Skewed Islamic culture hampers growth and success

[Iltutmish]

So what if i can use my device right now? Should i start prostrating to them because they gave us devices or other stuff that we paid for???

And what these people always forget: without customers, there is no innovation. Supply and DEMAND are drivers of innovation. It’s not like that we get all the fancy tech for free.

 

[SpaceMan18]

So what if i can use my device right now? Should i start prostrating to them because they gave us devices or other stuff that we paid for??? What kind of slave mentality is that?? I can also say they were able to make these devices because of the basics of algebra that they got from muslims, the basics of chemistry that they got from muslims. I never see Europeans telling each other to respect muslims for it. They were living in dark ages when muslims were inventing.

Now times changed and its because of our own fault. We stopped following the meritocratic system that Islam teaches, we became corrupted and complacent. We need to fix ourselves and society and innovation and revolution will come then. Following the west, blaming Islamic culture and trying to become western chamcha wont solve our problems.

No one here blamed Islam lol , we are blaming the radicals

 

[OldenWisdom...قول بزرگ]

Cultural appropriation is fundamentally flawed in it's holistic implementation, it lacks local context and discourse. Western model has a pretext that manifests in current predicament... it has more to do with their historic overarching/overbearing state models that were and continue to inject themselves in daily lives of every individual. The medieval fiefdoms all appointed with a proper castle, to the rule of church and pope has left a lasting impact on current behavior and thought process of individuals to this day.

When British royalty allowed people to form their own laws in lieu of their perpetual existence as sovereigns, it unintentionally setup a matrix a self-fulfilling one... that pervades to this day, ever evolving. So, when women's very option to work or not to work is taken away in an automatic assumption, that they must work... there is no choice. As state remains inanimate, it cares not the gender of it's taxpayer. So, to sell this very paradigm, a rosy picture is sold, something that projects others as subjugated and without a choice, while the opposite remains true.

Strong structural overbearance is just one aspect... the other is collectivist culture making it easier to have a conforming society... putting pressure on stragglers or dissenters to adapt/conform. Pressure to look a certain way, dress, speak, work, eat etc.

Historically, society's direct and total control by an autocratic ruler would invariably have the work and effort of it's subjects directed towards personal benefit... The Pharoahs of Egypt built essentially elaborate tombs, an ode to themselves and their perceived greatness.

So, when someone comes along saying they wished the women here worked in a marketplace or for their's or society's benefit...
Women, who're otherwise in a position of comfort, have choice(s), obviated from the mandate of economic welfare of her kin... Should they?

Besides if one's self respect and self esteem is taken away, outsiders set benchmarks of success and esteem in their own image.
So question the motivations and proclivities of people trafficking in such dispositions.

 

[El Sidd]

No one here blamed Islam lol , we are blaming the radicals

Why are you a space man? Why not a space woman?

Anyhow i was reading the chadar and char diwar argument. We have enough scientific data on pandemic to study psychological impacts of lockdowns and home environment on men and women.

The results may radicalise you.

 

[redtom]

My personal opinion is that the first thing to determine is what do you really want. If you want to get gas, you should go to a gas station, not a coffee shop. Maybe you love the coffee shop, but there's still no gas.

If you want the country to be strong, first of all you have to decide, what is the manifestation of the country being strong? Economy, industry, military, science and technology. Some people believe that culture may determine a person's behavior, and that a person's behavior determines how well he or she performs at work.That may be true.But it's not straightforward or useful.

The economy needs a lot of well-run companies with good people.Industry needs factories with sufficient skills and quantity, and a high-quality labor force.The military needs a lot of advanced weapons and well-trained soldiers.Science and technology need a large number of excellent scientists, engineers and skilled workers. And all of them need a good education.

So the first step is how to make education fair and good for all.Any culture that prevents children from getting an education is the key problem that holds back the development of the country.Denying one's own culture is dangerous and unrealistic.You just need to find the right path to develop the country and then change the culture that stands in the way of those paths.

 

[Ahmet Pasha]

What an İslamophobic thread bruh

 

[Adecypher]

IMHO the OP is confused and trying to pin the flaws in muslim societies on Islam which is NOT done the first time and will probably NOT the last time.

On Impact of Chadar and Chaar Diwari:
If you ONLY pivot the success to NOT having "Chadar and Chaar Diwari" like in the west then I guess you will be surprised to know the prevalent divorce rates and huge number of single parenting homes in western Countries which are creating a different problem of its own so therefore the notion of “Chadar and Chaar Diwari” presenting a hurdle for a society to not embracing ingenuity is false.

On disparity between treatment of Male vs. Female Child:
May be this is my observation that in the last decade or so w.r.t Pakistan things have changed for better for the girl child in the family i.e. they are more independent then before... their enrollment in educational institutions and their academic performance is better than boys and thus are entering into professional jobs faster than before. Things might be stagnant in some rural areas of the Country…

It is true that harmony in family life definitely gives you freedom to exercise your full potential in your career or any other endeavor you take in your life but again this is NOT the only reason for the society downfall as a whole.

Conclusion:
IMHO we have a hypocritical society where what we say and what we practice differs like night and day. IF we start practicing what we preach in every domain of our society then you will start seeing positive changes…just imagine how much burden you will ease on an individual in a society if he/she knows that he/she get justice in his/her route to success NOT only in his/her family life but also his/her professional life…which makes each member for the society strive for the best since they know they will get 100% return on their hard work and will be appreciated....implementation of ADAL is of critical significance and that what Islam emphasize also.

And lastly, Islam tells you to get the best of the knowledge if you have to travel to China so it is NOT Islam that holds you down when it comes to research and development of newer ideas but it is that “vital disconnect” between Islamic teachings and scientific exploration not embedded in our existing school curriculum...etc.

 

[Genghis khan1]

I am going to discuss a prominent but overlooked reason for the downward spiral faced by majority of muslims nations.

A boy is raised different than a girl, at least from grade 8, or puberty on wards if not before.

This is manifested primarily in the concept of "chadar and chaar diwari" that restricts girls when it comes to exposure and by large over riding any influence that internet may have positively.

The male child at the same time, is exposed to the world and develops personality traits which are based on the foreign influences. Thus causing a gulf between the female and male child.

From henceforth until graduation the male child keeps experiencing and developing newer experiencing, and the gulf between the male and female keeps increasing.

The rude awakening to reality comes when it time for marriage, and the family sets a match based on what they think the boy and the girl are like, and what they aspire. This maybe true in case of a female child, but is not the case in case of the male child who has had strong influences since he went past grade 10.

The girl's vision is mostly restricted to the "home" and considers the home her universe and battle space should her position be challenged or she should choose to challenge the mother or sisters in law.

This creates a funny and unfortunate relationship, which is possible to continue only if the boy giveup and surrenders what he has learned ( right or wrong) or face the hell that the women create due to their refusal to accept or change.

The 50% of the population's inability to change, eventually drags the whole society down, impeding growth or exploration of newer paradigms.

Share your thoughts please.

Nothing to do with Islam. Problem is importing mideastern tribal desert tradition in cloak of religion, plus using Islam as excuse for laziness. Islam doesn’t stop us from going above or beyond, in research, becoming a billionaire or any worldly progress . Often Lazy people have used saber suker teaching to justify their failures and leg pulling for those who trying going an extra mile. Unfortunately, some of those who do go an extra mile, and achieve success, started acting like gods.

 

[Chris Logan]

In the western culture both boys and specially girls are forced out of their homes and left to fend for themselves after the age of 18, majority of the times these girls uses their bodies as means to earn a living either through the **** industry or concepts like sugar daddy, the open sexual culture of the western society means that by the time both men and women reach the age of 30 they have gone through hundreds of sexual partners, once you have gone through so many partners it is extremely difficult to be in a healthy monogamous relationship long enough to raise a healthy child together, that is why you are seeing two extremes in the western world:

1. The rate of marriage is rapidly declining, even the rate of staying in a long term monogamous relationship is also rapidly declining, there are multiple of reason of this happening a few I have mentioned above (alimony is another one).
2. Those who do get married, there is an extremely high chance of divorce taking place more than 50% within the first 5 years.

The western world is not an ideal example of a successful family setup, it encourages fornication and children being born to divorce parents and out of wedlock, an extremely unhealthy environment to be raised in, which repeats the cycle.

Thats a myth, when you turn 18 in the west you dont automatically get thrown out. you simply reach the age of majority and are expected to become your own man and you should get a place of your own.
I'm an Example. My family were lower Chaste Hindus who stayed in East Pakistan in 1947, my father was born in "East Pakistan" and my family would have gladly supported a welcoming Pakistan, but in 1971 the Pak Army tried killing us so we fought back and won. This whole Gazwa-I-Hind is a fantasy and only make you look like monsters.