Should Pakistan Recognize Israel?

[R2D2]

What economic sanctions? You'll stop exporting donkeys


The pagans are always ahead of you in every field so called non-pagans.

We don't import anything from there or export anything. We are competent enough to not need them for guidance in military matters unlike India.

 

[Haldorss]

Anyone think these 3 million+ missiles aren't for China and that they're for Iran, Pakistan or, even India?

https://twitter.com/x/status/1706380716999651771

 

[313ghazi]

I voted no, but I have some caveats.

So why no? Because we cannot support the illegal occupation of one territory whilst advocating against the illegal occupation of another territory. I also think the Israeli's couldn't care less what we think. We have no impact on them, they have no impact on us, by recognising Israel, we stand to gain nothing - we hold no leverage and our leadership class is completely compromised too. Look at the practically non existent benefit we got for being a lynchpin of the US invasion of Afghanistan for 20 years - total peanuts.

What are my caveats? - If through regocnition for Israel, better conditions, treatment, opportunities for the Palestinian people could be gained, then yes, it makes sense.

 

[indushek]

Doesn't matter honestly if Pakistan recognizes Israel - If Pakistan expects some strategic or military benefits out of this.

However, recognizing Israel can help Pakistan, if they want cooperation in general Tech and Agri related sectors. Israel is actually helping us revitalize our Agri sector, and can do same for Pakistan.

In fact I will go further and say, Pakistan has actually no choice but to accept Israel in current scenario. Am sure Munir saab and Kakar saab don't want to pull a Imran, on MBS and Saudis when it comes to decision time. The loan traches might stop, and the 25 Billion$ too.

Your acting FM has anyway said it at the UN, that Pakistan will decide based on its benefits about recognizing Israel. Guess the msg has been delivered, and the Israel UN rep said once Saudi's come through -- some six or Islamic countries are next in line, which could include Pakistan as well.

 

[R2D2]

I voted no, but I have some caveats.

So why no? Because we cannot support the illegal occupation of one territory whilst advocating against the illegal occupation of another territory. I also think the Israeli's couldn't care less what we think. We have no impact on them, they have no impact on us, by recognising Israel, we stand to gain nothing - we hold no leverage and our leadership class is completely compromised too. Look at the practically non existent benefit we got for being a lynchpin of the US invasion of Afghanistan for 20 years - total peanuts.

What are my caveats? - If through regocnition for Israel, better conditions, treatment, opportunities for the Palestinian people could be gained, then yes, it makes sense.

In practical terms, it will meaning legalizing Israel's mistreatment of Palestinians and that we will stop the voice raising for their rights. If viewed in strategic terms, China is the new entrant in the Middle East with the peace deal between Iran and Saudi Arabia. America is the receding super power and the latest India-Europe Corridor is a last ditch effort to revive American influence. Turkey is another entrant in the game and has proposed its own corridor. Russia and Iran failed American effort to overthrow the Assad government in Syria. In this context, Pakistan should oppose legitimizing of Israel as firstly it is the selling out the Palestinian people and the land and secondly, the American-Israeli Alliance is on the losing side in World politics.

 

[Haldorss]

What are my caveats? - If through regocnition for Israel, better conditions, treatment, opportunities for the Palestinian people could be gained, then yes, it makes sense.

Disagree on this part of your comment about yes if "conditions" and "opportunities" which can disappear with a the snap of two fingers. The borders of Israel look stupid and are designed to interfere with non-NATO countries by Anglosaxons so I'd make it about borders.

 

[xyx007]

There is no reason for Pakistan to accept the pressure. Only if what is in the Bold caption " INTEREST of Pakistan", and what is in the interest of the Palestinians is available, than it will not be a problem to accept Israel. It is also the first time we have used the MoF line in a UN speech as well.

 

[Ghessan]

Breaking News:
Well they found a reason to go ahead...

Israeli minister arrives in Saudi Arabia in first ever public visit https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023...es-in-saudi-arabia-in-first-ever-public-visit

 

[A Voice of Reason]

I have a pertinent question on this question. Perhaps I should post this as a seperate thread?

How does Pakistan propose exactly to feed all its people?

As I understand it...

Pakistan is projected to have 430 million people by 2050

Beyond the brink: Pakistan's population explosion | The Express Tribune

Us Pakistanis are a staggering 225 million people and counting … we’ll be more by the time you finish reading this.

tribune.com.pk

Pakistan already has a lot of hungry people.

Why is Pakistan ranked 99th on the Global Hunger Index?

Analysts say accessibility and affordability, coupled with political and economic crisis, are behind Pakistan’s ranking.

www.aljazeera.com

Pakistan's agricultural sector is on a, quote "declining spiral."

Addressing Pakistan’s agriculture productivity conundrum

Agriculture in Pakistan is currently in a state of disarray and there is an urgent need for effective measures to revitalize the sector. At the centre of this issue is the alarming decline in Total Fa

www.pakistantoday.com.pk

In fact reading the above link is an answer to the original question posed by this thread.

While tiny Israel could not possibly solve all the multitude of Pakistan's systematic and existential challanges, it could well make at least a noticeable dent in its agricultural challanges.

One thing is for sure. Doing things "business as usual" for Pakistan is unlikely to end well.

Israel, through MASHAV has been sending agricultural expertise and assistance to over 100 countries

Google Image Result for https://jewishstudies.washington.edu/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/MASHAV-global-activity-w-logo-e1520367658371-1024x609.jpg

Including some of the most tin-pot, undeveloped, badly run countries so far down the Human Development Index that you need binoculars to see them.

I'm sure that it can find SOMETHING to assist Pakistani farmers.

In fact just over Pakistan's eastern border there is a country you may possibly have heard of. There you can gaze at over 30 indo-Israeli Centers for Agricultural Excellence located in various Indian states where hundreds of thousands (probably millions by now) of Indian farmers are being lifted out of poverty.

Bhiwani gets the 30th Ind-Israel centre of excellence

Every year, the centers produce more than 40 million premium quality vegetable seedlings, over 500 thousand high quality fruit plants, and train more than 120 thousand Indian farmers......

indianexpress.com

Indo-Israeli Centre of Excellence for Animal Husbandary & Dairying, Hisar - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

Rs 4 crore Indo - Israel Centre of Excellence for Mango opens at Kesar fame Talala - DeshGujarat

Junagadh: Gir Somnath district, famous for its Kesar mango variety has got Rs 4 crore Indo – Israel Centre of Excellence for Mango (CEM). Talala

deshgujarat.com

Indo-Israeli Centre of Excellence for Vegetables Protected Cultivation - GKToday

On November 2, 2020, the Chief Minister of Assam, Sabananda Sonowal laid the foundation stone of Indo-Israeli Centre of Excellence for vegetables Protected Cultivation in

www.gktoday.in

From verticle farming to drought resistant seedlings, from innovative packaging to store crops (instead of just piling them by the road for vermin to feed on and rotting) to advanced desert agriculture and bee keeping, from marketing mentorship to advanced dairy production methods. Millions of Indian farmers are being shown how to at least double the value of their crops. Some up to 10 times the value. Using far less water, pesticides and fertilizers.

Not that a mere Pakistani embassy in Tel Aviv will immediately lead to similar Joint Centers of Execllence but all journeys start with small steps.

So I'll return to my question. How exactly is Pakistan planning to feed all its population? Business as usual?

 

[R2D2]

I have a pertinent question on this question. Perhaps I should post this as a seperate thread?

How does Pakistan propose exactly to feed all its people?

As I understand it...

Pakistan is projected to have 430 million people by 2050

Beyond the brink: Pakistan's population explosion | The Express Tribune

Us Pakistanis are a staggering 225 million people and counting … we’ll be more by the time you finish reading this.

tribune.com.pk

Pakistan already has a lot of hungry people.

Why is Pakistan ranked 99th on the Global Hunger Index?

Analysts say accessibility and affordability, coupled with political and economic crisis, are behind Pakistan’s ranking.

www.aljazeera.com

Pakistan's agricultural sector is on a, quote "declining spiral."

Addressing Pakistan’s agriculture productivity conundrum

Agriculture in Pakistan is currently in a state of disarray and there is an urgent need for effective measures to revitalize the sector. At the centre of this issue is the alarming decline in Total Fa

www.pakistantoday.com.pk

In fact reading the above link is an answer to the original question posed by this thread.

While tiny Israel could not possibly solve all the multitude of Pakistan's systematic and existential challanges, it could well make at least a noticeable dent in its agricultural challanges.

One thing is for sure. Doing things "business as usual" for Pakistan is unlikely to end well.

Israel, through MASHAV has been sending agricultural expertise and assistance to over 100 countries

Google Image Result for https://jewishstudies.washington.edu/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/MASHAV-global-activity-w-logo-e1520367658371-1024x609.jpg

Including some of the most tin-pot, undeveloped, badly run countries so far down the Human Development Index that you need binoculars to see them.

I'm sure that it can find SOMETHING to assist Pakistani farmers.

In fact just over Pakistan's eastern border there is a country you may possibly have heard of. There you can gaze at over 30 indo-Israeli Centers for Agricultural Excellence located in various Indian states where hundreds of thousands (probably millions by now) of Indian farmers are being lifted out of poverty.

Bhiwani gets the 30th Ind-Israel centre of excellence

Every year, the centers produce more than 40 million premium quality vegetable seedlings, over 500 thousand high quality fruit plants, and train more than 120 thousand Indian farmers......

indianexpress.com

Indo-Israeli Centre of Excellence for Animal Husbandary & Dairying, Hisar - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

Rs 4 crore Indo - Israel Centre of Excellence for Mango opens at Kesar fame Talala - DeshGujarat

Junagadh: Gir Somnath district, famous for its Kesar mango variety has got Rs 4 crore Indo – Israel Centre of Excellence for Mango (CEM). Talala

deshgujarat.com

Indo-Israeli Centre of Excellence for Vegetables Protected Cultivation - GKToday

On November 2, 2020, the Chief Minister of Assam, Sabananda Sonowal laid the foundation stone of Indo-Israeli Centre of Excellence for vegetables Protected Cultivation in

www.gktoday.in

From verticle farming to drought resistant seedlings, from innovative packaging to store crops (instead of just piling them by the road for vermin to feed on and rotting) to advanced desert agriculture and bee keeping, from marketing mentorship to advanced dairy production methods. Millions of Indian farmers are being shown how to at least double the value of their crops. Some up to 10 times the value. Using far less water, pesticides and fertilizers.

Not that a mere Pakistani embassy in Tel Aviv will immediately lead to similar Joint Centers of Execllence but all journeys start with small steps.

So I'll return to my question. How exactly is Pakistan planning to feed all its population? Business as usual?

We can get same level of agricultural cooperation from Australia which is also dealing with desertification and China also.

 

[A Voice of Reason]

We can get same level of agricultural cooperation from Australia which is also dealing with desertification and China also.

I have seen this suggested. For years. So far it isn't happening and not on the horizon AFAIK.

Show me where Australia is helping numerous countries around the world reform their agriculture.

China has a history of its initiatives collapsing the moment China loses interest. It's aid also has lots of strings attached as Pakistan is getting to know.

China's agricultural assistance efficiency to Africa: Two decades of Forum for China-Africa Cooperation creation

African countries continue to import the same agricultural products that they produce locally. Africa's dependence on food aid or importation is often…

www.sciencedirect.com

Israel on the other hand has a decades long, excellent track record and is generally happy to help just to foster friendly relations.

HOWEVER you are missing the point. Pakistan's issues are so massive and so entrenched that you need all the help you can get from absolutely anyone and everyone that is willing to do so.

 

[Haldorss]

We can get same level of agricultural cooperation from Australia which is also dealing with desertification and China also.

Won't work in a conflict with Anglosaxons. There should be independence.

 

[delta2]

Highly unlikely Pakistan recognize Israel. Pakistan is a right-wing country, even more than the Arabs. Whoever talks of recognizing Israel will be in a lot of pickles. It's not the leaders, it's the public.

Pakistan is not a right-wing country. Never has been. You know nothing of Pakistan.

For example India has voted in extremist and racist parties into power multiple times. Pakistanis are too civilized and caring to vote in a mass murderer.

 

[LeGenD]

Why are the Arabs intent on recognizing Israel, when its main backer, the US is now a receding Super Power. Israel itself was defeated the last time it invaded Lebanon.

US is not a receding super power. American military strength is intact and American economy continues to grow. US is in the process of cultivating new partnerships in fact.

Hezbollah put up a fight against Israel in 2006 - this is all.
Israel has significantly improved its military capability by now.
Hezbollah has also improved its military capability but Lebanon is broke and have internal problems.

 

[Silicon0000]

No.

By the way there is zero effect on Pakistan, Pakistanis and Israel for recognizing Israel. Only beneficiary will be elites aka establishment of Pakistan so its a double No.