Split Discussion: Muhajir Identity

[474474]

No , he doesn't , my friend ... He is one of the migrants too with a very broad genetic poll like me ... We all want the ethnic lines to blur so we can head towards peace and prosperity ... Nobody enjoys when 8-10 people are killed daily in Karachi or the violence initiates against a specific race because of the venom by a few political parties ... Learn to take criticism as criticism and not as abuse , he has spoken against the frontier Gandhi and all those ANP leaders who were against the creation of Pakistan ...



Well , that certainly is one the issues causing this divide ... There should be merit based selection in every institutions and not on race , color or blood ... Talking of Sindhi , well everyone learns Urdu right ?

There a logical explanation behind Urdu, and the main thing is that Urdu wasn't our ancestral language either that's the main cause of bitter ness

 

[Armstrong]

The main thing is, there are quotas for Sindhis in the educational system, rather than merit based, also people from all corners of Pakistan are forced to learn Sindhi (I respect it as a language, but nothing should be forced)

We've got the same thing over here ! My cousins, who settled in AJK & are AJK Nationals, got into UET based on their Nationality despite having markedly less scores than a few thousand Punjabis from here. The same can be said about others from up North or from Balochistan; but no worries ! If a brother is under developed & comes from a less financially providing background the onus is on the rest of us to do everything, within reasonable bounds, to faciliate them as best as possible. I've got no qualms with the quota system; if someone from Quetta is selected in preference to someone from Lahore when applying to a whole host of public Universities then thats fine by me.

Merit is a determinant between 'equals' & the people from underdeveloped & underprivileged areas haven't had anything close to the access to facilities etc. to compete with us on an equal footing. They must, thus, be treated equitably instead which means 'equal in value' !

 

[ice_man]

MQM had no way to gain power except use ethnicity card! this was encouraged by Zia ul haq inorder to divide the PPP and jamaat vote. Qasba colony incident never happened. its time to end politics of ethnicty and hatred and unite as pakistanis! All MQM does is always make people hate either punjabis,pathans or balochis of liyari or sindhis of interior sindh!

 

[Armstrong]

@Secur : Yaraa with only a handful of Universities in Pakistan, being on top is hardly exceptional ! Even LUMS, which is a pretty darn good University, doesn't come close to some of the best Universities in South Asia (the top 20) never mind the rest of the world. At any rate our own actions are killing the already present institutions.

Our ancestral village goes by the name of 'Khreu' which is near Gulmarg which in turn is about a 100 Km from Srinagar.

And I do agree with your assessment on the probable benefits that more, smaller provinces will accrue to Pakistan from an ethnic perspective; believe me my own thoughts parallel yours when I advocated the same. I'd even go a step further by advocating that two local languages are taught in each of these provinces; which means one would be, as a general rule, the mother tongue of the child under question, assuming that it isn't Urdu, wheras the other is bound to be that of another ethnicity - This would breed ethnic harmony as well because identity is intrinsically linked to languages & if one can speak another's language then one would be able to have not only invaluable insight into that communities fears, ambitions, inhibitions & plain disposition but also an ability to find acceptance amongst them as someone who they can relate to much more than otherwise & hence open up to or at least have a soft-corner for !

 

[Secur]

There a logical explanation behind Urdu, and the main thing is that Urdu wasn't our ancestral language either that's the main cause of bitter ness

I agree that a particular language shouldn't be forced on anyone , just make it an optional subject with extra marks or something ... But still it isn't such a big issue as you are thinking it to be , cmon well we studied Sindhi as they studied Urdu right ?

 

[somebozo]

What contribution did we make? Serious-fcking-ly?

Innovations like bori band lash, longest running telephonic speeches, live mujra during political speeches, need I say more.

More than what your worthless existence will in a million years, awkat mein reh

sure.

And btw, you seem to know too much about the reasons of migration I assume you were there to witness it? You turn out to be born here just by chance, and then run away to Saudi to serve the Arabs? We can all see how youre the pride of Pakistan

Better than living like British Bulldog and conduct telephonic speeches from a toilet in London!

 

[haviZsultan]

There a logical explanation behind Urdu, and the main thing is that Urdu wasn't our ancestral language either that's the main cause of bitter ness

I wish to apologize for this as I am by birth a muhajir but I am doing everything to set things right and to adress the criminal stance our family and khandaan here in Pakistan has been following which is particularly insensitive and callous to others. I am learning Pashto and I can speak okay... and understand it though still a lot of progress can be made. Other than my love for Pashtuns a reason I am adopting Pashtun identity is to send a message of solidarity.

... our urdu language is being imposed on others. Indeed. But if you look at it from another angle you will notice that Urdu was basically only meant to be a neutral language which would belong to know ethnic group in Pakistan at all. Very much like Persian used in the courts and by the aristocracy of the Mughals. It was an outside language being imposed but it belonged to no particular ethnic group so no one could claim the language favored one group No one actually knew the migrants that came from India would fail to integrate when they arrived and develop a separate identity. It is our parents/uncles mistake.

Now unfortunately everything is favoring the urdu-speakers. It is unfortunate that even people who declare themselves patriots like @American Pakistani do not see this, even though he is outside the country which should open up peoples minds. I am trying to argue with these people and make them see how our votes for MQM are destroying the beautiful bond between ethnic groups and our real culture... which is basically lucknowi, gujrati, marathi, bihari etc. This collective identity called muhajir is actually a derogatory term meaning pilgrim.

I don't think all are bad particularly @Secur and lots of others though the way my family uses derogatory terms and looks down its nose at other people has left in me quite a bitterness because all ethnic groups, all people in this country are our people and to be loved and cherished. We didn't make Pakistan to make it into a Muhajir empire.

My own analysis. Check ou owaisi hate speech in India. There will be some fight at some point and that's when more indian Muslims maybe forced to move out.

Owaisi is a personal friend and he has been the only one supporting families that RSS killers murdered in Hyderabad. Our family and friends in Hyderabad support him and the Azad Deccan Movement fully. Owaisi still considers himself Indian... you want to make the situation worse attack him. But you're going to bear the consequences. Hyderabadi Muslims have a vast variety of reasons to be angry and they are pissed. I won't say all but the people we have back there are.

 

[haviZsultan]

well MQM wasnt present when bengalis decided to ethnically separate themselves and form bangladesh, neither balochis thought about creating separate country

now dont say coming here, bangladeshis were right, urdu speakers and mohajirs are worng

calling a spade a spade is not a crime

Darkinsky you have been avoiding comment on Altaf's speech like a rooster running around in circles in my ancestral barey gaon near Lucknow. Why you don't comment on the potential for it to happen again? Why you don't admit Altaf can do it again.

It is in these peoples interests that we continue to see ourselves as oppressed, alag-salag ethnic groups. Its how they win votes. They will never promote ethnic unity because it is simply not in their interests. Their vote bank will always be Muhajirs who do not have the ability to question and analyze things like yourself and are by nature racist to other people.

There are even Muhajirs who have been murdered by MQM but we don't see it. I can present cases but you guys are like mini-taliban's. No matter how much I say it you will continue defending them. Calling the partition a mistake? Come on do you have any loyalty to your ancestors who sacrificed their lives to come here.

How is it an ethnic party when half of its leadership including the top two men are not ethnic Punjabis !

I would like to say that you are right about PMLN not being an ethnic party as such... PMLN has regularly won votes from areas other than Punjab as well. However the voting preferences of the average Pakistani voter is highly based on ethnicity. So basically a lot of people can learn from the fact that despite MQM is involved in brutal violence against other ethnic groups and its own too (have a friend who's uncle was in the MQM and they killed him-lots of other stories) and its leader calling the sacrifice of every urdu-speaker a mistake including the family members we lost there ... proves a point. That people just look at the persons ethnic group and vote.

For example PMLN is famous for getting votes in Punjab, PPP in Sindh and ANP too recently made inroads in Pakhtunkhwa... which is a change because this has historically been the only province against voting on ethnic basis.

Just an observation. Punjab faced THE worst of partition yet Muhajirs who migrated from Indian Punjab to Pak Punjab are never discussed and appreciated in mainstream.

They became Punjabis. Have dozens of people who moved from Indian Punjab to Pakistani Punjab. Not one calls himself Muhajir. In Punjab its only a small community that has basically heavy links to Karachi or came from parts in India where . Its just the karachites who are extremely confused. For example a friend is 100% Pashtun... now his family was based in Bihar. These guys moved initially to east pakistan then to Karachi. Now are a confused people. They call themselves that derogatory term muhajir and support MQM knowing full well that the party's sworn enemies are Pashtuns. That is why when @darkinsky actually begins his tirades against my adopted race, Pashtuns he is insulting himself... because Muhajir is a collective (but discriminatory) term for those who moved from India and the families that moved include Biharis, Lucknowites, Maharashtrans, Gujratis and many other communities including some Pathans as well.

The issue was the massive influx of refugees that came to Karachi made it difficult for them to integrate. 48% of the population of Karachi in 47 was Sindhi. With the influx of refugees this is now merely at 8%! So our family and others outnumber the local groups... it made integration much harder.

The issue is now seeing the effects and the issues that have now arisen... how can we make the people in Karachi give up on the MQM.

 

[Ayush]

Azad Kashmir - Topii dramaa haiii !

As my Grandpa used to say - Asliii Kashmiri sirf Valley ka hotaa haiii the rest are just masquerading as such !

Dude the point is - We've lost a lot of loved ones too & the Punjabis lost the most loved ones during the Partition ! When was the last time we played politics on the basis of that ?

can u plz explain this line-
Asliii Kashmiri sirf Valley ka hotaa hai.
i didnt get it.

 

[Kambojaric]

can u plz explain this line-
Asliii Kashmiri sirf Valley ka hotaa hai.
i didnt get it.

Actual ethnic Kashmiris only live in the valley i.e. Srinagar and the valley around it. Azad Kashmir, Jammu area are a mix of Punjabis and Kashmiris to simplify things, Gilgit Baltistan and Ladakh have their own indigenous ethnic groups. However all of these regions were conquered by the Mahrajahs of Kashmir and subsequently "recognized" by the British as legitimate conquests. Thus all the people in the Maharajahs kingdom came to be seen as "Kashmirirs" when in fact the ethnic Kashmiri people lived and the Kashmiri language was spoken primarily only in the valley.

@Armstrong. My paternal grandmother is also Kashmiri and with that i mean real ethnic Kashmiri lol, her family settled down in Lahore before partition. Not sure exactly where in the valley they were from (never got the chance to ask her, she passed away before i was born ).

But i agree with your previous post on their being no real issues between "muhajirs" and natives in Punjab. My family is really mixed as well. My maternal grandparents are from Jallundhur, two of my cousins are married to Pashtuns, my paternal grandfathers family are originally supposedly from N. Punjab, thats what my dad told me. Another one of my cousins is married to a urdu speaker from Karachi. And nobody has issues with each other. We all get on together just fine, one big happy family

 

[American Pakistani]

@haviZsultan nothing could be discussed here. Your thread has been derailed by members like somebozo & iceman who are spreading their B.S everywhere. Actually these are the people who are responsible for hatred in country cuz just think if people like them who have internet access beleive in forcing their views on others so what about villagers who have no access to anything & believe everything their elders/political leaders tells them. One cannot force his views on others.

 

[funtoosh]

I wish to apologize for this as I am by birth a muhajir but I am doing everything to set things right and to adress the criminal stance our family and khandaan here in Pakistan has been following which is particularly insensitive and callous to others. I am learning Pashto and I can speak okay... and understand it though still a lot of progress can be made. Other than my love for Pashtuns a reason I am adopting Pashtun identity is to send a message of solidarity.

... our urdu language is being imposed on others. Indeed. But if you look at it from another angle you will notice that Urdu was basically only meant to be a neutral language which would belong to know ethnic group in Pakistan at all. Very much like Persian used in the courts and by the aristocracy of the Mughals. It was an outside language being imposed but it belonged to no particular ethnic group so no one could claim the language favored one group No one actually knew the migrants that came from India would fail to integrate when they arrived and develop a separate identity. It is our parents/uncles mistake.

Now unfortunately everything is favoring the urdu-speakers. It is unfortunate that even people who declare themselves patriots like @American Pakistani do not see this, even though he is outside the country which should open up peoples minds. I am trying to argue with these people and make them see how our votes for MQM are destroying the beautiful bond between ethnic groups and our real culture... which is basically lucknowi, gujrati, marathi, bihari etc. This collective identity called muhajir is actually a derogatory term meaning pilgrim.

I don't think all are bad particularly @Secur and lots of others though the way my family uses derogatory terms and looks down its nose at other people has left in me quite a bitterness because all ethnic groups, all people in this country are our people and to be loved and cherished. We didn't make Pakistan to make it into a Muhajir empire.



Owaisi is a personal friend and he has been the only one supporting families that RSS killers murdered in Hyderabad. Our family and friends in Hyderabad support him and the Azad Deccan Movement fully. Owaisi still considers himself Indian... you want to make the situation worse attack him. But you're going to bear the consequences. Hyderabadi Muslims have a vast variety of reasons to be angry and they are pissed. I won't say all but the people we have back there are.

Owaisi family is a bunch of criminal razakars. If your family or he is going to ask for azad deccan that's treason and no harm in finishing them off. It's the same thing as what you do with balochi separatists. Owaisi family are just crooks and rest of India won't hesitate to finish hyderabadi Muslims if they wag their tails.

 

[Secur]

Innovations like bori band lash, longest running telephonic speeches, live mujra during political speeches, need I say more.

I didn't expect this idiotic reply from you ... You are generalizing the actions of a single person and a political party for a whole bunch of people ! Do we have one more biased member here ?

 

[RazorMC]

... What do you say about the idea of creating a dozen different provinces on basis of " administration " , not race to nullify the advantage of a few political parties ?

Should have been done ages ago. But our political parties choose to keep the status-quo for their personal gains.

And almost all political parties use the ethnic card to gain support. PTI happens to be an exception and calls itself a national party rather than an ethnic-based one. Hats off to I.Khan in this regard atleast.

 

[Secur]

Should have been done ages ago. But our political parties choose to keep the status-quo for their personal gains.

And almost all political parties use the ethnic card to gain support. PTI happens to be an exception and calls itself a national party rather than an ethnic-based one. Hats off to I.Khan in this regard atleast.

Yeah , just like our eastern neighbor ... Why some people get so emotional if there are talks of dividing their province is beyond me ! Dont they have brains to think about the long term benefits it would bring to them and their country ?

Yes , PTI's an exception ... But still feudals can do the job for the corrupt and mafia political parties at the end of the day ...