Split Discussion: Muhajir Identity

[somebozo]

I didn't expect this idiotic reply from you ... You are generalizing the actions of a single person and a political party for a whole bunch of people ! Do we have one more biased member here ?

I was just trying to reply the author in his own words..no generalization here but no sympathy with MQM walas either!

 

[bronxbull]

@haviZsultan

Good luck with reconciling with your identities,but dont even think of Azad deccan and stuff like that.And if you know Owaisi personally,be ready to be very unhappy.

 

[Spring Onion]

Just an observation. Punjab faced THE worst of partition yet Muhajirs who migrated from Indian Punjab to Pak Punjab are never discussed and appreciated in mainstream.

Because they dint have any Altaf Hussain to exploit the word by keeping rondustani victim card and at the same time asking for Pakistani favour

 

[Chak Bamu]

@darkinsky, I can clearly see an attempt to shift focus and blame. Why blame people of other ethnicities when you can not bring yourself to admit that Musharraf created a mess that was not there before him. Regional Nationalists are Pakistanis too. This is the same superiority complex surfacing to which havi alluded. Why do 'Mohajirs' have a hard time admitting that Musharraf was wrong? With views like yours you expect to blame Nationalists of other areas for what is wrong with Pakistan?

Pls open your eyes and see that this Mohajir identity thing has done more harm than good for both Pakistan and Karachi. It makes an educated and sensible person like you into a dictator-supporting faux pseudo-nationalist. You are contradicting yourself at every turn. Do you not see it? I understand your need to assume the identity of Mohajir, but then you certainly can not assume a moral high ground; you are just like others.

Bhutto and others before him did make a mess of Balochistan. Army gets the blame unfairly for being asked to step into an impossible situation. Zia-ul-Haq pacified Balochistan without firing a single bullet. And he was a dictator. If he could figure out that people need dignity and respect for their identity, why could not Musharraf? Why can not you? Ch. Shujaat & Mushahid Hussain had nearly solved the problem with their mediation, but Musharraf was blinded by his power. Same thing was repeated at Lal Masjid. Why must you support the unsupportable and that too just because Musharraf was an Urdu-speaker? Are the stereotypes in your mind more important than facts and reality?
@batmannow, I hope you understand the term 'racist' when someone actually does something to you for who you are. I have gone through the experience and believe me it is not pleasant and certainly not comparable to what is being discussed here.

 

[darkinsky]

@darkinsky, I can clearly see an attempt to shift focus and blame. Why blame people of other ethnicities when you can not bring yourself to admit that Musharraf created a mess that was not there before him.

did i hear you correctly? the mess of baloch separatism wasnt there before musharraf?? the baloch grievance wasnt there?

 

[Chak Bamu]

did i hear you correctly? the mess of baloch separatism wasnt there before musharraf?? the baloch grievance wasnt there?

Who in Pakistan does not have grievances? You might want to be a bit subtle in your effort to shift the discussion. I am not going to chase this new red Herring.

Balochistan was peaceful before Musharraf and not afterwards.

I had asked you to indulge in a bit of retrospection and I find you nit-picking at words. Typical.

 

[ice_man]

this is truly a pathetic thread!!! its sad how some people will love to go down to any level to play ethncity card! pathans or urdu speaking are equal!

MOST pathans don't support ANP they support ANP and MOST urdu speaking don't support MQM! yet both parties play the ethnicty card and 1000s die in karachi!

I pray that one day pathans and urdu speaking join together and get rid of BOTH ALTAF & ASFANDYAR! and support a NATIONAL party!

 

[darkinsky]

Who in Pakistan does not have grievances? You might want to be a bit subtle in your effort to shift the discussion. I am not going to chase this new red Herring.

Balochistan was peaceful before Musharraf and not afterwards.

I had asked you to indulge in a bit of retrospection and I find you nit-picking at words. Typical.

sir how is musharraf any way responsible for the baloch situation, can you please start elaborating instead of making useless accusations

let me ask this question, how is musharraf responsible when akber bugti and his armed militants sought weapons and started attacking the sui gas pipe line, and how is he responsible if they started attacking FC soldiers.. how is he responsible if bugti went paranoid

see you have no base to prove your point here

 

[Chak Bamu]

sir how is musharraf any way responsible for the baloch situation, can you please start elaborating instead of making useless accusations

let me ask this question, how is musharraf responsible when akber bugti and his armed militants sought weapons and started attacking the sui gas pipe line, and how is he responsible if they started attacking FC soldiers.. how is he responsible if bugti went paranoid

see you have no base to prove your point here

Let me re-iterate. There was no Balochistan problem BEFORE Musharraf. The problem was created by him threatening the old man and by using force against him. Musharraf disregarded the fact that Akbar Bugti was not only the sardar of Bugti tribe, but also a former Chief minister, and that he was crucial in convincing Baloch leaders to join Pakistan. These points are recent history. No amount of obfuscation can be used to ignore these facts. Only blind Musharraf lovers argue in circles like you are doing in this case.

I happen to have lived as a neighbor to retired Chief Secretary of Balochistan. He was livid at Musharraf for doing this. Akbar Bugti was pro-Pakistan and an asset to the federation of Pakistan. No amount of propaganda can wipe this out. Anything that came out of Musharraf's mouth or out of official propaganda outlets needs to be seriously questioned.

Bugtis were the keepers and protectors of Sui gas reservoir and the pipe line. It was their life line. During 1971 war, Bugti was very much concerned about the safety of Sui gas Installations. Upon his suggestion AA canon was arranged for the protection of Sui Gas Installation. Nobody had thought of it before. But once Musharraf made up his mind to use force needlessly, all bets were off. I am surprised that you do not know the background to all this. Should you be commenting so much on a defence and strategy forum when you exhibit such ignorance?

Now that you have proved my remarks that you are just as parochial as the people you condemn, let me ask simple questions: What does your bringing in Bugti has to do with this thread? How is he important in the context of 'Mohajir' identity?

Your insensitivity to the dignity of others by defending the indefensible is part of the problem and that points exactly to what haviZsultan has said.

 

[darkinsky]

Let me re-iterate. There was no Balochistan problem BEFORE Musharraf. The problem was created by him threatening the old man and by using force against him. Musharraf disregarded the fact that Akbar Bugti was not only the sardar of Bugti tribe, but also a former Chief minister, and that he was crucial in convincing Baloch leaders to join Pakistan. These points are recent history. No amount of obfuscation can be used to ignore these facts. Only blind Musharraf lovers argue in circles like you are doing in this case.

please dont distort the history, bugti was pro pakistani at some time doesnt make a fact that musharraf made bugti anti pakistani, i have specifically mentioned why musharraf made assults into bugti was because he was harbouring terrorists and created BLA which often attacked sui gas, its a fact believe it or not

Balochistan had several issues regarding the royalty being paid to them from the sui gas, i can post you youtube video of a fellow bugti who said that bugti in his end times became paranoid and ruthless killer, he operated many private jails where the his own bugtis got tortured, and he was killing many innocent people

bugti also once said that he was baloch for thousands of years, muslim for 1400 years and a pakistani for merely 60+ years

 

[Chak Bamu]

please dont distort the history, bugti was pro pakistani at some time doesnt make a fact that musharraf made bugti anti pakistani, i have specifically mentioned why musharraf made assults into bugti was because he was harbouring terrorists and created BLA which often attacked sui gas, its a fact believe it or not

Balochistan had several issues regarding the royalty being paid to them from the sui gas, i can post you youtube video of a fellow bugti who said that bugti in his end times became paranoid and ruthless killer, he operated many private jails where the his own bugtis got tortured, and he was killing many innocent people

bugti also once said that he was baloch for thousands of years, muslim for 1400 years and a pakistani for merely 60+ years

Your specific mention means nothing to me. Care to substantiate that 'specific mention' with credible evidence? You believe the official propaganda? You are gullible, but maybe it is just convenient because you are a Musharraf apologetic because he was an Urdu-speaker. Bugti did not create BLA, do not go on shooting arrows in the dark.

I have no problem with that quote of Bugti's. That is the truth as far as I am concerned. If it makes you uncomfortable, then that is your problem.

Now let me ask you again. What does this Bugti-related tangent have to do with the topic of this thread. Why are you so desperate to derail this thread?

 

[darkinsky]

Your specific mention means nothing to me. Care to substantiate that 'specific mention' with credible evidence? You believe the official propaganda? You are gullible, but maybe it is just convenient because you are a Musharraf apologetic because he was an Urdu-speaker. Bugti did not create BLA, do not go on shooting arrows in the dark.

I have no problem with that quote of Bugti's. That is the truth as far as I am concerned. If it makes you uncomfortable, then that is your problem.

Now let me ask you again. What does this Bugti-related tangent have to do with the topic of this thread. Why are you so desperate to derail this thread?

my dear hope about you substantiate your theories here that musharraf started all of this, why would musharraf go for bugti for nothing

because you are a Musharraf apologetic because he was an Urdu-speaker

oohh now this is interesting , i support musharraf for what he did to this country, and i forgot to mention he elected the first baloch prime minister of the country zafarullah khan jamali

 

[Sedqal]

Let me re-iterate. There was no Balochistan problem BEFORE Musharraf. The problem was created by him threatening the old man and by using force against him. Musharraf disregarded the fact that Akbar Bugti was not only the sardar of Bugti tribe, but also a former Chief minister, and that he was crucial in convincing Baloch leaders to join Pakistan. These points are recent history. No amount of obfuscation can be used to ignore these facts. Only blind Musharraf lovers argue in circles like you are doing in this case.

I happen to have lived as a neighbor to retired Chief Secretary of Balochistan. He was livid at Musharraf for doing this. Akbar Bugti was pro-Pakistan and an asset to the federation of Pakistan. No amount of propaganda can wipe this out. Anything that came out of Musharraf's mouth or out of official propaganda outlets needs to be seriously questioned.

Bugtis were the keepers and protectors of Sui gas reservoir and the pipe line. It was their life line. During 1971 war, Bugti was very much concerned about the safety of Sui gas Installations. Upon his suggestion AA canon was arranged for the protection of Sui Gas Installation. Nobody had thought of it before. But once Musharraf made up his mind to use force needlessly, all bets were off. I am surprised that you do not know the background to all this. Should you be commenting so much on a defence and strategy forum when you exhibit such ignorance?

Now that you have proved my remarks that you are just as parochial as the people you condemn, let me ask simple questions: What does your bringing in Bugti has to do with this thread? How is he important in the context of 'Mohajir' identity?

Your insensitivity to the dignity of others by defending the indefensible is part of the problem and that points exactly to what haviZsultan has said.

Agree with the Bugti part. Some people condemn him for being a Sardar without realizing that Baluchis are a tribal society and its a cultural thing there. Sardars are not progressive and can be quite ruthless in their behavior but that does not change the fact that they still enjoy their tribe's loyalty. Any force from center for changing this status quo will be met with hostility. The transformation from a tribal society will take time and Musharraf's adventures have only delayed it.

 

[A.Rafay]

Man @A.Rafay why you never involve yourself in debate.

I dont Involve in these debates which deal with ethnic, They turn really bad.

 

[Secur]

did i hear you correctly? the mess of baloch separatism wasnt there before musharraf?? the baloch grievance wasnt there?

Do we have even some grievances like that in the first place ? ... I do no think so ... Those people complain because of unequal opportunities and little development in their province and no improvement in their quality of true ... Will the same be true for us ?