Skewed Islamic culture hampers growth and success

[lastofthepatriots]

Educating girls in Pakistan is pointless because they choose not to work after they get married. Or they never work at all after attaining their degrees.

On the other hand, educating boys in Pakistan is pointless because they are not ambitious at all and regularly brag about cheating and taking back doors to getting what they want.

So it comes to the fact that Pakistanis don’t value education and do not use it to stimulate themselves, communities or even nation.

Educating Pakistanis is pointless because they are generally happy to be dumb as **** and live in mediocrity.

 

[hydrabadi_arab]

Turks are not typical Muslims. They are Greeks who converted to Islam and the Turkish language. You don't see another Turkic speaking country being high tech.

Modern Greeks live off western European success. Otherwise their culture is quite backward as far as economic growth is concerned.

 

[Zarvan]

I am going to discuss a prominent but overlooked reason for the downward spiral faced by majority of muslims nations.

A boy is raised different than a girl, at least from grade 8, or puberty on wards if not before.

This is manifested primarily in the concept of "chadar and chaar diwari" that restricts girls when it comes to exposure and by large over riding any influence that internet may have positively.

The male child at the same time, is exposed to the world and develops personality traits which are based on the foreign influences. Thus causing a gulf between the female and male child.

From henceforth until graduation the male child keeps experiencing and developing newer experiencing, and the gulf between the male and female keeps increasing.

The rude awakening to reality comes when it time for marriage, and the family sets a match based on what they think the boy and the girl are like, and what they aspire. This maybe true in case of a female child, but is not the case in case of the male child who has had strong influences since he went past grade 10.

The girl's vision is mostly restricted to the "home" and considers the home her universe and battle space should her position be challenged or she should choose to challenge the mother or sisters in law.

This creates a funny and unfortunate relationship, which is possible to continue only if the boy giveup and surrenders what he has learned ( right or wrong) or face the hell that the women create due to their refusal to accept or change.

The 50% of the population's inability to change, eventually drags the whole society down, impeding growth or exploration of newer paradigms.

Share your thoughts please.

Islam gives you solution. The so called progress in west has destroyed family structure and has led to more depression, broken families, deaths due to drug over dose. Even in west when a survey was done that given chance if women can stay at house and their husbands earn enough income to raise a family what will they choose and majority of women chose to stay home and raise children instead of doing job.

Educating girls in Pakistan is pointless because they choose not to work after they get married. Or they never work at all after attaining their degrees.

On the other hand, educating boys in Pakistan is pointless because they are not ambitious at all and regularly brag about cheating and taking back doors to getTing what they want.

So it comes to the fact that Pakistanis don’t value education and do not use it to stimulate themselves, communities or even nation.

Educating Pakistanis is pointless because they are generally happy to be dumb as **** and live in mediocrity.

Brother the country you are living in just check the ration of how many children who enter schools graduate from schools. Most of them run away after 7th grade and those who reach Universities are even lower. There are several other factors which count in a country's progress.

 

[313ghazi]

Educating girls in Pakistan is pointless because they choose not to work after they get married. Or they never work at all after attaining their degrees.

On the other hand, educating boys in Pakistan is pointless because they are not ambitious at all and regularly brag about cheating and taking back doors to getting what they want.

So it comes to the fact that Pakistanis don’t value education and do not use it to stimulate themselves, communities or even nation.

Educating Pakistanis is pointless because they are generally happy to be dumb as **** and live in mediocrity.

If you continue not to educate people, you continue the cycle of dumb-assery.

Also i have a great idea for getting women into the workplace. I call it mum-hours contracts. Women should be able to apply for jobs where they can work between 9am and 3pm, monday to friday, with the exception of school holidays where they are automatically given unpaid leave. This way professional mothers who's kids are in school can still contribute into the workplace.

I mean really before the 9am meetings what happens in an office other than tea/coffee? Also who is really all that productive after 3? I am, but i'm wierd, i don't get started till lunch and then the later it gets, the harder i work.

 

[lastofthepatriots]

If you continue not to educate people, you continue the cycle of dumb-assery.

Also i have a great idea for getting women into the workplace. I call it mum-hours contracts. Women should be able to apply for jobs where they can work between 9am and 3pm, monday to friday, with the exception of school holidays where they are automatically given unpaid leave. This way professional mothers who's kids are in school can still contribute into the workplace.

I mean really before the 9am meetings what happens in an office other than tea/coffee? Also who is really all that productive after 3? I am, but i'm wierd, i don't get started till lunch and then the later it gets, the harder i work.

The mindset of like 90 percent of the people here regarding morality and academia is skewed. And then comes into how archaic the institutions are as well.

This country is one giant mess.

 

[Iltutmish]

I find it really curious that Subcontinental males (whether Hindu or Muslim) are rather protective about "allowing" their female family members to participate in the workplace above a certain class/income level. This is often seen as a question of "Izzat" or family honor.

Bhai, Bangladesh did an amazing job by providing jobs for its citizens and due to its location and politics it can live a rather easy life. Pakistan on the other hand is in a more difficult geopolicital location and position (India, Afghanistan, Iran, China, Arabian Sea...). But this is not the topic.

Before marriage I told my wife that she can work only in a "fancy" position and she was okay with that and I told her that I will support her in any of her decisions as long it's a fancy job with some education needed. My wief is right now caring for our son and we are looking for a German course with good timings so she can learn more German (she understands everything, but has problems speaking it because of her shyness ). Because the best life insurance is an educated wife, because they are no guarantees in life. What if I die tomorrow? And the other thing is that we need educated mothers to raise educated smart kids.

So that said, of course I wouldn't be cool with the fact that my wife works in a low-skilled job. The 1000 Euro extra a month doesn't make or break our family budget, I worked hard to provide for my family. Did all the courses, worked, made experience so my parents and my family can have a more chilled life. What man is cool with the fact that his wife is working as a cleaning women? I am not demeaning cleaning personal, but you get my point. I worked as pupil and student part-time as cashier, hotline and in warehouses, I know how the supervisors speak to them, I know how customers regard them as sub-humans who know nothing. I once worked as a cashier and the system was very slow and the customer buying for bubble gum for 3,45 Euros gave me an attitude and insulted me with the most ugly words so that the store mange came and kicked the customer out. Do I really want this to happen to my wife when she works as cleaning women or casher? I am a man, I am responsible for my family and my wife has the choice either she learns hard and makes something great out of her or she stays a housewife and I am also cool with that. I am the provider and thank Allah for this!

Even in west when a survey was done that given chance if women can stay at house and their husbands earn enough income to raise a family what will they choose and majority of women chose to stay home and raise children instead of doing job.

Bhai, EVERY woman I met in my business life became a housewife after marrying and having children. If women have a choice they go for family life. Regardless the position, regardless the pay. Bangladesh is a poor country and in a poor country you have 100 childrens because of this: the more people work, the highter the income. But in affluent socities where one provider is enough, all the women go for a "conservative" family life.

All the achievements in history were done by great warriors, scientists, leaders and politicians who happened to be man (I know there are also queens and female scientists, but most were and are men). History is a big man biography so to speak. Pushing women out of their natural role as homemakers will lead to destruction of society. Nobody cares for children anymore, 24/7 childcare outsourced, lesser kids and a skyrocketing divorce rate and the state as sugar daddy who provides for the stupid decisions of women.

We need to emancipate ourselves of the Western notion that working women is something great or women have to go outside and work for other men to be recognized as "modern". Educate your girls and boys, make them doctors, engineers and all the fancy stuff with demand. But still we need women in our households to raise and educate children. There is reason why men and women are different!


AND: the situation of our womenfolk in the Islamic states is due to our pagan rituals we sell as Islam. Pakistani and their superficial Islamic identity are not the reason for our women suffering. We are busy dancing at darbars and chaining our women there, Islam is only good enough for our personal gain, nobody wants to act on Islam, it's just abused as tool to get your personal stuff done.

 

[313ghazi]

Bhai, Bangladesh did an amazing job by providing jobs for its citizens and due to its location and politics it can live a rather easy life. Pakistan on the other hand is in a more difficult geopolicital location and position (India, Afghanistan, Iran, China, Arabian Sea...). But this is not the topic.

Before marriage I told my wife that she can work only in a "fancy" position and she was okay with that and I told her that I will support her in any of her decisions as long it's a fancy job with some education needed. My wief is right now caring for our son and we are looking for a German course with good timings so she can learn more German (she understands everything, but has problems speaking it because of her shyness ). Because the best life insurance is an educated wife, because they are no guarantees in life. What if I die tomorrow? And the other thing is that we need educated mothers to raise educated smart kids.

So that said, of course I wouldn't be cool with the fact that my wife works in a low-skilled job. The 1000 Euro extra a month doesn't make or break our family budget, I worked hard to provide for my family. Did all the courses, worked, made experience so my parents and my family can have a more chilled life. What man is cool with the fact that his wife is working as a cleaning women? I am not demeaning cleaning personal, but you get my point. I worked as pupil and student part-time as cashier, hotline and in warehouses, I know how the supervisors speak to them, I know how customers regard them as sub-humans who know nothing. I once worked as a cashier and the system was very slow and the customer buying for bubble gum for 3,45 Euros gave me an attitude and insulted me with the most ugly words so that the store mange came and kicked the customer out. Do I really want this to happen to my wife when she works as cleaning women or casher? I am a man, I am responsible for my family and my wife has the choice either she learns hard and makes something great out of her or she stays a housewife and I am also cool with that. I am the provider and thank Allah for this!


Bhai, EVERY woman I met in my business life became a housewife after marrying and having children. If women have a choice they go for family life. Regardless the position, regardless the pay. Bangladesh is a poor country and in a poor country you have 100 childrens because of this: the more people work, the highter the income. But in affluent socities where one provider is enough, all the women go for a "conservative" family life.

All the achievements in history were done by great warriors, scientists, leaders and politicians. History is a big man biography so to speak. Pushing women out of their natural role as homemakers will lead to destruction of society. Nobody cares for children anymore, 24/7 childcare outsourced, lesser kids and a skyrocketing divorce rate and the state as sugar daddy who provides for the stupid decisions of women.

We need to emancipate ourselves of the Western notion that working women is something great or women have to go outside and work for other men to be recognized as "modern". Educate your girls and boys, make them doctors, engineers and all the fancy stuff with demand. But still we need women in our households to raise and educate children. There is reason why men and women are different!


AND: the situation of our womenfolk in the Islamic states is due to our pagan rituals we sell as Islam. Pakistani and their superficial Islamic identity are not the reason for our women suffering. We are busy dancing at darbars and chaining our women there, Islam is only good enough for our personal gain, nobody wants to act on Islam, it's just abused as tool to get your personal stuff done.

You made some really good points here. As I said in an earlier post, ultimately there is a biological restriction which means at times in their life, women must compromise between having a career and raising a family. Anyone who's been a parent can recall how much physical effort is required in raising an infant. It's not possible to spend the night breast feeding, or bottle feeding, or changing nappies then function productively during a 9-5. Some people do out of majboori, a few do out of stuborness but most women, make that compromise.

My wife works, Alhamdulillah I do okay for money, so my compromise with her was that it would not impact the raisng of our children. It doesn't make financial sense for me to work part time, so she can work those hours, to earn less money whilst i look after the kids. If she was making more money than me, i'd have no issue with it. Some people don't have that choice, both parents work. In our country even the children of the poor work.

What people don't realise is that most women working a full time job in the UK are doing it out of financial compulsion. The average house here has become so expensive, if you're not earning big money, both partners must be working to secure one.

 

[Bouncer]

majority of the times these girls uses their bodies as means to earn a living either through the **** industry or concepts like sugar daddy

MAJORITY? Are you one of those people who think everyone is having sex with everyone all the time everywhere in West?

 

[GumNaam]

In the western culture both boys and specially girls are forced out of their homes and left to fend for themselves after the age of 18, majority of the times these girls uses their bodies as means to earn a living either through the **** industry or concepts like sugar daddy, the open sexual culture of the western society means that by the time both men and women reach the age of 30 they have gone through hundreds of sexual partners, once you have gone through so many partners it is extremely difficult to be in a healthy monogamous relationship long enough to raise a healthy child together, that is why you are seeing two extremes in the western world:

1. The rate of marriage is rapidly declining, even the rate of staying in a long term monogamous relationship is also rapidly declining, there are multiple of reason of this happening a few I have mentioned above (alimony is another one).
2. Those who do get married, there is an extremely high chance of divorce taking place more than 50% within the first 5 years.

The western world is not an ideal example of a successful family setup, it encourages fornication and children being born to divorce parents and out of wedlock, an extremely unhealthy environment to be raised in, which repeats the cycle.

well what's stopping us from creating a true Islamic society where a baseline economic standard is maintained by the government by enforcing the responsibility on the men in the girl's family that they shall provide her with a roof over her head (even if it's his own roof), proper nutrition & an overall decent respectable standard of living so that she won't have to sell her body as in the west WHILE enjoying the freedom to educate herself and hold any rewarding career (so as long as it does not go against the basic tenants of Islam) & enjoying the kind of security where, as a hadith says, she can go from Yemen to Syria bouncing sacks of gold & silver in her hands without any fear in her heart except that of Allah?

 

[Iltutmish]

You made some really good points here. As I said in an earlier post, ultimately there is a biological restriction which means at times in their life, women must compromise between having a career and raising a family. Anyone who's been a parent can recall how much physical effort is required in raising an infant. It's not possible to spend the night breast feeding, or bottle feeding, or changing nappies then function productively during a 9-5. Some people do out of majboori, a few do out of stuborness but most women, make that compromise.

Yes. But the men-and-women-are-100-%-equal-brigade will disagree to this. German feminists even tell women to have NO KIDS at all until "real equality" is achieved. Yes, this is a good foundation for the future, right?

My wife works, Alhamdulillah I do okay for money, so my compromise with her was that it would not impact the raisng of our children. It doesn't make financial sense for me to work part time, so she can work those hours, to earn less money whilst i look after the kids. If she was making more money than me, i'd have no issue with it. Some people don't have that choice, both parents work. In our country even the children of the poor work.

At the end of the day it's the decision of the couple how to work and live together. Outsiders have no say in it, but as you correctly mentionend somebody needs to take care of the children. I always wonder why people here have children at all? Husband and wife work full-time, kids are at day-care or in school till late and when the parents come home they are tired from work and what kind of family life can they have? On the weekends and during summer break? Why do they have children in the first place when they are in third-party care most of the time? Children need dedication, they aren't pets!

What people don't realise is that most women working a full time job in the UK are doing it out of financial compulsion. The average house here has become so expensive, if you're not earning big money, both partners must be working to secure one.

Yes, sometimes there is a need of both husband and wife working, but I have a different philosophy because I have seen how my dad managed us back in the 80ies and 90ies, he never demanded from my mother to go outside and work as cleaning woman. As I mentionend latter thing created the stereotype that headscarf equals cleaning job. We struggled financially and had problems making ends meet, but daddy was a fighter and momma was always there for us children. Alhamdulillah. I want to give this security to my wife and child(ren) as well.

All the best to you and your family brother!

 

[OldenWisdom...قول بزرگ]

Bhaisaab - I appreciate your wisdom of course, but two incomes in a family are better than one, any day. Money is at the root of all betterments in societal and even religious pursuits. Without money one cannot build mosques. Having money does not make folks any less religious in our cultural setting.

No one is asking Bangladeshi apparel worker women to stop wearing their modest clothing (or even Hijaab) or to stop being mothers, but money is a necessity, even more so for lower income families. I'd say 85 to 90% of the apparel workers in Bangladesh, while lower middle class - have kept their religious values as Muslims. Women can do very little (adding value to the economy) by sitting at home.

Their rights as mothers, and responsibilities/honor as wives/daughters are mostly protected (the factories mostly have clinics and day care for the infants and meals).

This is 2021. If we are always suspicious of the West and keep blaming them for all ills we ourselves face and for the limits that we ourselves create as Muslims in our countries then that is a very sad commentary on ourselves, not anyone else.

@Indos what is the cultural dichotomy about Muslim women working in Indonesia, and societal mores restricting women outside the home? Is it believed that they can add more value to the economy being home-bound mothers?

Ultimately - I am quite open to any actual better ideas and successes thereof from other Muslim countries in providing better employment and futures for their worker populace other than what I have noted. We in Bangladesh will emulate them as necessary, just like we have emulated those from Tiger economies in South East Asia.

So, there is a disconnect here... we are not meeting on the same wavelength... Western project is inanimate, state recognizes no genders, genders are fluid and soon perhaps legislated as such. Each citizen is a tax payer! That monetary cycle the greater it is, better... generates funds that states uses to entice more out of the same, productivity numbers matter, so does repetition ad nauseum. Every identifiable human effort and interaction that can be monetized, is done.

Women are no different!
It is the wool over the collective eyes of humanity, personal greed, a tool and a control... our desire to earn ever more... as you said two incomes are better than one... they certainly are... they're now two people in a production line creating endless product... where one gets an ever diminishing debt note for bondaged hours.

It is not you alone we all think alike... our eyes set on Western aesthetics and happiness indexes showing Denmark as the happiest place on earth... My suggestion, go visit that state! It is the saddest place with runaway depression and every aspect of life under state control... We are all told ... this is what we should aim for...
Live to work... work to pay taxes... taxes for the ever growing state to keep legislating every aspect of life!

Coming back to your point... capitalism runs on slave work of humanity! Production lines ran rampant in the west before hitting east... it needs cheapest possible wage and highest possible profit...(poverty is essential to Capitalism, you cannot have an egalitarian society running on it... one must be exploited to help the lifestyle of other) more people willing to work in sweatshops... easier the lives of those living on Park Ave! Besides the fruits of all that hard labor are mere numbers, productivity! Clothes if not sold are burnt... goals met! But I'm going way to much on wayside.
Women must learn and be educated, but that knowledge should help protect them from not becoming slaves of instinct and help them distinguish...

Deeper it goes horrid it gets...

 

[Azadkashmir]

Educating girls in Pakistan is pointless because they choose not to work after they get married. Or they never work at all after attaining their degrees.

On the other hand, educating boys in Pakistan is pointless because they are not ambitious at all and regularly brag about cheating and taking back doors to getting what they want.

So it comes to the fact that Pakistanis don’t value education and do not use it to stimulate themselves, communities or even nation.

Educating Pakistanis is pointless because they are generally happy to be dumb as **** and live in mediocrity.

Education is also bull shit it is for elite that already got businesses and would like to send daughter n son join business after gradation. The poor graduate gets in debt, end up working in some job he didn't want.
Most guys i know that graduated including myself are doing jobs that nothing to do with their degree.
I observed my class ppl from high school to college to uni. i swear only ten to 20 percent pass and get somewhere after college or uni. but some got lucky, left school, got into cushty office jobs. In my town you need connection or be nice looking whore. It piss es me off when applying for jobs and get refused many times but you find some guy that you know has been hired, who is mediocre at the job but she/he has connections. So because of this bull shit a good percentage of ppl in my town are drug dealers. it does pay for some, living good life, investments, big houses, cars abroad etc. before you choose to do degree, look around your town what jobs are available for that qualification.

 

[عقاب]

Go to school collages universities? I see more girls in colleges and universities than boys, where are you living? We see that more educated girls creating confrontation, than ever before.

A Pakistani having bought this education is only good for destruction

population is educated according to the need of industry, to serve the capitalist, be it construction, computer, media or ****. That is what is being injected
Why are same book are same syllabus spread globally , UN spends big money to shape people into westernised person, not only that, they also make sure that children having immense potential like Pakistan and its likes feels honoured by getting the opportunity to polish the shoes of their western masters, and that these children shall never polish the shoe of bakr Abubakr Umar Uthman Ali and their likes

 

[Azadkashmir]

#

Go to school collages universities? I see more girls in colleges and universities than boys, where are you living? We see that more educated girls creating confrontation, than ever before.

A Pakistani having bought this education is only good for destruction

population is educated according to the need of industry, to serve the capitalist, be it construction, computer, media or ****. That is what is being injected
Why are same book are same syllabus spread globally , UN spends big money to shape people into westernised person, not only that, they also make sure that children having immense potential like Pakistan and its likes feels honoured by getting the opportunity to polish the shoes of their western masters, and that these children shall never polish the shoe of bakr Abubakr Umar Uthman and Ali and their likes

sach baya tu

 

[ApparentRaceTraitor]

In the western culture both boys and specially girls are forced out of their homes and left to fend for themselves after the age of 18, majority of the times these girls uses their bodies as means to earn a living either through the **** industry or concepts like sugar daddy, the open sexual culture of the western society means that by the time both men and women reach the age of 30 they have gone through hundreds of sexual partners, once you have gone through so many partners it is extremely difficult to be in a healthy monogamous relationship long enough to raise a healthy child together, that is why you are seeing two extremes in the western world:

1. The rate of marriage is rapidly declining, even the rate of staying in a long term monogamous relationship is also rapidly declining, there are multiple of reason of this happening a few I have mentioned above (alimony is another one).
2. Those who do get married, there is an extremely high chance of divorce taking place more than 50% within the first 5 years.

The western world is not an ideal example of a successful family setup, it encourages fornication and children being born to divorce parents and out of wedlock, an extremely unhealthy environment to be raised in, which repeats the cycle.

I will rebut and say that is almost exclusively the engineered decline of Yankistani culture by their leaders to ensure that the population remains focused on what pronouns are right to use so they can continue their own agendas unopposed. Most parents don't kick their kids out of their home and not every man/woman is a manslut/tart. Although I agree that the deregulation of the adult industry is pushing boundaries and not for the better. Western culture is not all about sex (well except like I said maybe the Americans but that could also very well be my bias against them)

When it comes to divorce in the west compared to the east I remember an interesting opinion by a former colleague, in the west people think about themselves rather than the kids before the decision to divorce under the assumption that an unhappy marriage is likely to hurt the kids (although this is also going to hold true if the divorce happens). For eastern marriages, usually one member of the duo just represses their unhappiness while thinking of the children and let's the pain fester for years and years until they either explode or become a cynical/mean twat to their children's spouses.

Neither way is superior however both are incredibly flawed in their assumptions that all marriages start and probably end under the same set of circumstances. A successful marriage is a synergy of respect, trust and pragmatism and it doesn't matter whether you're a Pakistani couple, an Indian couple, or an interracial couple, if one of the 3 are missing, the marriage will go nowhere (whether the couple divorce or continue with the sham) and the victims are ultimately the children.