Sikh radicals 'appoint' convicted terrorist Jagtar Singh Hawara as Akal Takht chief

[Arsalan]

My Dear Spring Onion - Thank you.

Your expressed literature has proven beyond doubt you are a 16 year old Kid, who will Drop Atom "Bumb" one Day on Hindus & Sikhs...

Not one of your statement has any substance to share a Retort.

Return when you Grown up

The debate was all going fine unless you came up with the most stupid thing any good debate guy can do,, get involve in personal attack and try to insult other by this, thinking, this will make his argument look strong and better. We all know it do not.

AVOID ANY PERSONAL ATTACK, if you have enough material to continue debate go ahead, if not, no harm in admitting it, we are all here to learn!

 

[vsdoc]

Doc Modi is the ONLY person who has to become a Prime Minister of a country named India to be able to visit USA

@Horus, @waz @DESERT FIGHTER

You typing in red and calling in the heavy artillery is scaring this weak bharoti.

Modi ji's janam did not become saakaar by visiting the US.

Unlike leaders of some other nations, ours do not beg for meetings.

The US had no choice.

That was enjoyed greatly by 1.25 billion Indians.

I pray that you guys get the same pleasure once in your lifetimes.

Cheers, Doc

 

[Arsalan]

Thank you.

How can a person fall to such a level and say justice from hindus ?

We have lost many dear souls in riots but strength of My Great Nation and iTS values remain Intact.
Supreme Court in my Nation is beacon of Law and Justice.

Now tell me getting a statment that Justice from Hindus- Does this stand any ground to ask ?
Do nationals in your nation have reached such levels of radicalisation that you think a Non Sikh cannt give justice.
Such demeaning statements and thoughts am sorry to say have ruined your nation.

Thank for understanding,
what you mean by "fall to such level" ??
you think it that how can someone fall to this level of stupidity to ask them for justice or level of ignorance to ask for justice? i am a bit confused really. WHY IS SO UNBEARABLE TO ANYONE IF THE CRIMES OF HINDUS ARE POINTED OUT. We have made our mistakes as well, thinking that you haven't is living in fools' paradise!

The so many dear souls that you have lost (i feel sad and sorry for them all, may the rest in peace) were not the first ones dear. It is going on since 1947, it happened in 48, then we all kept our knives on each others throat as who know when will one get a chance to slice! It happened in 1971, in 80s, 90s it happens today. The culprits change, the victims change but it happens. So it should not come as a surprise if some one asks for justice! Also it is not fair being a human to mourn you loss and cherish that of the other, or even ignore that!!

As for asking it from "Hindu" is concerned,, our chief justice was a Hindu so your supposition about us being radical here may be wrong, may be it is that one particular Hindu or that particular group that make people question the sanity of asking justice from them!! it is not a guarantee that each time your enemy or the guy you are debating with is wrong, some time it is all about perspective, sometime it is better to sit back and try to understand what the other is actually saying rather then getting involved personally in rants and insults!

 

[Alphacharlie]

Thank for understanding,
what you mean by "fall to such level" ??
you think it that how can someone fall to this level of stupidity to ask them for justice or level of ignorance to ask for justice? i am a bit confused really. WHY IS SO UNBEARABLE TO ANYONE IF THE CRIMES OF HINDUS ARE POINTED OUT. We have made our mistakes as well, thinking that you haven't is living in fools' paradise!

The so many dear souls that you have lost (i feel sad and sorry for them all, may the rest in peace) were not the first ones dear. It is going on since 1947, it happened in 48, then we all kept our knives on each others throat as who know when will one get a chance to slice! It happened in 1971, in 80s, 90s it happens today. The culprits change, the victims change but it happens. So it should not come as a surprise if some one asks for justice! Also it is not fair being a human to mourn you loss and cherish that of the other, or even ignore that!!

As for asking it from "Hindu" is concerned,, our chief justice was a Hindu so your supposition about us being radical here may be wrong, may be it is that one particular Hindu or that particular group that make people question the sanity of asking justice from them!! it is not a guarantee that each time your enemy or the guy you are debating with is wrong, some time it is all about perspective, sometime it is better to sit back and try to understand what the other is actually saying rather then getting involved personally in rants and insults!

Thank you.

Law is above any religion and creed. Making statements of expecting justice from hindus is Trolling in simple English.

Do you know how many Non Sikhs were killed by Sikhs from 1984-91 Continous riots in Punjab who will give justice to those Hindu/Cristian/"Ramgaria-Sikh" Families.

The botton-line is simple - In a Nation where Law prevails and has Ethics in Society, we believe in Verdict not Religion of Person giving Verdict.

 

[Spring Onion]

You typing in red and calling in the heavy artillery is scaring this weak bharoti.

don't be a rondoo once again i was merely sharing the truth with them

Modi ji's janam did not become saakaar by visiting the US.

Unlike leaders of some other nations, ours do not beg for meetings.

Your emotionalism sans any logical reply shows you are angry, anyway, the US-Pak relations have been beyond these meetings. We have far deep understanding of what we both the countries are up-to so we Pakistanis are not much worried for such meetings and for us these are symbolic

[

The US had no choice.

That was enjoyed greatly by 1.25 billion Indians.

I pray that you guys get the same pleasure once in your lifetimes.

Cheers, Doc

well once again Modi has to become a PM to visit US that is a truth simple and plain as far as pleasure is concerned well we Pakistanis do not need any foreign visits by our leaders to experience it we Pakistanis take pleasure in everyday life happenings .

on the other hand you Indians need such pomp and show to feel good after all you guys want to show the world that India is all about Star plus dramas where every Indian is like from this and that ruling pariwar and so rich that even when women die they have tons of make up and tons of gold on them

 

[SecularNationalist]

Free indian punjab.

 

[Arsalan]

Thank you.

Law is above any religion and creed. Making statements of expecting justice from hindus is Trolling in simple English.

Do you know how many Non Sikhs were killed by Sikhs from 1984-91 Continous riots in Punjab who will give justice to those Hindu/Cristian/"Ramgaria-Sikh" Families.

The botton-line is simple - In a Nation where Law prevails and has Ethics in Society, we believe in Verdict not Religion of Person giving Verdict.

Law and Justice are two different things.

I would say you would have done justice if you mentioned the killings of Pakistanis in Bangladesh, the Sikhs killed in Punjab, the Muslims killed in Gujarat, Christians burned alive, in the same post as this. While you mention the the non-Sikhs killed in the riots, NO ONE is saying that they just not be given justice, they have equal right to it as any other person!!

Again, i need to point it out,, i guess is the person with a particular religion that @Spring Onion have reservations with,, it is a person with a particular religion!! There is a clear difference. We all know the history, we all know what we are all talking about, the only thing that can happen here is we chose to look other way sir.

Again, i do support justice for the PEOPLE killed in all those riots, not only those but the Gujarat massacre as well as the Christian killings, they are all humans!!
It do not effect me directly and neither do we have a say in it,, still if the verdict come from a authority with reasonable background and from Authority we can believe in, it will be better then it coming from an authority whose religion we believe in!! The problem my friend as i point out is not the religion of the particular man but the particular man of the religion!!

I guess i am making it more complex.

Anyway, my first point here was that it will be better if we avoid any personal attacks and insults, thanks for understanding that.

 

[Spring Onion]

Law and Justice are two different things.

I would say you would have done justice if you mentioned the killings of Pakistanis in Bangladesh, the Sikhs killed in Punjab, the Muslims killed in Gujarat, Christians burned alive, in the same post as this. While you mention the the non-Sikhs killed in the riots, NO ONE is saying that they just not be given justice, they have equal right to it as any other person!!

Again, i need to point it out,, i guess is the person with a particular religion that @Spring Onion have reservations with,, it is a person with a particular religion!! There is a clear difference. We all know the history, we all know what we are all talking about, the only thing that can happen here is we chose to look other way sir.

Again, i do support justice for the PEOPLE killed in all those riots, not only those but the Gujarat massacre as well as the Christian killings, they are all humans!!
It do not effect me directly and neither do we have a say in it,, still if the verdict come from a authority with reasonable background and from Authority we can believe in, it will be better then it coming from an authority whose religion we believe in!! The problem my friend as i point out is not the religion of the particular man but the particular man of the religion!!

I guess i am making it more complex.

Anyway, my first point here was that it will be better if we avoid any personal attacks and insults, thanks for understanding that.

Arsalan if demanding justice for Sikhs in 84 genocide is an injustice to Hindus then the issue is with the head of the this bharati not our's . He needs to clean his head from such misunderstanding

 

[vsdoc]

don't be a rondoo once again i was merely sharing the truth with them



Your emotionalism sans any logical reply shows you are angry, anyway, the US-Pak relations have been beyond these meetings. We have far deep understanding of what we both the countries are up-to so we Pakistanis are not much worried for such meetings and for us these are symbolic

[
well once again Modi has to become a PM to visit US that is a truth simple and plain as far as pleasure is concerned well we Pakistanis do not need any foreign visits by our leaders to experience it we Pakistanis take pleasure in everyday life happenings .

on the other hand you Indians need such pomp and show to feel good after all you guys want to show the world that India is all about Star plus dramas where every Indian is like from this and that ruling pariwar and so rich that even when women die they have tons of make up and tons of gold on them

The lady always gets the last word.

Especially if she's a Pakistani favorite.

 

[Samandri]

@DESERT FIGHTER What about adina beg, just Googled him and found out he was just an agent.

It's not about one guy but composition of mughal nobility there are many like him but you cant find a single punjabi musalman enjoyed such a high stature under the mughal,heck they even failed to make a decent Kingdom let alone a large empire.

You are wrong in saying that there was not even a single Punjabi musalman in the high ranks of Mughal nobility. Kamal Khan Ghakkar, from Jehlum, had rank of 5000/5000 under the Emperor Akbar. Various Ghakkar chiefs like Jalal Khan , Murad Quli etc were mansabdars who were given commands of military units and were appointed faujdars of important places.

Daulat Khan Bhatti was a mansabdar during Jehangir's reign. There could be more from Bhatti tribe.

 

[Alphacharlie]

Law and Justice are two different things.

I would say you would have done justice if you mentioned the killings of Pakistanis in Bangladesh, the Sikhs killed in Punjab, the Muslims killed in Gujarat, Christians burned alive, in the same post as this. While you mention the the non-Sikhs killed in the riots, NO ONE is saying that they just not be given justice, they have equal right to it as any other person!!

Again, i need to point it out,, i guess is the person with a particular religion that @Spring Onion have reservations with,, it is a person with a particular religion!! There is a clear difference. We all know the history, we all know what we are all talking about, the only thing that can happen here is we chose to look other way sir.

Again, i do support justice for the PEOPLE killed in all those riots, not only those but the Gujarat massacre as well as the Christian killings, they are all humans!!
It do not effect me directly and neither do we have a say in it,, still if the verdict come from a authority with reasonable background and from Authority we can believe in, it will be better then it coming from an authority whose religion we believe in!! The problem my friend as i point out is not the religion of the particular man but the particular man of the religion!!

I guess i am making it more complex.

Anyway, my first point here was that it will be better if we avoid any personal attacks and insults, thanks for understanding that.

A very sensible reply. Appreciate the Narrative

Now, let me add some more shade to the Picture - do you know what Muslims did - which lead to Riots in Gujrat.
the issue is not of Man or Religion or Authority which you can believe in.

The issue Boils down to Ethics of the Society. Let me quote a few examples :-

US has no constitution they run by 7 points agreed by their forefathers, They are a society giving Top priority to Merit.
Did US not have racial rights, did us not have KKK.
Did US not have apartheid.

Answer to all above points is Yes. But their Ethics and Values brought a change to their Nation.

We will also get our Justice, Our Moral Values and Ethics are still Holding Ground.

The issue here is Many of the readers from Pakistan who have read distorted History think - Sikhs, Hindus are evil. Only Muslims are pure, Read what muslims did which lead to Riots in Gujrat.

Today, when I walk to a Muslim Middle class house and ask a Child what do you want to become he says Pilot, Engineer, Doctor. What about a society where blood and bombs , injustice is seen every day what will happen to its Ethics ?

Take care, this Bharti Head understands what is injustice...

 

[Samandri]

Tell me about the composition of Mughal nobility their high grade mansabdars,not even 1% was from present day pakistan or pakistani punjab (highest populated state).Even aurangzeb appointed their arch enemy marthas as high grade mansabdar but not from pak who they considered low born (AJLAF) according to Barni thus they never maintained matrimonial relations with them.

On the other hand Persians,Turani,Hindu Rajputs formed the nobility of mughals,Indian rajputs were appointed governors of almost entire pakistan (lahore province) and kabul dispatched them to quell the revolt of pashtuns and central asian campaign of Shahjahan.

P.S - Afghnas (pashtuns) themselves look down upon punjabis both racially and culturally irrespective of religion.

Bengali musalman (as well as Bengali Hindu) was similarly under-represented in Mughal nobility, in fact more than Punjabi Musalman. The "Indian muslims" group mostly consisted of Syeds of Barha (U.P), Shaikhzadas, Habshis from Deccan, but also included indigenous musalman from Kashmir, Punjab and Sindh though in much smaller numbers.

Gills are jatts but a lot of low converts to Christianity etc also use the surname ..

Meanwhile the "mazhabi" Sikhs are basically Dalits .. Most of the Dalits in Punjab converted to Christianity became known as "Chuhras".. The ones who became Sikh (mazhabi)... The ones who became Muslim = mussali (they are still considered low ppl)...


That so called empire lasted less than 35 years -- with alliance from other powerful Muslim tribes like for example Kharrals and even Baloch like Mazaris in south Punjab (who used to burn down Sikh garrisons n skin the surviving ones).. The Mazaris chief was later invited by ranjit Singh as guest of honor and the disputes settled (given autonomy)..


Meanwhile Sikhs themselves for most part of their history were ruled n even persecuted by with Mughals,Pashtuns n allied Baluchs... So I believe going by your logic we have the right to rule most of northern India (if not entire India)..



Send your women to focus on us Baluch .. hindi baga.

Your BIL
AK Marri

Lets be factual. Mazari chief didnt attend Ranjeet Singh's darbar nor Mazaris contributed any thing to the military strength of Sikhs, you cant call it an alliance. I am posting excerpt from Gazetterr of DG Khan district,

"Dera Ghazi Khan had been annexed in 1819, and the administration made over to Nawab Sadik Khan of Bahawalpur. His province nominally included Rojhan ; but it was not until after the Harand Dajal province was conquered from the Khan of Kalat in 1827, that the Sikh supremacy became a reality. Diwan Sawan Mai then took over the administration, and as the Mazaris continued their predatory habits, he marched with an army of seven thousand men to Badli near Rojhan.

The Mazaris were driven into the hills, and Diwan Sawan Mai made them surrender all the stolen cattle in their possession. This was a great grief to them. But they soon broke out again, and sacked the town of Mithan Kot . The Diwan then marched down, this time occupying the country more effectively, forcing the Mazaris to take refuge in the territories of the Amir of Khairpur. Finally, terms were arranged through Rahim Khan, Laghari; Mir Bahram Khan attended the Diwan's Darbar at Multan in 1833-34.

Source: Gazetteers of Dera Ghazi Khan district, revised edition 1893-97, page-27

Point_4590

 

[Jat Boy]

People like Hussain

Sikhs where born fighting the mughals and moslem oppressors.

They are a smart educated race. Sikhs represent 25% of the india military officer corps yet only have 2 % pf the poplulation.

Some of the highest ranking officers in india are sikhs.

They dont trust pakistanis and you dreams of spliting india is fiction.

The sikhs are too smart for a pakistani tactic of divide and conqur

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

Bengali musalman (as well as Bengali Hindu) was similarly under-represented in Mughal nobility, in fact more than Punjabi Musalman. The "Indian muslims" group mostly consisted of Syeds of Barha (U.P), Shaikhzadas, Habshis from Deccan, but also included indigenous musalman from Kashmir, Punjab and Sindh though in much smaller numbers.

Lets be factual. Mazari chief didnt attend Ranjeet Singh's darbar nor Mazaris contributed any thing to the military strength of Sikhs, you cant call it an alliance. I am posting excerpt from Gazetterr of DG Khan district,

"Dera Ghazi Khan had been annexed in 1819, and the administration made over to Nawab Sadik Khan of Bahawalpur. His province nominally included Rojhan ; but it was not until after the Harand Dajal province was conquered from the Khan of Kalat in 1827, that the Sikh supremacy became a reality. Diwan Sawan Mai then took over the administration, and as the Mazaris continued their predatory habits, he marched with an army of seven thousand men to Badli near Rojhan.

The Mazaris were driven into the hills, and Diwan Sawan Mai made them surrender all the stolen cattle in their possession. This was a great grief to them. But they soon broke out again, and sacked the town of Mithan Kot . The Diwan then marched down, this time occupying the country more effectively, forcing the Mazaris to take refuge in the territories of the Amir of Khairpur. Finally, terms were arranged through Rahim Khan, Laghari; Mir Bahram Khan attended the Diwan's Darbar at Multan in 1833-34.

Source: Gazetteers of Dera Ghazi Khan district, revised edition 1893-97, page-27

Point_4590

I never claimed Mazaris allied with Sikhs.. Nor fought for Sikhs.

 

[hussain0216]

People like Hussain

Sikhs where born fighting the mughals and moslem oppressors.

They are a smart educated race. Sikhs represent 25% of the india military officer corps yet only have 2 % pf the poplulation.

Some of the highest ranking officers in india are sikhs.

They dont trust pakistanis and you dreams of spliting india is fiction.

The sikhs are too smart for a pakistani tactic of divide and conqur

If sikhs were so smart they would have fought for a independent sikh homeland during Partition like Pakistanis did

Instead you were left as a minority in hindu india

When the time came the hindus slaughtered you like pigs on the steps of your own temple only 30 years ago


You bowed your heads and cleaned the blood of your people off those very steps


When one of you plucked up the courage to kill Indira the hindus Butchered you across india

What use were your sikh officers




As india swings to the right division will be natural