Split Discussion: Muhajir Identity

[474474]

Some people are too blinded by racism and xenophobia so I can't reply to any of the replies

Btw, maybe havi isn't a bad guy after all. But he does need to man up and not be embarrassed about his culture, and enjoy some Bihari kebabs or Bombay Biryani or something

 

[RazorMC]

I wish to apologize for this as I am by birth a muhajir but I am doing everything to set things right and to adress the criminal stance our family and khandaan here in Pakistan has been following[1] ...

... Urdu was basically only meant to be a neutral language[2] which would belong to know ethnic group in Pakistan at all.
... No one actually knew the migrants that came from India would fail to integrate when they arrived and develop a separate identity. It is our parents/uncles mistake.

[1] If you say you dislike the actions of your own family then it's your personal choice and your own right.
But I fail to see how you can attach your family's assumed mistakes to the entire Urdu-speaking community of Karachi. Why are you being so apologetic for someone else's actions?

[2] You are right in this regard. Urdu was supposed to be a language that could bind the nation together in one common identity. But problems occured when people misunderstood this as an unfair advantage to those who migrated to Pakistan. They didn't realize that many migrants didn't even speak Urdu as the first language and only used it to communicate it with others. Like a Memon conversing with a Bihari etc...

Integration is another matter altogether.
When I was a kid, most people referred to me as "Muhajir" or "Hindustani" even though I only saw myself as a Pakistani and a Sindhi. All this has changed ever since people started to really understand that the only losers from this ethnic divisions between Muhajirs, Sindhis, Pukhtoons, Baloch and Punjabis were the ordinary people themselves. The only one who got killed was the average person while the leaders were safe in their palaces.

Some people are too blinded by racism and xenophobia so I can't reply to any of the replies

Btw, maybe havi isn't a bad guy after all. But he does need to man up and not be embarrassed about his culture, and enjoy some Bihari kebabs or Bombay Biryani or something

The underlined part is a valid point. These different cultures are what makes Pakistan so beautiful.
The different variety of food itself is amazing ....


We should be proud of our culture and heritage and learn to respect others as well.

 

[Marwat Khan Lodhi]

There are many indian mohajirs settled in Peshawer, most of them identify themeselves as hindkowans and some of them identify themeselves as pashtuns and punjabis.
In my home town, lakki marwat, there are biharis who settled there after 1971, their pakorras, samosas and similar foods that they sell are very tasty, they speak perfect pashto and are integrated fully.

In my opinion mohajirs should not have been allowed to settle in one place e.g karachi, they should have been dispersed through out country.

 

[LURKER]

nvm......................

 

[haviZsultan]

Owaisi family is a bunch of criminal razakars. If your family or he is going to ask for azad deccan that's treason and no harm in finishing them off. It's the same thing as what you do with balochi separatists. Owaisi family are just crooks and rest of India won't hesitate to finish hyderabadi Muslims if they wag their tails.

I strongly identify with the Hyderabadi branch of our family. You guys have been harassing them for years. Owaisi and AIMIM is the sole representative of not just deccan muslims but all muslims in India. You have tried to finish them off before and the result is the Azad Deccan Movement, they have set up offices in Saudi and Canada too. You shouldn't make this mistake.

Its surprising the kind of Indian terrorists present on this forum.

@haviZsultan nothing could be discussed here. Your thread has been derailed by members like somebozo & iceman who are spreading their B.S everywhere. Actually these are the people who are responsible for hatred in country cuz just think if people like them who have internet access beleive in forcing their views on others so what about villagers who have no access to anything & believe everything their elders/political leaders tells them. One cannot force his views on others.

How has it been derailed??? Everyone shares his opinion though I am focusing on the so-called muhajir posts. Man this is the entire issue. Why you guys are so stuck up about everything. There will always be criticism and rather the fact that every non-muhajir is saying this party is a terrorist party should open our eyes... but like my family it never will. No one is forcing his views. How can someone force you to do something through the internet? This is a national forum... i can't keep non-muhajirs out if thats what you want but thats where divisions in society start.

Look I am muhajir by birth and say Muhajirs are very pathetic, skittish, meek and I must say very stupid to be following an idiot like Altaf... did the sky fall, did the world end...

I say Altaf should be shot for treason to his country and the address that called partition a mistake. Did lightning strike me from the sky, did the earth start shaking and swallow me inside? No.

now before darkinsky gets enraged and shoots some poor pathan walking in the streets let me add

People say I am sympathetic to my adopted identity (Pashtuns) which is particularly because of the bias I saw rather than adopting their ways but here I say Pathans are hard-headed, easy to provoke and often uneducated.

Did it make any difference whatsoever? Why are we so stuck up about these identities? Why can't MQM not be criticized? The issue is with us not with anyone else. And let me ask you

Man look at @Hyperion... he has a thread named Naswar corner. Naswar is a social ill in Pashtun society brought upon us by British invaders who our people fought all the time and has been used for years to make fun of Pashtuns in the worst possible ways constantly. I even saw an add in Indus music long ago where this guy says I am Pathan and I like Naswar a lot... but more than that I like indus music. Do you think Pashtuns want to be identified as drug addicts and gun-totting criminals? No and I have been a little nervous about this since one member made a racist post about Naswar and its relationship with Pashtuns because of provocateur luffy. But DOES HYPERION CARE? He just doesn't care AND WANTS TO HAVE FUN-ETHNIC IDENTITY IS NOT SERIOUS FOR HIM which is why he may make a good think tank member.

Get in a conversation with him and basically every other Pashtun tribe will become non-pashtun or weak pashtun. People don't care about ethnic identity here.

The only ones who do are those who are ethnically polarized and the ones who are ethnically polarized 90% are voting for a party based and formed on the basis of ethnicity. You being in America should be opening up to new ideas. Instead you are being part of the same blame game. How are these people part of the problem man? It was MQM thugs that closed Mr Navaid's (a muhajir) restaurant not @somebozo and others. How many case studies do you want me to provide to prove my point?

For some people here however the moment MQM is attacked or the falseness of Muhajir identity questioned they feel insulted even if a migrant is doing it himself ... and its because they are too attached to it... too engaged with that identity to actually think of their actions critically.

The reply to your first post here is coming soon... hold on to your seat homie. I wanted to discuss Muhajir identity itself in depth more than the MQM. Your post is exactly about the topic.

Some people are too blinded by racism and xenophobia so I can't reply to any of the replies

Btw, maybe havi isn't a bad guy after all. But he does need to man up and not be embarrassed about his culture, and enjoy some Bihari kebabs or Bombay Biryani or something

You do not understand me at all. I am claiming to be a Pashtun with barely 10-15% blood and sticking my *** in each one of their affairs for which Luffy hates me and others suspect me or believe I am highly confused. But I have made regular efforts to maintain I am loyal to Firangi Mahal (my ancestral house) and Lucknow/Barey Gaon (my ancestral town) and Lucknowi culture.

I am not embarassed about it but lets look at a very solid reality. Most of my (Muhajir) cousins do not have the money, will or time to go to their ancestral town. They haven't even seen Lucknow. Of course cooking, way of dressing and some things come down from elders and they remain which I am happy about. But the aap janab and aap pehle has completely disappeared... there are other signs as well that basically lucknowi identity itself is basically disappearing in ways. Soon we will have no link with Lucknow except cooking style and dress. I think I can do more for national unity by adopting Pashtun identity in this case.

And as far as my culture is concerned it is not "Muhajir" because there is nothing like it... I made this post which was one of the first. But no one reads the earlier posts. Read it well. Muhajir itself is NO identity. Its being imposed on us and is a derogatory term that means pilgrim. I would rather not have anything to do with it and we were supposed to merge anyway so being a patriotic Pakistani I believe I am doing my duty... and since Pashtuns are promoted to be the enemy-they are the ideal choice. Read this:

Meaning of ethnic group:

adjective
1.
pertaining to or characteristic of a people, especially a group (ethnic group) sharing a common and distinctive culture, religion, language, or the like.

Now let me start from common, it means in this usage the same characteristics, it shares things and traits. Now lets see what we share in common. Culture-right, have you seen the wedding of a Bihari or Lucknowi muslim and the wedding ceremony of a Madrasi Muslim (yt search it and watch each wedding carefully), what do we share... a madrasi muslim wears dhoti or lungee, we lucknowites have never heard of anything such as a dhoti and never worn it. We are the people of sherwanis, shalwar kameez and other things. So what common culture? Then history, compare me and secur... his mother a bihari with far different upbringing, my mother a lucknowite from the firangi mahal house which once hosted muslim league leaders. What common history, yaar? Then language... fine lots speak urdu but even we have different dialects-Hyderabadi guys talk like gunda's in bollywood movies (have an aunt who moved from Hydz so I know... but she is ansar too, one of us) we have this pure urdu and aap janab... same as aligarh muslims, but are known as meek and overly courteous and graceful. And are we forgetting the gujju's? There are groups of migrants who speak marathi and gujrati too It has no culture-each group has its own separate culture. It has no shared history-it has no shared language. Muhajir is a fake term imposed on us by ourselves which we are keen to maintain.

Also read this:

I am not in favor of migrants giving up their culture but what is their culture exactly??? How is it defined? Now yes Gujarati speakers, the hyderabadis who have a different dialect of Urdu and often wear saris more often... all should maintain their culture and languages. But the thing is these aren't "muhajir" cultural practices are they? Because each muhajir has a different culture-even our family/khandaan members from hyderabad are far different from us... It is just a derogatory term applied by muhajirs on themselves.

By the way Bihari kabab and Bombay Biryani isn't my culture but somehow by some freak of nature MQM supporters want to make all this under one fake culture. I will name one specialty from lucknow called Kakori kabab. Not to say I don't like Bihari kababs which are damn tasty! If I can enjoy bihari kababs and bombay biryani which are not from my Lucknowi culture then no ones should hurt if I have sajji with my Baloch brothers, Punjabi style nihari with my Punjabi brothers, Patri Khichreen with Sindhi brothers and to sweeten it some sheer berinj with Pashtuns (Still hold I am one too.... )... so my friend I want no identity to divide me from my country and my people. @Armstrong which of these dishes can you identify ... am serious about maintaining Pakistan's various cultures and languages. But Muhajir is not a culture as I described. :p

 

[Chak Bamu]

1. Thank you @haviZsultan for touching an important issue.

2. Thank you moderators for allowing this discussion. If this were PakDef, Havi would have been banned by now; and based on what I have to say I would expect to be banned as well.

3. Discussion of Mohajir identity here is rather simplistic and devoid of the nuances that are quite important. Nothing exists without a reason. If a number of people choose to call themselves Mohajirs, then one can not simply dismiss it. There is/are reasons for it.
a) When an Urdu-speaking person sees that Sindhi favors a fellow Sindhi, Pathan favors a fellow Pathan, and Punjabi favors a fellow Punjabi, then naturally the said person might wonder what ought he to do when he needs a favor? In our Pakistan one can not simply assume a moral high-ground only to find oneself stranded alone and disadvantaged. When one goes to government departments one finds that there is a need to find references and to apply some sort influence to get a favorable outcome. High on this list are the departments with which a common person often needs to interact: Police, judiciary, revenue, municipal offices and such like.
b) Quota system makes sense to the over-whelming majority of the country's population, just as @Armstrong has pointed out. However, with many educated Urdu-speaking immigrants employed in the federal and provincial government in the early years of Pakistan, naturally their second generation expected to follow in their footsteps and aspire to a government job. Two factors then intervened. First, the shifting of Capital to Islamabad; and second, the imposition of quota system. Thus to Urdu-speaking population of Karachi there seemed to be a raw-deal for their second generation. The quota system was supposed to be temporary, but it proved so convenient that it is still alive and well. Now the situation for a number of years has been such that non-Urdu speakers predominate in the federal and provincial offices in Karachi. As I said, when people of particular ethnicities favor each other, there is natural resentment in the Urdu-speakers (I am avoiding using the term 'mohajir' purposely).
c) The resentment thus arising feeds the need to assume an identity and this is where the term 'Mohajir' finds its purpose. It is essentially a reactionary mechanism. A new 'ethnicity' is in the making because there is a perceived need for it. I have to say that in my limited understanding, the aforementioned resentment is a very important factor, perhaps the most important.

4. This leads me to address the narrative that MQM has popularized among Urdu-speaking community. As noted by @haviZsultan there is an assumption of superiority among some (or many) in Urdu-speaking community. I have noticed so much myself. This superiority is based on certain assumptions among which level of education, cultural sophistication, Urdu's pre-eminent cultural position, a feeling of having sacrificed more than others, presumed victim-hood etc.. all figure. Elements from this list figure prominently in the narrative used by MQM. The presumption of victim-hood, the idea of having sacrificed disproportionately, the assumption that Pakistan was created by Urdu-speakers, and the assumption that this new country could not have survived without their sacrifices, is deeply ingrained in MQM workers and supporters. These assumptions assume a mythological significance and it is very difficult to shake them. These are the pillars upon which the edifice of 'Mohajir' identity is built.

That this narrative is not quite the whole truth and that many people find these assumptions offensive does not quite sink in the committed MQM mind-set. I do not wish to provide counter arguments in the interest of brevity and can come back to this if asked.

5. The formation of APMSO, the rise of Muhajir Qaumi Movement, and its factured evolution to Mutahidda Qaumi Movement has been well noted. The rhetoric, methods, and tactics used along the way are also well-known. Today MQM can not claim moral high ground, flaunt its self-assumed victim-hood, or make a valid claim to espouse the cause of the dispossessed. Nobody trusts them outside of their core support areas, no matter what they say. There was some willingness among the educated classes among various ethnicities to give them a chance, forget their earlier rhetoric, set aside the bias arising out of their methods; just to see how MQM goes about fulfilling its stated goals. I have seen all this support evaporate in the last decade or so. They had their chance and they blew it. They are condemned to the status of a small regional party. The best MQM can hope for is to sustain itself until it goes through a generational change. With new people unburdened with soiled reputations there would be another chance after a decade or two. But to avail that chance, MQM genuinely needs to jettison its parochial agenda. When an MQM supporter says emphatically that Karachi belongs to Muhajirs, they are perpetuating all that is wrong with MQM.

I am deeply cynical of MQM and can not bring myself to support them now. Pakistan needs much more than the middle-class ethos that MQM purports to represent. We are a nation. We need an inclusive vision. One that shows that each and everyone of us, even the much-hated waderas and sardars, has a stake in this country and its success. If ANP can be made to come around, then so can others.

I wish to write about the dubious role of Punjabis and their happy-go-lucky attitudes in creation of various misunderstandings, but I think that can wait til later for a more appropriate time and thread.

 

[KingMamba]

My own analysis. Check ou owaisi hate speech in India. There will be some fight at some point and that's when more indian Muslims maybe forced to move out.

Nah they will carve another state out of India first.

There are many indian mohajirs settled in Peshawer, most of them identify themeselves as hindkowans and some of them identify themeselves as pashtuns and punjabis.
In my home town, lakki marwat, there are biharis who settled there after 1971, their pakorras, samosas and similar foods that they sell are very tasty, they speak perfect pashto and are integrated fully.

In my opinion mohajirs should not have been allowed to settle in one place e.g karachi, they should have been dispersed through out country.

I agree with this, the problem was they all settled in one area and refused to intermingle with other ethnic groups eventually gaining a victim mentality which clowns like Altaf play off of for votes.

 

[batmannow]

its not a disscussion but a destruction of the identity & unity of pakistan, & used by biasd minds who are basicly racsist!

 

[Chak Bamu]

Please do be more articulate. I would very much like to hear what you might have to say. I mean it. This is a discussion, and I hope we can take it forward with your help.

 

[haviZsultan]

@Chak Bamu this is one of the best posts over here and I wish there was a triple thank option. I also admire how articulate your thoughts are on the matter. When I think or write something my mind is a jumble and my thoughts all over the place... which brother Hyperion also noted as I deviate constantly from the topic being discussed. Its happened dozens of times and entire threads have been derailed because of it.

That post was an exquisite, elaborate look into the possible reasons not only the MQM issue and Muhajir false-identity issue remains but also why the entire ethnic issue remains. I will reply to your posts soon but I will reply to posts by darkinsky which basically seem to blame everyone else for where Karachi is today.

That post proved you are a brilliant poster. Do not become emotional like me as this is what has hampered me most of the time as I am inclined to ridicule people who I see are part of the problem. This thread is other than serving as a place for debate a test case if I can refrain from calling people like darkinsky names.

 

[Sedqal]

@Chak Bamu
- I don't think MQM supports a merit system (as opposed to a Quota system) nation wide. They want it in Sindh where they know they can benefit from it. So its a political notion not an ideological one.

Another Observation:
Many Urdu speakers here take resentment towards Altaf Hussain (MQM) as resentment towards Urdu speakers which is not true. In Pakistani politics Altaf Hussain has been demonized by his opponents, same as Zardari. MQM itself has made some severe political mistakes like supporting Musharraf when whole country was against him, 12th May destroyed any goodwill Mustafa Kamal had earned for the party. Due to hopping into every Govt they don't have any ideological stand left. The blame for bad political decisions and failure to beat the negative opinion lies on them not anyone else. Just look at last two blunders, Altaf threatened journalists then apologized after a day (but the damage was done by then) and supporting TuQ whe every legitimate political party is against him. There is also that gem of a 4 hour marathon 'parday mein rehnay do' lecture.

 

[batmannow]

@Chak Bamu
- I don't think MQM supports a merit system (as opposed to a Quota system) nation wide. They want it in Sindh where they know they can benefit from it. So its a political notion not an ideological one.

Another Observation:
Many Urdu speakers here take resentment towards Altaf Hussain (MQM) as resentment towards Urdu speakers which is not true. In Pakistani politics Altaf Hussain has been demonized by his opponents, same as Zardari. MQM itself has made some severe political mistakes like supporting Musharraf when whole country was against him, 12th May destroyed any goodwill Mustafa Kamal had earned for the party. Due to hopping into every Govt they don't have any ideological stand left. The blame for bad political decisions and failure to beat the negative opinion lies on them not anyone else. Just look at last two blunders, Altaf threatened journalists then apologized after a day (but the damage was done by then) and supporting TuQ whe every legitimate political party is against him. There is also that gem of a 4 hour marathon 'parday mein rehnay do' lecture.

Here we go , with hate mixed with politics & racism alltogather?
Was MQM the only one supporting musharaf?
What about others even those who toOk part in his refrendum?
& BTW why musharraf was bad?
Why & who made him COAS?
Keep this discussion to discussion dontrun it , good bad & the ugly shall we?

 

[Sedqal]

Here we go , with hate mixed with politics & racism alltogather?
Was MQM the only one supporting musharaf?
What about others even those who toOk part in his refrendum?
& BTW why musharraf was bad?
Why & who made him COAS?
Keep this discussion to discussion dontrun it , good bad & the ugly shall we?

How the heck is it racist? You ranting against PMLn and PPP are not racist but my pointing out MQM is racist? You are just proving my point. MQM and PMLQ helped Musharraf amusingly these two are also helping TuQ (no brainer). Musharraf was bad because he was a dictator who illegally overthrew a democratic Govt and because of whom we today have a full blown war going on in Baluchistan and a potential one in KPK. Who at the end of the day made NRO and hauled his sorry behind from the country?

Why doesn't this giant of strategic planning come back to Pk and try his luck in elections, we will see how many people support him. Or better put forth a SINGLE policy of Musharraf which you think benefited Pk.

 

[batmannow]

How the heck is it racist? You ranting against PMLn and PPP are not racist but my pointing out MQM is racist? You are just proving my point. MQM and PMLQ helped Musharraf amusingly these two are also helping TuQ (no brainer). Musharraf was bad because he was a dictator who illegally overthrew a democratic Govt and because of whom we today have a full blown war going on in Baluchistan and a potential one in KPK. Who at the end of the day made NRO and hauled his sorry behind from the country?

Why doesn't this giant of strategic planning come back to Pk and try his luck in elections, we will see how many people support him. Or better put forth a SINGLE policy of Musharraf which you think benefited Pk.

Wow,
What a unshamefull response!
Musharaf was bad because he was dictator!lol
What a reason? & who was responsible making an illegal appointment of another COAS gen.butt? & why?
Who was responsible oderring not to land his plane in pakistan?
BTW PPP was in demand at time for the militry takeover of musharaf & its workers & genrl public was seen distrbing sweets the day musharaf took the power?
& what about those musharaf supporters who aRe now in PPP & PMLn & other parties enjoying the luxries of life now?
Come on jst accept it, your biasd mind irks, when you even think that your gunjas-ul-sharifs were sent out of pakistan with pakistan economy destroyed , with karaz utaro mulk sanwaroo?
Who was sheikh rashid & faisal saleh hayat before the time of musharaf,s takeover??? & where are they now are they still afraid of musharaf?lol
Even today when a PPP seraiki governor took oath today, your PMLn showed their racism by not attending his oath? Why?
Ignorant of his you are, just check who was the one taking militry action against baluchi leadership? No you don't know cause you live your life on a laptop given by shabaz sharif croupt govt?lol let me tell you its was Z A bhutto who took frist militry action in baluchistan & there is no war in baluchistan its only sponsored terrorism by PMLn with the help of RAW?
Which is going on allover pakistan, hope you will remember salman tasser, GHQ attack , srilankan cricket team attack, & many others so, what it means there is a war going on in punjab???lol
I am not muhajir bt whats the problem giving them their due rights?
& dividing punjab into more smallar provinces, to create more unity?
There are smmallar nations living in pakistan , like hazara , seraikies, gilgities, with their seprete cultures. & languages, why shouldn't we give them equal opprtunity to serve the nation?
If a migrated spanish ,chinese,japanese,indian or pakistani can become american & british citizen & still can be called a spainsh american,chinese american,japanse british,indian british,pakistani british , why can't a pakistani hazara , seraiki , muhajir can't be called pakistani muhajirs, pakistani hazarans , or pakistani seraiki???
Just because we still are rulled by jageerdars who still want to rule us,like their hari,s & that's why they keep using hate, race, sects to make us live like sheeps & goats in their farm houses?
If we need to grow as a great nation, we should accept the rules of modren & civilized world?
Not using our superorty complexes, in the form of our hidden wishes to rule others with hate,racism,secternism with unlawfull & blind power?

 

[haviZsultan]

Now for the main course and I sure am salivating... :popcorn:

1) MQM is the sole representative of urdu speakers as PPP is for sindh, PMLN is for punjab, ANP is for pathans

Luffy said he was the representative of ALL lar (southern) Pashtuns in the past... I doubt you will agree with him and literally every member spanked him for this ridiculous suggestion. @Secur, @GIANTsasquatch and I bet dozens of others want the MQM destroyed if you refuse to count my opinion since I have openly stated that because of MQM chauvinism in specific and Muhajir behavior in general I have abandoned this race despite my birth in it.

The Baqai family of Karachi has constantly been against the MQM... i can name the memons too a lot of who are muhajirs too but now openly call themselves Sindhis. It is foolish to claim that these people do not count because all urdu-speakers/migrants do not vote for MQM. Racists do of course but my younger cousins etc are questioning the logic of their parents and the hate they spew against other ethnic groups. It is something Luffy did and the same statement you are making.

If you look at yourselves and the racist, bigoted claims you 2 make you will realize that they have exactly the same theories and lines of thinking: 4 characteristics are common to the rascist (self-glorification: how your role in everything was greater than that of everyone else, self-victimization or bemoaning how the world operated against so called fake term Muhajirs and shifting blame and denial.) These are found in both of you (you and luffy).

2) the violance begets violance, the illegal afghan immigration laden with weapons and drugs came to karachi, according to my understanding of things thats the time when APMSO, the student federation which eventually became MQM emerged

No one wants Afghans (nation) in their areas. I have talked to people in tribal areas for my book... they hate them, talked to Peshawarites they hate them too, Punjab has been so harsh that there are only a few Afghan (nation) families there. So lets stop turning a national issue into an ethnic issue which you are champions at. As far as Pashtuns are concerned or anyone else they have a right to go anywhere they want because Pakistan is a country, Karachi is a part of it. Unless you want to go to Pakhtunkhwa and kicked out you should abandon this racist behavior to them and every other ethnic group. My uncles have the same sick attitude and feel that Karachi is some God-given kingdom only and only for so-called Muhajirs.

Next time when MQM thugs are going to burn stores and kill innocent people I hope you remember violence begets violence and it is very possible u MQM chauvinists may become victims of it. Also note how crime and violence rose upon the rise of the MQM. Think of this. The MQM was initially formed as Muhajir Qaumi Movement in 1984. Between 1985 to 1990 at least 3000 people were killed in Karachi violence. You can ask your grandparents how peaceful this city once was. Then you guys say there should be no operation and 92, 94 was biased against you. I would like @Karachiite to think of this too but i won’t push as he has genuine reasons for being what he is. Don't you see the co-relation between the killings and MQM? Statistics reveal the co-relation between an increase in violence and MQM's rise.

I will cite an example of our city once was... one day a family friend of my dada was walking in the streets. Some guys surrounded him and tried to rob him. They had knives and brandished other crude weapons. They demanded all his money. He got worried and was looking very nervous when he handed the wallet. The robbers asked him what was wrong. He said that was all his earning, everything he had and he had to pay for the ailaaj of his mother who was sick at that time (you know how things were in the past and my father is from a poor family)... they let him go... not like know dhar dhar dhar MQM style and bodies are falling. Its happening daily and its because of our voting preferences.

But who is going to tell the people of Karachi to stop voting for MQM, PPP and ANP?

3) APMSO was founded among various talba unions of jamiyat talba of jamaat islami, PSF or pakhtoon students federation who had brought weapins to karachi university

4) the first shot of gun in karachi university was fired by jamiyat guys in KU

Darkinsky... you know these kind of uneducated posts my family makes too and it sets my blood on fire. I work with statistics, reports and papers. A journalist knows how to differentiate a person's internally built-in bias from the reality and he filters that out like channa filters out the residue from chai. Provide proof of what you say or keep quiet. I showed you the co-relation of violence between MQM's rise with cold hard statistics. I have more if you want but when u can’t agree with this... well....

6) most of the jamiyat guys consisted of pathans who along with PSF were a nuicense to other ethnicity in KU

5) the first guns which MQM got was through jamaat islami itself, MQM and jamaat had secretly formed alliance against the PPP

Another allegation by an intolerant person. Lots of mullahs are Muhajirs. I have an aunt too in JUI who is ethnic muhajir and if you sit a second with an uncle your head will be spinning, this guy votes MQM but is pure mullah without a beard. You have to pray... you have to just always be reading the Quran or praying when in front of him all the time. No social life, no mobiles. The poorer families amongst us (we were like that too but changing) migrants are often very intolerant.

So you admit you got guns... hmmmmm... so you support the violence they espouse against everyone in this fair city? Isolated incidents don't tell a reality. There was a Muhajir who threatened to kill Pathan mother and one of my cousins saw this guy protesting in the street once with a band of MQM killers behind him. This is who you vote.

6) the massacre of qasba aligarh was done by illegal immigrants of afghanistan who slaughtered mohajirs purely based on their ethnicity and it was done because they thought mohajirs were responsible for the army/police crack down on their drugs and weapons hub in al asif square

I think I have to respect you for this a little because not a lot of younger people know about the Aligarh massacre. They are just yapping what their elders tell them. First of all lets ask who the hell was responsible for the massacre. I am glad you did not say Pathan but said Afghan nationals. Yes. Now if an ugly dirty little Afghan attacks a Pakistani citizen regardless of ethnicity what is it? An attack by an Afghan terrorist on a Pakistani who has provided him shelter. And why was it sparked? Because the government at that time was indeed taking action against refugee colonies full of those dirty unwashed Afghan nationals. Don't mistake Luffy for a true Pashtun, i talk to Pashtuns they accept me as brother... no one as patriotic as them. One guy threatened to kill Afghans (nation)-you just need to understand people and look at yourself and your family... we can make an example but you don't want to... just want to repeat the past over and over like prodding a sore wound. It won't help, we need unity not hatred.

Man my issue is why we turn a national issue like this into an ethnic issue... chalo is tarah dekho issey. Instead we should work together. This is how the terrorists operate. They kill innocent people and people feel they have been wronged. Then basically they win your votes by repeating the fact constantly so that old memories are revived.

I am sure 1000's will come up to express sympathy with those innocents killed there man regardless of ethnicity. And the attack was condemned almost instantly by the chief minister and all parties. We cannot let a single incident turn us into assholes who don't give a damn about other people in our country and think of Karachi as a baap ki jageer. There is nothing more clear than the fact that MQM is involved in some of the most heinous crimes in this city and this incident helped no other party than the MQM. It is in their favor that the ethnic issue remain... which they have utilized to the best of their abilities.

Blaming another person for your mistakes is very easy @darkinsky but for the past 30 years it is Muhajirs who have been harassing others and murdering innocent people by voting for a terrorist party like MQM whether you accept it or not. It is really hard to understand how you turn yourself from a community with a GDP per capita that is higher than any other community, has the best jobs, lives in cities with the best facilities, have complete control of the provincial capital of Sindh to this oppressed weak community at the mercy of Pathans and Punjabis. It is impossible to understand why our family just has to feel so insecure and like you to re-inforce that they are different hate and bash other identities and look at history through a distorted lens.

And lets say some killings did occur, about 50 died, Ghous Ali Shah was cruelly negligent, lets imagine out of bias. Why the hell should this make us racists and murderers? Its time to look at the fact that we, our families voting preferences are the cause of all this. How it makes it right for you gun-totting MQM warriors to kill other ethnic groups and take bhatta and khaal from qurbani from innocent people? 4 crore were given to those victims. Do you know there is a policeman named Shahid killed by taliban who's case I received yesterday in a report on some victims of terrorism. His family hasn't received a single penny.

When you are at the top and say with fakhar "we made Pakistan" it is also your duty to strive for this country.

7) the maududi's own son has admitted that qazi hussain ahmed, liaquat baloch, munawar hasan was thugs and operated armed thugs who harrassed him and his family

8) so MQM faced armed thugs of illegal afghanis, jamaat islami and PSF

There always has to be someone who is blamed for the failures of the Muhajir community for the past 30 years. You will never admit these things. Its such a pity that the average mentality of the karachite is not far from the taliban sympathizer who keeps saying someone else is responsible to protect the terrorists from blame. You are the same thing. MQM against the world, Muhajir against the world? Why? Why can't we for once look at the world with another persons eyes?

Yes they are responsible TOO, a distant relative was even kidnapped by the PPP and Zardaris men, but why MQM which is the biggest party in this is not responsible at all? Wikileaks revealed that Farooq Sattar admitted that MQM had a role in the May 12 incidents to US.

Even media doesn't report on MQM's crimes:

“Even the local TV channels are told to not touch Mr. Hussain's life in their humorous caricatures like other politician,” a media-person in Karachi said. “Journalists are scared of attacks. As the media houses have their headquarters here (Karachi) so we are told not to touch the sacred cow!”

This is what those who suffered Qasba Aligarh are doing? Everyone can talk about dividing... few can about uniting. Why can't you guys be the better people and say even if we are oppressed we are not going to fall for race based politics. Where the hell does this end because last I checked Sindhis, Pashtuns Balochs and every other ethnic group feels oppressed. Is anyone going to rise above this and think about Pakistan?

Altaf Hussain had 3576 cases of corruption, torture, murder and many other heinous crimes filed against him. The NRO benefited him greatly.

9) ANP was the party which fired weapons on fatima jinnah's rally, the first pathans who came to karachi were sent by ayub khan to tackle the mohajir votes of fatima jinnah in the elections

Are you kidding me? You just proved yourself a fool... let me correct you. The formation date of the ANP is 1986 so they weren't even there in 1947. And you don't know a word of anyone else's history, even political history. How dare you try to defile Pashtun history on the other thread?

Let me tell you Ayub Khan's ascendancy was in every meaning of the term a National disaster which no patriotic son of a Pakistani mother can support. Why? Because it was a relative of Jinnah who is known as the father of Pakistan who was involved. I will repeat what I said earlier. What makes you think others have no link to this incident and don't condemn it... how did it magically became a Muhajir issue rather than a National issue. This is basically how akchishti and abdulnishapuri operate. Dividing, dividing, dividing for eternity. They raise problems that exist but they are opportunists perpetuating a myth and one-sided history.

Is there anything for which MQM is to blame or is it your responsibility as a MQM gun-slinger to toss all the blame onto someone else? Fatima Jinnah

And please don't give me racism. Pashtuns, Punjabis, Sindhis and everyone else will go where they want and I invite them all to Karachi. MQM thugs are worried about their mandate which comes from racist urdu speakers like us who lost members of family to become a disgrace to Pakistan and have a leader who calls partition a mistake and hosts the largest private army of target killers in the entire country.

And if you ever give me this rubbish that Pathans or Balochs are coming to Karachi I will treat you very much in the same way I treat Sher Malang. In case you didn't notice our families are standing on land (Karachi) stolen from the Sindhis. Let me explain exactly why. In 1947 the population of Sindhis in Karachi was 60%. Now it is barely 8%. So Muhajirs came to Karachi, Sindhis gave them shelter and instead of like them becoming Sindhis, we kicked them out of their houses and confiscated their land. What if they make this claim which you are now making for Pashtuns?

Very, very debauched, callous behavior to other races which frustrated me to the point that I wanted to lose all links to you MQM trolls even if it meant losing Muhajir identity.

Pashtuns entering Karachi has nothing to do with Ayub Khan. We have moved everywhere and if you don't believe read up on Bahadur yar jung and pataudi's and khans in India. The Pashtun is always a wanderer whose curiosity leads him to new places, as a poet once said.

10) jamaat islami enjoyed the majority of mohajir mandate since long time, till jamaat started operating armed thugs most of them from pathan backgrounds, then mohajirs stopped supporting jamaat after MQM emergence and shifted there entire vote bank to MQM

11) that was the time when urdu speaking pakistani community first started to use the word mohajir

Muhajir was first used in 1947... it seems it did not completely disappear for some reason. In either case as I explained it is a derogatory term. Lets say I switch it with donkey? In that case the collective gasp of my family and relatives will suck the air out of Karachi creating a vacuum so great that the simultaneous dhar-dhar-dhar of Kalashnikov's will not even be heard but funny how no one protests this term.

But still we want to maintain the good old term Muhajir. It has no common cultural root, no common historical root and we don't share the same language. People think its just gujrati marathi and even some telugu (usually the hyderabadi muslims speak another dialect of Urdu) but even the urdu varies in dialect. It is an abuse not far different to saying I am a donkey... research the word kochay (Pashto) and come back, you will know what it equates all people who migrated to. These people live in cities, have usually never seen villages and haven't traveled anywhere for years but somehow we are pilgrims. Amazing!

12) in 1970s bhutto made sindhi subject mandatory in sindh so practices by bhutto started ethnic strive and ethnic politics in karachi, separate sindhi quota in jobs, education, preference to one ethnicity totally based on his cultural background rather than merit, the high ranking officers were also chosen on ethnic lines, practically that was racism

So now we are supposed to stop Sindhis from speaking their language. Man @A.Rafay why you never involve yourself in debate. This guy seriously wants something. I am learning Pashto... i have no issues but somehow learning Sindhi will burn the bum of my so-called fellow muhajirs. Are we kidding here? It explains all that is wrong with you darkinsky. You just haven't accepted that all of us make Pakistan and they have a right to maintain their culture.

I hate bhutto because he killed us nationalists arresting key leaders and I know his actions started strife both in Balochistan, Bangladesh and even KP in some cases... but you should also know that he wasn't anti muhajir though I do not doubt his potential to be because he basically was extremely power-hungry and eliminated anyone who came in the way. It was in his time that Sindhi Nationalist GM Syed was jailed. So claiming he was some Sindhi stalwart is just bigotism and what you learned at birth at play.

13) PPP was made a sindhi party, it didnt accepted mohajirs on key posts, mohajirs were never promoted to important positions in the PPP, i have heard how benazir used to look down upon its on mohajir officials in PPP, so mohajirs were never respected in PPP politics, jamaat islami started becoming the party of pathans

Look you have to start giving sources now rather than insult each other party left and right to regurgitate the muhajirs are oppressed and have been wronged nonsense. Also it would be good if you stopped teaching your kids that they are better than every other ethnic group which our family have tried to do as well. I consider it one of the primary reasons of ethnic strife. We are basically raising little kids with bombs... they will obviously go out and shoot Pathans and Sindhis.

mohajirs never even asserted themselves as separate ethnicity, they only introduced themselves as pakistanis, but it was forced on us to adopt a political identity..

We were oppressed na... we were killed in millions by other evil Pakistanis not the Indians who killed about 250000 to a million of us.

How was it forced? These other races are so careful that they never even call our family muhajir. Let me tell you about my conversation. I was talking to a cousin, married now and her hubby not even muhajir. Sadly she learned from her parents. I asked we are in Sindh actually so we are Sindhis aren't we. She says no. I was like why?

She was like "Sindhi toh accept karna hi nahi hai hamein unko..." I ask have you ever tried? Ever talked to a Sindhi before and told him you are a Sindhi and he has said no, get lost u are Indian/. Chup ho gayi.

shahi syed calling mohajirs panah guzeers

Shahi Syed calling urdu speakers this, Zulfiqar mirza that, ghaus alio shah another thing... how long will we take ethnicity this seriously. Why not win these people with love and respect... why take everything so seriously. When you have a 13,000 ruppee higher gdp per capita than punjabis and much more than balochs who are at the bottom by the way then question is shouldn't we be helping them move to a better standard.

And why not try to understand him. Isn't he in a way right. They provided us shelter. Some muhajir families would have died in the street if they hadn't (Talking about Sindhis here)... why not respect them? Man I am telling you a case from Canada. We had this french speaker with pathetic english. I was in contact with some white guys and he usually hung out with him. I only knew them in passing. One day sitting at the cafe table all of them drunk they decided to provoke the french speaking quebec guy. I was watching and even tried to stop them thinking a big fight was going to occur because the stuff they were saying was maa behn ki galian. Quebec people have no culture, the language is like talking to dogs, only dogs can communicate quebec girls fornicate with... forget it... no need 2 explain everything. But that quebec guy was calm as a freakin cucumber. Never said a word in response. He was so disengaged from race. We believe race is everything and every political party even if it isn't based on ethnicity has its particular heartland's where its ethnicity mainly is.

Shahi Syed has a mouth like a gutter as does Zulfiqar Mirza but have to ask where the speeches of other leaders of the MQM go which call various ethnicities names. Why this selective morality? Just because we are from that ethnic group... Sorry!

I do not confirm to this and the standards set by society. We, the younger generation are the change and we must rise to the occasion for nation and people. Pakistan first second and last... those bigots, religious or ethnic will not be the ones who direct our destinies.