Skewed Islamic culture hampers growth and success

[PakFactor]

Education is also bull shit it is for elite that already got businesses and would like to send daughter n son join business after gradation. The poor graduate gets in debt, end up working in some job he didn't want.
Most guys i know that graduated including myself are doing jobs that nothing to do with their degree.
I observed my class ppl from high school to college to uni. i swear only ten to 20 percent pass and get somewhere after college or uni. but some got lucky, left school, got into cushty office jobs. In my town you need connection or be nice looking whore. It piss es me off when applying for jobs and get refused many times but you find some guy that you know has been hired, who is mediocre at the job but she/he has connections. So because of this bull shit a good percentage of ppl in my town are drug dealers. it does pay for some, living good life, investments, big houses, cars abroad etc. before you choose to do degree, look around your town what jobs are available for that qualification.

Thats a fact up to 80% of graduates don’t work in the field if there degree. Unless you have an exceptional mind and want to research and develop hit up university. But vast majority jobs are button pushing and involve no real skill set.

I have an MBA from a top 20 school in the US but doing something completely different and unrelated to my degree. Those in the very top have jobs set for them by connections or privilege.

 

[Azadkashmir]

Thats a fact up to 80% of graduates don’t work in the field if there degree. Unless you have an exceptional mind and want to research and develop hit up university. But vast majority jobs are button pushing and involve no real skill set.

I have an MBA from a top 20 school in the US but doing something completely different and unrelated to my degree. Those in the very top have jobs set for them by connections or privilege.

the only ones i saw that got the actual job they did degree in were 1 percent minority and lived drink eat education or were the blessed ones with great mind. i know this girl from school she was partially deaf so they used her wireless microphone to allow her to hear properly but damn she was 10- A star gcse student then many years later i see her working in doctor surgery as ear doctor. her older sister got same results before her. it runs in thier blood but the guys are dumb as fcuk taxi drivers.

 

[Sinnerman108]

Well people with hidden agenda dont like it when bluntly exposed. You are one of those. Your choice of words also expose ur inner filth and prejudice against Islam and our culture. People like u are mental slaves of the west and their filthy culture. It also shows ur lack of education outside that of western culture and ur lack of common understanding or history. People like u are the ones who instantly become slaves and loyal servants of the enskavers.
The very fact that u criticise a noble culture of chadar and char dewari shows u may as well be a faggot and protesting for homosexuality. You think the western society is superior and better shows how naive u are. Having lived in western society i say no matter how backward, we still are a thousand times better than that filth. People like u propagating western culture are the reason our society is going down the drain.
The thought of well educated and positive character?? Typical words used by western chamchas to gain moral high ground.. well educated means shun ur culture n become chamcha of west? With ur logic, u must think of urself as too well educated lolz.

This post is a near perfect personification of what is wrong with us.
I hope the poster can visit his post back after a few years, and maybe correct himself,

Until such time, @WebMaster Qibla, is to frame kara ke rakh lo.

Brother - some folks obviously have their minds made up. Which is their right.

As a Bangladeshi my thoughts may not echo those of most folks in Pakistan, where people may be a bit more Islamic minded and conservative.

I believe Indonesia is rather open and liberal as an Islamic country.

Bangladesh lies somewhere in between.

I find it really curious that Subcontinental males (whether Hindu or Muslim) are rather protective about "allowing" their female family members to participate in the workplace above a certain class/income level. This is often seen as a question of "Izzat" or family honor.

But at or below lower middle class of course it does not matter, which is the Bangladesh situation currently.

There are many female business leaders in Bangladesh (CEO's), and of course the president and the leader of the opposition happens to be female as well.

I don't know if such leadership situations would be allowed in Pakistan.

This will take time, and this is why I will write another thread on Education system and it's contention with Islamic scholars.

 

[Bilal9]

Well people with hidden agenda dont like it when bluntly exposed. You are one of those. Your choice of words also expose ur inner filth and prejudice against Islam and our culture. People like u are mental slaves of the west and their filthy culture. It also shows ur lack of education outside that of western culture and ur lack of common understanding or history. People like u are the ones who instantly become slaves and loyal servants of the enskavers.
The very fact that u criticise a noble culture of chadar and char dewari shows u may as well be a faggot and protesting for homosexuality. You think the western society is superior and better shows how naive u are. Having lived in western society i say no matter how backward, we still are a thousand times better than that filth. People like u propagating western culture are the reason our society is going down the drain.
The thought of well educated and positive character?? Typical words used by western chamchas to gain moral high ground.. well educated means shun ur culture n become chamcha of west? With ur logic, u must think of urself as too well educated lolz.

We can all have our opinions (and agree to disagree in decent manner) but accusing people like the OP openly about having deliberate agendas is a bit harsh - n'est ce pas?

And not all of West is filthy culture - I live here in the US, attended Juma'a and events routinely at my Mosque nearby (until recently due to Covid) and guess what, the Imam is a learned Pakistani man with a Ph.D. in Islamic Jurisprudence! Masha'Allah! I don't think this lifestyle would exist in Bangladesh.

Why do so many Pakistanis and Bangladeshis (among millions of other Muslims) live in such filthy Western countries - where (I'd argue) they live a far more religious life than even back in their home countries? There are cities in the US where open-air Ath'aan is even allowed as they are majority Muslim/Bangladeshi (Hamtramck).

Also - let's put forth some questions and proposition (I'm all ears),

1. How would a noble Islamic culture-led theocratic development (in material and wealth terms) in an Islamic country (Pakistan, Bangladesh, Indonesia, Turkey) be BETTER than their current situations which (like you said) was "Western Culture" inspired, if one were to reject such Western influence outright?
2. How would an Islamic theocracy survive if they do not utilize their manpower (or womanpower) to add value that other countries will support (exports)? Our poorer Islamic countries can't survive on internal consumption alone.
3. Where will the Roti-Kapra-aur-Makan for the poor come from?
4. When Iranian and Saudi oil runs out - where will their unproductive citizens go? Even Saudi is trying to change the handouts they give to their citizens monthly.
5. Should the rest of the non-Arab "miskeen" Islamic countries try to ape how Saudi and Iran are run? Are they in that situation?

And most importantly - can any alternative to gender parity (allowing women to work) exist (when Hijab and gender parity can coexist)?

This is Ilhan Omar - she is an ultra modern Muslima, a millennial, political influencer and congress woman from Minnesota. She also lives in the filthy West. But difference is - she is staying here (her new country, being an ex-refugee) and trying to instill CHANGE (make it better for the Muslims who live here and also for those in Palestine and other places).

 

[Mujahid Memon]

oh for GOD'S sakes make...has this REALLY been the norm for our girls for the last few centuries??? what you are showing right now is at BEST a 50 year old phenomenon

I thought you were talking about 21st century

He is living in the 21st century buddy...the century where mullahs still call girls as "half brained" creatures based on false ahadith and are now getting bombed by the "half brained" creatures from the kafir side flying jet fighters while our Muslim girls are forced to remain under developed!!!

and has NOT reached the majority of the female population of either Pakistan or other mainstream Muslim nations.

The majority of boys/men don't have higher education as well. Why are you making it a gender issue. Even girls/women are doing better in education sector than boys/men

Just look at the disparity of even high school/intermediate level education of women in the west vs. women in Muslim nations

Just look at the disparity of even high school/intermediate level education of men in the west vs. men in Muslim nations Pakistan (I can only speak on behalf of Pakistan rn)

then couple that with the brow beaten saying in our average house holds that "larkiyan to parai hi hoti hain, parha kay kia karain gey, ghar garasti aur bawarchi khaana sambhaal na sikhao aur bas"...

Bro you are living far from reality. Women now-a-days want parhi likhi or doctor bahu for their sons, and this "larkiyan to parai hi hoti hain" is a common dialogue in Indian movies/dramas. I have never heard such a thing in reality.

unfortunately THAT is the mainsteam thinking and it is vhemently promoted by the mainstream mullahs!

I am going to masajid/madrassas for more than 20 years and I swear I have never heard any mullah saying that men should be allowed to educate and women don't. All they say is that gender mixing is not allowed which is targeted at both men and women (though I am not in favor of segregation) and against other degeneracies happening in universities such as music, dance parties etc.

And before making a gender issue do tell what our universities have given to "privileged men and women" except making them lakeer kay faqeer. First make the education system better before advocating for any more degree holding zombies who don't know even basic concepts of the discipline for which their parents wasted millions of rupees.

 

[Indos]

We can all have our opinions (and agree to disagree in decent manner) but accusing people like the OP openly about having deliberate agendas is a bit harsh - n'est ce pas?

And not all of West is filthy culture - I live here in the US, attended Juma'a and events routinely at my Mosque nearby (until recently due to Covid) and guess what, the Imam is a learned Pakistani man with a Ph.D. in Islamic Jurisprudence! Masha'Allah! I don't think this lifestyle would exist in Bangladesh.

Why do so many Pakistanis and Bangladeshis (among millions of other Muslims) live in such filthy Western countries - where (I'd argue) they live a far more religious life than even back in their home countries? There are cities in the US where open-air Ath'aan is even allowed as they are majority Muslim/Bangladeshi (Hamtramck).

Also - let's put forth some questions and proposition (I'm all ears),

1. How would a noble Islamic culture-led theocratic development (in material and wealth terms) in an Islamic country (Pakistan, Bangladesh, Indonesia, Turkey) be BETTER than their current situations which (like you said) was "Western Culture" inspired, if one were to reject such Western influence outright?
2. How would an Islamic theocracy survive if they do not utilize their manpower (or womanpower) to add value that other countries will support (exports)? Our poorer Islamic countries can't survive on internal consumption alone.
3. Where will the Roti-Kapra-aur-Makan for the poor come from?
4. When Iranian and Saudi oil runs out - where will their unproductive citizens go? Even Saudi is trying to change the handouts they give to their citizens monthly.
5. Should the rest of the non-Arab "miskeen" Islamic countries try to ape how Saudi and Iran are run? Are they in that situation?

And most importantly - can any alternative to gender parity (allowing women to work) exist (when Hijab and gender parity can coexist)?

This is Ilhan Omar - she is an ultra modern Muslima, a millennial, political influencer and congress woman from Minnesota. She also lives in the filthy West. But difference is - she is staying here (her new country, being an ex-refugee) and trying to instill CHANGE (make it better for the Muslims who live here and also for those in Palestine and other places).

First it should be clear that Islam is very pro education for both men and women. The task to read (Iqra) in Quran is for both man and women, so it is clear that both gender has obligation to educate themselves, hence it should also be the obligation for the parent and also government to educate their daughters and female citizens.

Talking about working women, prophet Muhammad first wife, mother Khadijah, is a success entrepreneur right ? And during her life prophet Muhammad got huge trials and Muslims were still so few. It is his first wife mother Khadjah that I believe finance prophet Muhammad dakwah as he is focusing to get people into Islam and look like abandoning his own business due to fulfil his duty as messenger of God. IMO As long as the women still do her duty as mother, it should not cause any problem.

This is the family of quite prominent Indonesian Ulama, Quraish Shihab. All of his kids are female and they are quite successful, one of them is Najwa Shihab, a famous journalist, and there is also one who is a success entrepreneur. Quraish Shihab also doesnt enforce Hijab to his own family as it should be coming from the heart of the individual as in Quran it said that there is no compulsion in Islam.

Daughters of famous Ulama in Indonesia, Quraish Shihab

 

[TNT]

We can all have our opinions (and agree to disagree in decent manner) but accusing people like the OP openly about having deliberate agendas is a bit harsh - n'est ce pas?

The OP has a history and accusing islam for hampering growth on a forum of muslims is rude. Try that in a hindu forum or a Jewish forum and ull realize we are the most kind ppl.

And not all of West is filthy culture - I live here in the US, attended Juma'a and events routinely at my Mosque nearby (until recently due to Covid) and guess what, the Imam is a learned Pakistani man with a Ph.D. in Islamic Jurisprudence! Masha'Allah! I don't think this lifestyle would exist in Bangladesh.

Why do so many Pakistanis and Bangladeshis (among millions of other Muslims) live in such filthy Western countries - where (I'd argue) they live a far more religious life than even back in their home countries? There are cities in the US where open-air Ath'aan is even allowed as they are majority Muslim/Bangladeshi (Hamtramck)

Well i guess allowing u ppl to pray is a big deal yeah. Afterall the hijab ban is soon around the corner.
Those ppl living in west is their personal choice with which i disagree. They might try to live a more religious life but how long will that last? Once their offspring grows up in that society, then the fun begins. I remember a pindi guy in UK used to cry because his daughters grew up and started having black and white bfs and spending nights with them. I told him what did u expect will happen when living in a western country. What will open azaan achieve when ur living on a banking system of sood and ur tax money goes to help israelis kill Palestinians.

How would a noble Islamic culture-led theocratic development (in material and wealth terms) in an Islamic country (Pakistan, Bangladesh, Indonesia, Turkey) be BETTER than their current situations which (like you said) was "Western Culture" inspired, if one were to reject such Western influence outright?

Good question and this requires a detailed discussion. Our current system is based on the same soodi system of west. We are in the hypocrisy range as neither fully Islamic nor western. Our elites are inspired by west and tries to copy them while showing off as good muslims. How will it be better? Well for that u should study history and also understand what is "better" for muslims.

How would an Islamic theocracy survive if they do not utilize their manpower (or womanpower) to add value that other countries will support (exports)? Our poorer Islamic countries can't survive on internal consumption alone.

Who said not to utilize manpower or womenpower? I said in my earlier reply that women were allowed to go to mosques, Ayesha RA taught Islam to muslims as a teacher. Who denied importance of women? What i disagreed with, is the OP terming Islamic culture as hindrance to development. We dont need to mix male and female to develop, we dont need to shun culture of chadar and char dewari to develop, we dont need to become westerners to develop. Afterall its been the western inspired liberal parties in Pakistan that destroyed us and did corruption.

Should the rest of the non-Arab "miskeen" Islamic countries try to ape how Saudi and Iran are run? Are they in that situation?

I never portrayed these countries as epitome of islamic culture, infact they are much bigger hypocrites.

And most importantly - can any alternative to gender parity (allowing women to work) exist (when Hijab and gender parity can coexist)?

I am not against women working, infact they have a huge role to play. Its women that raises future generation and their training and education is more important. For that, we do not need to become westerners. I am against our stupid mullahs banning women from masjids. If they can go to schools, markets and jobs, they should as well be allowed to go to mosques.

 

[Bilal9]

First it should be clear that Islam is very pro education for both men and women. The task to read (Iqra) in Quran is for both man and women, so it is clear that both gender has obligation to educate themselves, hence it should also be the obligation for the parent and also government to educate their daughters and female citizens.

Talking about working women, prophet Muhammad first wife, mother Khadijah, is a success entrepreneur right ? And during her life prophet Muhammad got huge trials and Muslims were still so few.

It is his first wife mother Khadjah that I believe finance prophet Muhammad dakwah as he is focusing to get people into Islam and look like abandoning his own business due to fulfil his duty as messenger of God

As long as the women still do her duty as mother, it should not cause any problem.

This is one of the famous family of quite prominent Indonesian Ulama, Quraish Shihab. All of his kids are female and they are quite successful, one of them is Najwa Shihab, a famous journalist, and there is also one who is a success entrepreneur. Quraish Shihab also doesnt enforce Hijab to his own family as it should be coming from the heart of the individual as in Quran it said that there is no compulsion in Islam.

Daughters of famous Ulama in Indonesia, Quraish Shihab

View attachment 747435

Masha'Allah wonderful and great to know this! Wonderful family.

We should not be limiting and prohibiting education from any of our Sisters in Islam.

Islam has no compunction - and there is no jurisdictional basis to hold back Muslimas in any educational or career endeavors.

We have many women Entrepreneurs too, one is Nahila Hedayet, she is older and sort of a business role model for women in Bangladesh.

 

[Indos]

Masha'Allah wonderful and great to know this! Wonderful family.

We should not be limiting and prohibiting education from any of our Sisters in Islam.

Islam has no compunction - and there is no jurisdictional basis to hold back Muslimas in any educational or career endeavors.

We have many women Entrepreneurs too, one is Nahila Hedayet, she is older and sort of a business role model for women in Bangladesh.

Does she already have a husband ?

Yup that is right, even 2 of my sisters ( I only have 2 sisters) are masters degree holder (Medical Doctor specialist is similar with Master right ??) , exceeding my education......

 

[Indos]

But there is nothing wrong as well if a husband wants his wife at home, taking care of the children. Actually I prefer this one or work with their husband business instead of working with other people, so the wife can continue the business if their husband pass away before their kids get full education and enough working experience to lead the business

 

[SpaceMan18]

The OP has a history and accusing islam for hampering growth on a forum of muslims is rude. Try that in a hindu forum or a Jewish forum and ull realize we are the most kind ppl.

Well i guess allowing u ppl to pray is a big deal yeah. Afterall the hijab ban is soon around the corner.
Those ppl living in west is their personal choice with which i disagree. They might try to live a more religious life but how long will that last? Once their offspring grows up in that society, then the fun begins. I remember a pindi guy in UK used to cry because his daughters grew up and started having black and white bfs and spending nights with them. I told him what did u expect will happen when living in a western country. What will open azaan achieve when ur living on a banking system of sood and ur tax money goes to help israelis kill Palestinians.

Good question and this requires a detailed discussion. Our current system is based on the same soodi system of west. We are in the hypocrisy range as neither fully Islamic nor western. Our elites are inspired by west and tries to copy them while showing off as good muslims. How will it be better? Well for that u should study history and also understand what is "better" for muslims.

Who said not to utilize manpower or womenpower? I said in my earlier reply that women were allowed to go to mosques, Ayesha RA taught Islam to muslims as a teacher. Who denied importance of women? What i disagreed with, is the OP terming Islamic culture as hindrance to development. We dont need to mix male and female to develop, we dont need to shun culture of chadar and char dewari to develop, we dont need to become westerners to develop. Afterall its been the western inspired liberal parties in Pakistan that destroyed us and did corruption.

I never portrayed these countries as epitome of islamic culture, infact they are much bigger hypocrites.

I am not against women working, infact they have a huge role to play. Its women that raises future generation and their training and education is more important. For that, we do not need to become westerners. I am against our stupid mullahs banning women from masjids. If they can go to schools, markets and jobs, they should as well be allowed to go to mosques.

Allah gave my nation aka Bangladesh access to the oceans and somewhat fertile land and just big enough land for growth. So I'm pretty sure Allah wants the best lol , but my people did not make the most use out of it and rather decided to become corrupt and steal money.


But seriously though , the Muslim world needs to reform and become better and more free thinking Muslims if we want to be the best and technologically advanced.

The Christians in Europe went through reformation but we did not , no wonder the Europeans kicked our asses when they found out how to use science and inventions for there own benefits.

 

[Indos]

Allah gave my nation aka Bangladesh access to the oceans and somewhat fertile land and just big enough land for growth. So I'm pretty sure Allah wants the best lol , but my people did not make the most use out of it and rather decided to become corrupt and steal money.


But seriously though , the Muslim world needs to reform and become better and more free thinking Muslims if we want to be the best and technologically advanced.

The Christians in Europe went through reformation but we did not , no wonder the Europeans kicked our asses when they found out how to use science and inventions for there own benefits.

The Christian in Europe become so success IMO is due to the promise of God in Torah (and then it is reported again in Quran) saying the Jesus follower will lead the world, Jesus himself is basically failed (compare to the success of prophet Muhammad and Islam in its beginning period)

Look like God make promise to Jesus (prophet Isa) himself, so it is the fulfilment of God promise.

I will try to find the exact Quran verse talking about that.

--------------------------

The follower of Jesus (prophet Isa) is Christian and Muslim (true followers)

Quran, Ali Imran verse 55

God said, "O Jesus, I shall take you to Me and will raise you up to Me and shall clear you [of the calumnies] of the disbelievers, and shall place those who follow you above those who deny the truth, until the Day of Judgement; then to Me shall all return and I will judge between you regarding your disputes

 

[TNT]

The Christian in Europe become so success IMO is due to the promise of God in Torah (and then it is reported again in Quran) saying the Jesus follower will lead the world, Jesus himself is basically failed (compare to the success of prophet Muhammad and Islam in its beginning period)

Look like God make promise to Jesus (prophet Isa) himself, so it is the fulfilment of God promise.

I will try to find the exact Quran verse talking about that.

--------------------------

The follower of Jesus (prophet Isa) is Christian and Muslim (true followers)

Quran, Ali Imran verse 55

God said, "O Jesus, I shall take you to Me and will raise you up to Me and shall clear you [of the calumnies] of the disbelievers, and shall place those who follow you above those who deny the truth, until the Day of Judgement; then to Me shall all return and I will judge between you regarding your disputes

I think you are misunderstanding the verse. These people that u call Christians are not true Christians or believers, they are mushrik as they do shirk. The verse clearly puts believers above those who deny the truth, so do u suggest today's muslims are ones that deny truth and Allah put these Christians above? Please avoid correlating events with Quran that have no clear correlation and also be very careful in interpreting the Quran.

 

[Numerous]

Islam has no compunction - and there is no jurisdictional basis to hold back Muslimas in any educational or career endeavors.

I really don't think Islam encourages career women in the way you think it does. Using Khadijah (ra) as an example isn't good either because she had her business as a result of her deceased previous husband and that also was also present before Islam and her marriage to the Prophet (pbuh). Whereas the majority of Prophet's (pbuh) wives did not work or seek to emulate Khadijah in that. Rather they stayed at home AFAIK. The vast majority of the women of the sahaba did not seek to become businessmen or have imitate the men in careers.

This whole pursuit of pushing women into careers is just a materialistic endeavour to increase GDP. And having the highest GDP is not really a good sign of success. Some of you really want it but if these dreams of women mass entering the workforce and having careers like men come true then you're going to start having more social problems just like the west.

 

[Numerous]

This is Ilhan Omar - she is an ultra modern Muslima, a millennial, political influencer and congress woman from Minnesota. She also lives in the filthy West. But difference is - she is staying here (her new country, being an ex-refugee) and trying to instill CHANGE (make it better for the Muslims who live here and also for those in Palestine and other places).

Ihlan Omar is awful. She is literally married to a non-Muslim. The ex-wife of that non-Muslim divorced him because she said he was having an affair with Omar. Secondly Omar openly supports the lgbt movement and she has called parts of the sharia barbaric. You say she tries to help Muslims but she literally tried to sanction our Brunei brothers after they tried to add some laws against lgbt.

No Muslim man should want muslim women to become like this vile creature. Being dead is better to have a wife or daughter who is like this.