, yes, but the ones close to it went to Pakistan almost entirely.

Not at all, in fact it proves it even further. Many of the Bengalis simply weren't (and many still aren't) Muslim first, they subscribed to the theory of ethnic nationalism that you yourself are promoting. If everyone thought your way, Pakistan would become balkanised.

Ahhh nice try with the 'establishment'... er no! And No!
They do not accept the EXISTENCE of a nation called PAKISTAN. It is not JUST the Establishment but the whole NATION...Their borders should include upto Attock and Balochistan...where does Afghanistan get these borders from despising an Establishment?

Nations deal with nations, people with people...you as a person are more than welcome to treat Afghan refugees as you want...but as a Nation, Pakistan needs to protect herself from a Muslim neighbour who has been harming her since 1947....


Did you read his paper by chance or what I just posted?

Uh, yes. I've met and know many Afghans very well. Some of them do feel robbed of Baluchistan, KPK and FATA but most of them have gotten over it.

As I've said numerous times, the Afghan government doesn't reflect the people.

Only the bit you posted.

 

[MSafir]

Regional traditions ARE important. Have you ever been to Pakistan? Pakistan was not "created" for Indian Muhajirs. Sorry about your loss, but you were welcomed to an independent nation so you would not have to be subject to tyranny as we see in Kashmir today. At no point were Muhajirs to define a new identity for the 95% natives who live in the Indus region. You are seriously deluded if you think that's the case.

You are entitled to your thinking and I am entitled to my thinking but the facts are facts and every one knows why Pakistan was created. You may wish to have arrogance out of nothing who got a nation for free without any effort and hard work and on sacrifice of other fellow Muslims. Empty utensils make louder voices, like you are.

..

 

[UnitedPak]

Anyway, loads of people follow the Quran and Sunnah, and those of us that do seem to have more in common with each other than each one of us does with others that come from the same background as us (that's my personal experience anyway).

You are entitled to your thinking and I am entitled to my thinking but the facts are facts and every one knows why Pakistan was created. You may wish to have arrogance out of nothing who got a nation for free without any effort and hard work and on sacrifice of other fellow Muslims. Empty utensils make louder voices, like you are.

..

Well, that's your observations, opinions and delusions but this is certainly not what Rehmat had in mind when he wrote "in the name of our common heritage, on behalf of our thirty million Muslim brethren who live in ...the five Northern units of India."

No Bengal, no Indian muslims, no "muslim homeland", no clean slates, nothing about giving up said heritage to Indians.

He was quite specific about the "meaning" of Pakstan

 

[UnitedPak]

Five northern units of India? Oh well so you were an Indian before Pakistani as per whatever chit you posted. I am impressed as that makes you an Indian muslim before becoming a Pakistani.

Once again you try to derail an argument with your nonsense. Yes it was called INDIA during the British Raj. Getting tired of your blatant ganga tactics.

Also, that's a leaflet by Chaudhry Ali Rehmat, the guy who coined the name of Pakistan.

 

[Hamza913]

Well, that's your observations, opinions and delusions but this is certainly not what Rehmat had in mind when he wrote "in the name of our common heritage, on behalf of our thirty million Muslim brethren who live in ...the five Northern units of India."

No Bengal, no Indian muslims, no "muslim homeland", no clean slates, nothing about giving up said heritage to Indians.

He was quite specific about the "meaning" of Pakstan

One Robin does not make a Summer, Rehmat is not indicative of the Muslim League's objective.

And even he still mentions Muslims in the first paragraph of his pamphlet, even though there were (and still are) non-Muslims in Pakistan (not that there's anything wrong with that of course).

 

[UnitedPak]

One Robin does not make a Summer, Rehmat is not indicative of the Muslim League's objective.

And even he still mentions Muslims in the first paragraph of his pamphlet, even though there were (and still are) non-Muslims in Pakistan (not that there's anything wrong with that of course).

Seriously bro. Rehmat was the founder of Pakistan movement. Its written as clear as day what Pakistan movement was about. It's literally in the name, yet all you see is a homeland for Quran and Sunnah? It's beyond a joke now.

 

[MSafir]

Once again you try to derail an argument with your nonsense. Yes it was called INDIA during the British Raj. Getting tired of your blatant ganga tactics.

Also, that's a leaflet by Chaudhry Ali Rehmat, the guy who coined the name of Pakistan.

You are low on facts and arguments, and by the way Ch Rehmat was born in Hoshiarpur, India who was disappointed of the fact that Pakistan is smaller in size due to non inclusion of Hindu Punjab and Hindu administered Kashmir as he thought. This proves the fact that Muslim factor was more important than the ethnic one.

 

[TMA]

I wouldn't call Pakistan an Islamic society, yes many of us are great Muslims but many of us are also terrible Muslims.

Our society as a whole definitely has some brushing up to do.



You were the one that chalked up the term, not me.

Anyway, loads of people follow the Quran and Sunnah, and those of us that do seem to have more in common with each other than each one of us does with others that come from the same background as us (that's my personal experience anyway).

The ones far away from the border, yes, but the ones close to it went to Pakistan almost entirely.

Not at all, in fact it proves it even further. Many of the Bengalis simply weren't (and many still aren't) Muslim first, they subscribed to the theory of ethnic nationalism that you yourself are promoting. If everyone thought your way, Pakistan would become balkanised.



Uh, yes. I've met and know many Afghans very well. Some of them do feel robbed of Baluchistan, KPK and FATA but most of them have gotten over it.

As I've said numerous times, the Afghan government doesn't reflect the people.

Only the bit you posted.

Like I said Nations deal with Nations, people with people...

I request that you make time and watch the video series on Aqeedad and on the cultural imperative... and also read the whole article...that way you can make an informed opinion..

 

[UnitedPak]

You are low on facts and arguments, and by the way Ch Rehmat was born in Hoshiarpur, India who was disappointed of the fact that Pakistan is smaller in size due to non inclusion of Hindu Punjab and Hindu administered Kashmir as he thought. This proves the fact that Muslim factor was more important than the ethnic one.

He was a Punjabi Muslim born in British India, but you know what... Take this one for Team Ganga. I know you freaks love claiming everything for your lacking nation.

Your posts still makes no sense. The British partitioned Punjab, not the Muslim league.

 

[Pan-Islamic-Pakistan]

Five northern units of India? Oh well so you were an Indian before Pakistani as per whatever chit you posted. I am fascinated as that makes you an Indian muslim before becoming a Pakistani.

You are not going to win any points by twisting logic. Republic of India and India of the British Raj were two different states.

Hoshiarpur is the northernmost region of East Punjab bordering Kashmir and used to be a Muslim majority area before Indian Sikhs and Hindus massacred its Muslim population to make way for India’s occupation.

Your insinuation that those people are Indians is an insult to them and Pakistanis, Kashmiris everywhere.

I wouldn't call Pakistan an Islamic society, yes many of us are great Muslims but many of us are also terrible Muslims.

Our society as a whole definitely has some brushing up to do.

Yes, this is true. No disagreement here.

I term Pakistan as an Islamic country based on the constitution and our laws. This is especially true when measured against most other Muslim nations which are ethnic states. There are only three Islamic Republics in the world, the other two are Iran and Afghanistan.

The ideology of Pakistan is Islam. Our founding principles are the laws of the Prophet saws, as said by Quaid e Azam. All Pakistanis agree on this basic principle.

Pakistan can both be a refuge for Muslims escaping oppression and tyranny, and the beginning of a concrete example for the rest of the world of a progressive Muslim society in equilibrium with its historic past and modernity. This was Allama Iqbal’s way of thinking.

In sha Allah, I think we can all come to a common ground of the paramount role of Islam in our society and future. However, I ask that we also study and learn from our pre-Islamic past as well which has all lead to this point.

 

[Hamza913]

I term Pakistan as an Islamic country based on the constitution and our laws. This is especially true when measured against most other Muslim nations which are ethnic states. There are only three Islamic Republics in the world, the other two are Iran and Afghanistan.

The ideology of Pakistan is Islam. Our founding principles are the laws of the Prophet saws, as said by Quaid e Azam. All Pakistanis agree on this basic principle.

Pakistan can both be a refuge for Muslims escaping oppression and tyranny, and the beginning of a concrete example for the rest of the world of a progressive Muslim society in equilibrium with its historic past and modernity. This was Allama Iqbal’s way of thinking.

In sha Allah, I think we can all come to a common ground of the paramount role of Islam in our society and future. However, I ask that we also study and learn from our pre-Islamic past as well which has all lead to this point.

We are a pseudo-Islamic state, i.e we only implement the parts of Sharia that we like, whilst we ignore the rest. Many other Muslim countries do this, we are nothing special in that regard.

Inshallah, we will become much more Islamic in the nearby future.

Seriously bro. Rehmat was the founder of Pakistan movement. Its written as clear as day what Pakistan movement was about. It's literally in the name, yet all you see is a homeland for Quran and Sunnah? It's beyond a joke now.

Rehmat was also the one who concocted this map, with several independent Muslims nations across the sub-continent (it was a rough idea hence why it's a little odd in terms of borders):

Was this idea ever realised? No. Clearly he wasn't as integral as you think he was.

I request that you make time and watch the video series on Aqeedad and on the cultural imperative... and also read the whole article...that way you can make an informed opinion..

I already have an opinion thank you, but I might watch it later when I'm bored.

 

[TMA]

We are a pseudo-Islamic state, i.e we only implement the parts of Sharia that we like, whilst we ignore the rest. Many other Muslim countries do this, we are nothing special in that regard.

Inshallah, we will become much more Islamic in the nearby future.



Rehmat was also the one who concocted this map, with several independent Muslims nations across the sub-continent (it was a rough idea hence why it's a little odd in terms of borders):

Was this idea ever realised? No. Clearly he wasn't as integral as you think he was.



I already have an opinion thank you, but I might watch it later when I'm bored.

There is a difference between informed opinion and just opinion...but that is up to you....

And coming back to the topic...let those who wish to learn about their history learn it, and those that do not wish to learn it, don't. But please don't think ill of those wishing to learn about it...(although you can think what you want)

 

[Hamza913]

There is a difference between informed opinion and just opinion...but that is up to you....

And coming back to the topic...let those who wish to learn about their history learn it, and those that do not wish to learn it, don't. But please don't think ill of those wishing to learn about it...(although you can think what you want)

I'm already informed enough, thank you.

I never discouraged learning history, I discourage people being a bunch of ethnic nationalists based on history, because it's such a moronic idea.

 

[UnitedPak]

I never discouraged learning history, I discourage people being a bunch of ethnic nationalists based on history, because it's such a moronic idea.

But ethnicity has played a major role. You might think it's stupid, but its reality the world over and Pakistan is no different. In the process you even trashed Pakistani culture, giving preference to "Quran and Sunnah" as our culture, which once again is not based on reality or the original thinking of the founding fathers of Pakistan.

And do note how you ended up supporting and assisting the now-banned false flagger in your arguments.

I appreciate that Islam takes more importance in your views, but I dont get why you want to derail and delegitimize Pakistan's heritage in the process. You are paving the way for Indians to call us illegitimate invaders in our lands. Kudos to you.

 

[Hamza913]

But ethnicity has played a major role. You might think it's stupid, but its reality the world over and Pakistan is no different. In the process you even trashed Pakistani culture, giving preference to "Quran and Sunnah" as our culture, which once again is not based on reality or the original thinking of the founding fathers of Pakistan.

And do note how you ended up supporting and assisting the now-banned false flagger in your arguments.

I appreciate that Islam takes more importance in your views, but I dont get why you want to derail and delegitimize Pakistan's heritage in the process. You are paving the way for Indians to call us illegitimate invaders in our lands. Kudos to you.

No it hasn't, otherwise the Punjab wouldn't be split between Pakistan and Hindustan, the Muhajirs wouldn't have come to Pakistan, all the Brahmins and Parsis would have moved to Pakistan (they are genetically more similar to Pakistanis than other Hindustanis), etc.

I don't care what anyone else thinks, Quran and Sunnah takes precedence over all else for me, including my ethnic culture.

Don't care who I ended up supporting, these are my views.

I don't care what they think about us, their views about Pakistan/Pakistanis are already pretty moronic.