Split Discussion: Muhajir Identity

[funtoosh]

Can you explain this with a source?

My own analysis. Check ou owaisi hate speech in India. There will be some fight at some point and that's when more indian Muslims maybe forced to move out.

 

[tarrar]

I will say only one thing that terrorist MQM (Altaf Hussain) is spreading false propaganda that the Muhajirs were & are getting tortured, where as terrorist MQM is killing it’s people so that the propaganda spreads fast & people are forcefully forced to believe in this constructed lies.

 

[Secur]

Govt Islamia Science College, Karachi. Go there & see what these jamiat guys do there. They don't want students to get education but join their organization. Go there & get the facts yourself.

Mate , the same is true for APMSO ( the student wing of MQM ) in Karachi University which is to say one of the biggest universities in Pakistan ... Their activist who are fed propaganda from the young ages and led to believe that somehow they exist because of the party and Altaf Hussain are nothing more than armed goons , they roam around spreading terror and their cancerous ideology as if they own that sacred educational institution , cancel papers every now and then by aerial firing and such ( check the evidence for this on TV , it isn't reported as APMSO but a certain " political organization " though ) , threaten teachers to manipulate attendance and results to favor them sometimes to the point of torture , will not hesitate to fight against other students who merely disagree with them again and just because their party's in the Govt , they have got " reserved seats " for their most loyal and high level " student leaders " forget any merit etc here ( this may be a little surprising too ) and basically they are interested in everything but education ...

Check ou owaisi hate speech in India. There will be some fight at some point and that's when more indian Muslims maybe forced to move out.

WHAT ?

 

[Secur]

Because we don't play the ethnicity card ! Because our politics are 'governance' oriented; whereby we recognize that South is less developed than the North & it would be good if they get a separate Province of their own to concentrate all of their resources there !

Well , that is something then we can learn from Punjab - not to mention the quality of education and excellent law and order compared to Karachi ! What do you say about the idea of creating a dozen different provinces on basis of " administration " , not race to nullify the advantage of a few political parties ?

 

[Armstrong]

Well , that is something then we can learn from Punjab - not to mention the quality of education and excellent law and order compared to Karachi ! What do you say about the idea of creating a dozen different provinces on basis of " administration " , not race to nullify the advantage of a few political parties ?

What Quality of Education & Excellent Law & Order ?

Kiyun jaleiii pe namaak cheraaak taa haii !

Shahbaz has ravaged our roads & blown our budget on overheads & underpasses all over ! Whereas our Education budget hasn't received its due. The Law & Order situation isn't nearly as bad as Karachi in terms of the deaths but the petty crimes & the occasional big-ones are still aplenty !
@Secur: On the Province Creation bit ! Absolutely !

Dissolve the current Provinces & raise up the division to provincial level with a US styled Federal System with maximum possible devolution & strong local governments.

You won't find Punjab & Punjabis opposing that !

 

[Secur]

What Quality of Education & Excellent Law & Order ?

Kiyun jaleiii pe namaak cheraaak taa haii !

@Secur: On the Province Creation bit ! Absolutely !

Dissolve the current Provinces & raise up the division to provincial level with a US styled Federal System with maximum possible devolution & strong local governments.

You won't find Punjab & Punjabis opposing that !

You do not know - it is excellent compared to Sindh ! Facts and figures will confirm that ...

So the answer is " Sure , Why not ? " just as I expected , believe it or not but it will go a long way in blurring the ethnic lines and improving administration in Pakistan ... Give them autonomy - let no man feel insecure that they aren't being given due share ... How are Punjabis ready for more provinces but Sindhis are not ? ... I would like to propose the second ( since you have mentioned Seraiki province ) make the Churna and Astola and other small Islands a province and give it to Secur Administration

 

[Armstrong]

You do not know - it is excellent compared to Sindh ! Facts and figures will confirm that ...

So the answer is " Sure , Why not ? " just as I expected , believe it or not but it will go a long way in blurring the ethnic lines and improving administration in Pakistan ... Give them autonomy - let no man feel insecure that they aren't being given due share ... How are Punjabis ready for more provinces but Sindhis are not ? ... I would like to propose the second ( since you have mentioned Seraiki province ) make the Churna and Astola and other small Islands a province and give it to Secur Administration

Dude I dunno what the Educational situation is in Sindh but here in Lahore the Public Universities are gems being blackened each succeeding year. The Colleges are in pretty bad shape & the Public Schools are the worst of the lot. We've got potential for so much more but our corruption, nepotism & at times outright stupidity is keeping our sons & daughters from progressing forward.

Yaraaa Punjabis are a chill lot & don't talk in terms of 'ethnic' or 'linguistic' terms, they are very inclusive & not in the least bit 'uptight' about their culture or language. This keeps any talk of, to borrow a term from Mahmood Khan Achakzai, 'Yeh Hamara Tareekhaa Watan hai aur iss mein joo kuch haii uss ka Punjabiyon aur unn ke Bachoon ka haaq honna chahiyee', to a 'nonexistent' level. I'm an ethnic Kashmiri & conspicuously so & I speak pretty bad Punjabi but neither I nor my father nor his father before him have ever been 'differentiated' never mind 'discriminated' against by any Punjabi from any social strata. Thats how 'inclusive' Punjabis are. Hence creating Provinces from Punjab doesn't bother us; heck even the Sereiki thing doesn't bother us but we do like to point that out that there is no such thing as 'Takht-i-Lahore' & each successive politician from those areas have been politicizing this issue; create the Province if you will but things aren't going to improve by a huge margin.

But this comes at a price; urban Punjabis from the educated middle class are loosing their language & their culture. I don't remember a single Punjabi who studied with me during my O'levels, A'levels or in College ever being 'fluent' in Punjabi. Some would even look down on this language as being 'uncouth' & 'uncultured' not to be uttered in civilized circles. Even in the rural areas where most people know the Punjabi language & a few folk stories here, a few couplets there; they don't know about the History of Punjab or some of the bigger names from our past because this has been grossly neglected by every successive government with no attempt being made to nurture Punjab's cultural & linguistic identity.

 

[Secur]

Dude I dunno what the Educational situation is in Sindh but here in Lahore the Public Universities are gems being blackened each succeeding year. The Colleges are in pretty bad shape & the Public Schools are the worst of the lot. We've got potential for so much more but our corruption, nepotism & at times outright stupidity is keeping our sons & daughters from progressing forward.

Yaraaa Punjabis are a chill lot & don't talk in terms of 'ethnic' or 'linguistic' terms, they are very inclusive & not in the least bit 'uptight' about their culture or language. This keeps any talk of, to borrow a term from Mahmood Khan Achakzai, 'Yeh Hamara Tareekhaa Watan hai aur iss mein joo kuch haii uss ka Punjabiyon aur unn ke Bachoon ka haaq honna chahiyee', to a 'nonexistent' level. I'm an ethnic Kashmiri & conspicuously so & I speak pretty bad Punjabi but neither I nor my father nor his father before him have ever been 'differentiated' never mind 'discriminated' against by any Punjabi from any social strata. Thats how 'inclusive' Punjabis are. Hence creating Provinces from Punjab doesn't bother us; heck even the Sereiki thing doesn't bother us but we do like to point that out that there is no such thing as 'Takht-i-Lahore' & each successive politician from those areas have been politicizing this issue; create the Province if you will but things aren't going to improve by a huge margin.

But this comes at a price; urban Punjabis from the educated middle class are loosing their language & their culture. I don't remember a single Punjabi who studied with me during my O'levels, A'levels or in College ever being 'fluent' in Punjabi. Some would even look down on this language as being 'uncouth' & 'uncultured' not to be uttered in civilized circles. Even in the rural areas where most people know the Punjabi language & a few folk stories here, a few couplets there; they don't know about the History of Punjab or some of the bigger names from our past because this has been grossly neglected by every successive government with no attempt being made to nurture Punjab's cultural & linguistic identity.

I see , well you have a couple of Pakistan's top universities in that province and since they are ranked each year by HEC , I for one do not think their quality is going down ... Well , colleges and private schools are the same everywhere milking money from parents and providing sub standard education which is resulting in more and more students making their ways to universities with very weak base and grasp of concept and hence unable to cope with the ever challenging environment of higher education ...

Good to hear ! A Sindhi ( everyone included ) will make it an issue of their existence if there are ever talks of division of provinces into smaller provinces for better administration ... Why ? I do not have a proper answer ... Perhaps , its decades of " race based " politics and ethnic cards being played that have created this mindset ... Even though Karachi is " mini-Pakistan " and plays hosts to everyone seeking a better future , provides 70% of the revenue and remains the financial hub of Pakistan and should have been a center of interracial harmony , people regardless of their race working for the prosperity of the state of Pakistan but sadly it to a certain extent went in the opposite direction ... Yeah , its good if Punjabis take an interest in other cultures and adopt things from it , its norm here too but the people will still retain the ******* racial bias ... So what area of Kashmir are you from ? Mirpur ? Muzaffarabad ? Kel ? Rawalakot ? Bagh ? ... Believe it or not , even I haven't faced any discrimination by any race here , not saying that it doesn't happen but it isn't as common as some like to portray ... I see the reason why people will be actually glad to divide the province because they will get more resources and better administration , they are seeing their long term benefits not the " non existent " racial issue there ... I do not believe that there is anything as " Throne of Lahore " or anything , trust me things can improve a lot if we create more provinces ... I see no harm , does someone here ?

I said in a reply to @haviZsultan in the other thread that the educated people aren't concerned with racial or linguistic issues usually , hence the effect of loosing their language , here every single person coming from every province or administrative territories will like to speak " Urdu " but the people who have been living here for generations ( again the educated mostly ) speak pathetic " Urdu " to the extent that most of them aren't able to write it properly ... They would say " English is the lingua franca of modern times " but no I do not think someone would consider one as " uncultured " if he speaks fluent Urdu , they would merely consider him " old fashioned " ... Well the same is true here , most people dont know the history of Sindh nor the Govt's interested in teaching it to the new generations ...

 

[474474]

Stop your self pity and lose your superiority complex, just let us live our life. You keep insisting there's a problem when there isn't one

 

[somebozo]

Just an observation. Punjab faced THE worst of partition yet Muhajirs who migrated from Indian Punjab to Pak Punjab are never discussed and appreciated in mainstream.

The identity Muhajir was created by MQM and it only covers post 1951 economic migrants.
Just ask Altaf Hussian or any of the MQM leadership to show evidence how many of their family members were killed during riots and what contribution did these so called "parha likha" muhajir made toward Pakistan?

 

[Secur]

1) MQM is the sole representative of urdu speakers as PPP is for sindh, PMLN is for punjab, ANP is for pathans the violance begets violance, the illegal afghan immigration laden with weapons and drugs came to karachi, according to my understanding of things thats the time when APMSO, the student federation which eventually became MQM emerged

shahi syed calling mohajirs panah guzeers

Strongly , NO ... How can it be ? when Muhajirs are found in every single party and remain well integrated in the society of Pakistan and represented equally in the Govt and other institutions ... Who has granted this right of " sole representation " to them ? ... MQM just like the rest of the political parties is a parasite trying to prolong their rule , loot the country using ethnic cards and involved in heinous crimes against the state and the very race it claims to represent ... What happened to Muhajir Qaumi Movement Haqiqi ? Weren't MQM and they involved in killing each other ? Doesn't MQM collect " protection money " from shop vendors and businessmen - even Muhajirs ? Do not they forcibly collect the " so called donations " and leather after Eid ? Are they not involved in massacre of people of other races and of their own who disagreed with them ? Is it not true that the person who claims to be the " messiah " of Muhajirs fears to set foot in the very city ? Isn't it true again that MQM has most of the time deteriorated the law and order situation in Karachi ? Isn't their very leader a traitor who spoke against partition in an hostile country ? Mate , they are just a mafia like other political parties ... Now , some of the points you made are true that how MQM came to be what it is today , there were great political blunders committed by the rulers of the country like promoting ethnicity and bringing Afghan refugees which are a curse to this nation honestly but that isn't the sole factor - a fear was created by some of our leaders , there are many others ... But the question is what do we fear ? Why's the insecurity ? Is MQM necessary to our existence ? Cant we exist without them ? Does it happen if they leave the political arena , everyone will kill and eat us ? No MATE ! This is again the same propaganda spread by this party to come into the Govt again ... What have we got by electing them again and again ? Anything ?

P.S Shahi Syed is another clown like Altaf Hussain with the same ideology ... If we start to take him seriously , then God save us !

Stop your self pity and lose your superiority complex, just let us live our life.

What superiority complex ?

what contribution did these so called "parha likha" muhajir made toward Pakistan?

Are you questioning the contributions of all Muhajirs to Pakistan ? Really ? Or am I understanding it in the wrong context ?

P.S The race in question has the highest HDI in Pakistan ... Just for the record ...

 

[474474]

Strongly , NO ... How can it be ? when Muhajirs are found in every single party and remain well integrated in the society of Pakistan and represented equally in the Govt and other institutions ... Who has granted this right of " sole representation " to them ? ... MQM just like the rest of the political parties is a parasite trying to prolong their rule , loot the country using ethnic cards and involved in heinous crimes against the state and the very race it claims to represent ... What happened to Muhajir Qaumi Movement Haqiqi ? Weren't MQM and they involved in killing each other ? Doesn't MQM collect " protection money " from shop vendors and businessmen - even Muhajirs ? Do not they forcibly collect the " so called donations " and leather after Eid ? Are they not involved in massacre of people of other races and of their own who disagreed with them ? Is it not true that the person who claims to be the " messiah " of Muhajirs fears to set foot in the very city ? Isn't it true again that MQM has most of the time deteriorated the law and order situation in Karachi ? Isn't their very leader a traitor who spoke against partition in an hostile country ? Mate , they are just a mafia like other political parties ... Now , some of the points you made are true that how MQM came to be what it is today , there were great political blunders committed by the rulers of the country like promoting ethnicity and bringing Afghan refugees which are a curse to this nation honestly but that isn't the sole factor - a fear was created by some of our leaders , there are many others ... But the question is what do we fear ? Why's the insecurity ? Is MQM a necessity to our existence ? Cant we exist without them ? Does it happen if they leave the political arena , everyone will kill and eat us ? No MATE ! This is again the same propaganda spread by this party to come into the Govt again ... What have we got by electing them again and again ? Anything ?

P.S Shahi Syed is another clown like Altaf Hussain with the same ideology ... If we start to take him seriously , then God save us !



What superiority complex ?



Are you questioning the contributions of all Muhajirs to Pakistan ? Really ? Or am I understanding it in the wrong context ?

Havi has this wannabe pushtun/real Pakistani complex that makes him feel he superior to all the evil muhajirs who are the source of all of pakistans troubles

The identity Muhajir was created by MQM and it only covers post 1951 economic migrants.
Just ask Altaf Hussian or any of the MQM leadership to show evidence how many of their family members were killed during riots and what contribution did these so called "parha likha" muhajir made toward Pakistan?

What contribution did we make? Serious-fcking-ly?
More than what your worthless existence will in a million years, awkat mein reh
And btw, you seem to know too much about the reasons of migration I assume you were there to witness it? You turn out to be born here just by chance, and then run away to Saudi to serve the Arabs? We can all see how youre the pride of Pakistan

 

[Secur]

Atleast Punjabis got their land, think about us no one politically fought for our lands...how many land we had lo leave behind. Alot of land from UP, Bihar, Hyderabad Deccan, Gujarat(Junagadh/Manvadar) would've been Pakistan today.

Bro , this is an issue created by the political parties on their specific agendas and of course the Zia-ul-Haq who invited millions of ungrateful Afghans and made a ******* mess of the city , this is everything but not a land issue ! Migrants do not bring lands with them , otherwise how would they be migrants ? ... Pakistan was created for all Muslims of the Subcontinent , no where did the Quaid specify " Hey , Make sure to bring your land here "

 

[474474]

Dude I dunno what the Educational situation is in Sindh but here in Lahore the Public Universities are gems being blackened each succeeding year. The Colleges are in pretty bad shape & the Public Schools are the worst of the lot. We've got potential for so much more but our corruption, nepotism & at times outright stupidity is keeping our sons & daughters from progressing forward.

Yaraaa Punjabis are a chill lot & don't talk in terms of 'ethnic' or 'linguistic' terms, they are very inclusive & not in the least bit 'uptight' about their culture or language. This keeps any talk of, to borrow a term from Mahmood Khan Achakzai, 'Yeh Hamara Tareekhaa Watan hai aur iss mein joo kuch haii uss ka Punjabiyon aur unn ke Bachoon ka haaq honna chahiyee', to a 'nonexistent' level. I'm an ethnic Kashmiri & conspicuously so & I speak pretty bad Punjabi but neither I nor my father nor his father before him have ever been 'differentiated' never mind 'discriminated' against by any Punjabi from any social strata. Thats how 'inclusive' Punjabis are. Hence creating Provinces from Punjab doesn't bother us; heck even the Sereiki thing doesn't bother us but we do like to point that out that there is no such thing as 'Takht-i-Lahore' & each successive politician from those areas have been politicizing this issue; create the Province if you will but things aren't going to improve by a huge margin.

But this comes at a price; urban Punjabis from the educated middle class are loosing their language & their culture. I don't remember a single Punjabi who studied with me during my O'levels, A'levels or in College ever being 'fluent' in Punjabi. Some would even look down on this language as being 'uncouth' & 'uncultured' not to be uttered in civilized circles. Even in the rural areas where most people know the Punjabi language & a few folk stories here, a few couplets there; they don't know about the History of Punjab or some of the bigger names from our past because this has been grossly neglected by every successive government with no attempt being made to nurture Punjab's cultural & linguistic identity.

The main thing is, there are quotas for Sindhis in the educational system, rather than merit based, also people from all corners of Pakistan are forced to learn Sindhi (I respect it as a language, but nothing should be forced)

 

[Secur]

Havi has this wannabe pushtun/real Pakistani complex that makes him feel he superior to all the evil muhajirs who are the source of all of pakistans troubles

No , he doesn't , my friend ... He is one of the migrants too with a very broad genetic pool like me ... We all want the ethnic lines to blur so we can head towards peace and prosperity ... Nobody enjoys when 8-10 people are killed daily in Karachi or the violence initiates against a specific race because of the venom by a few political parties ... Learn to take criticism as criticism and not as abuse , he has spoken against the frontier Gandhi and all those ANP leaders who were against the creation of Pakistan ...

The main thing is, there are quotas for Sindhis in the educational system, rather than merit based, also people from all corners of Pakistan are forced to learn Sindhi (I respect it as a language, but nothing should be forced)

Well , that certainly is one the issues causing this divide ... There should be merit based selection in every institutions and not on race , color or blood ... Talking of Sindhi , well everyone learns Urdu right ?