Shahed-136 - Tracking usage & expanding understanding.

[DF41]

I have a suggestion for you, instead constantly talking shit about Iranian achievements why do not you add something positive. Lets talk about the facts and they are the following:

1- Israel is backed by world Jewry which is in fact has infiltrated all major Western governments ( Jeff Epstein, AIPAC)
2- Israel gets top American tech including $4 Billion a year in hand outs
3- Nothing of significance that you use today from your aircraft ( All American made) to all other important material military hardware is Israeli made without major help and funding from the Europeans or the Americans plus unlimited funding from Jewish banking cartel
4- Fact, Russians have procured Iranian drones against their war with Nato ( which in fact is war mongering jews waging a war against a Christian nation)
5- Iranian Shahed drones have done significant damage to Ukraine power grid in addition to command and control centers.
6- Your tiny country could not even win a war against Hezbollah without taking significant losses. As matter of fact, big bad Israeli military machine had to capitulate and cooperate with Lebanon, a weak country on gas explorations after it was threatened. Your military brass knows Hezbollah has access to the Shahed drones. They will wreak havoc on your infrastructure and there is not much you can do.

Now you can babble all you want but you can have your own opinion but not your own facts.

 

[Messerschmitt]

APKWS rockets cost only 20,000 dollars. More AA guns will be added as well.

VAMPIRE is basically a mobile point-defense system that is very range-limited. Ukraine is a large country with potential targets spread around. You would always need to have those systems placed at the target locations at the right time. That system isn’t battle tested yet either and isn‘t expected to be ready until May 2023.

You also keep forgetting the amount of resources the west can give Ukraine is far more than what Russia together with Iran can utilize. West is giving a lot of old arms for free to Ukraine.

Of course does the West have more resources available than Russia and Iran, but most of the solutions you suggested are also vastly more expensive than the drones. A single NASAMS platoon costs $23MM and a single AIM-120D missile costs over $1.2MM. Even the West doesn’t have unlimited resources on hand.

I'm from Israel, we intercept thousands of 5000 dollar rockets with 40,000 dollar missiles, and it's worth it because the possibile damage mitigated is much worse than the price of interception.

Sure, it’s better than the alternative of not intercepting, but absolutely speaking it’s still very uneconomical. Unlike Ukraine, Israel isn't being targeted by a large number of incoming kamikaze drones on a daily basis.

 

[Messerschmitt]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1587033534224601091

https://twitter.com/x/status/1587058314017476609

^ So 44 out of 50 Russian cruise missiles were shot down and the remaining 6 missiles managed to hit 18 facilities in 10 Ukrainian regions. Aight. Or did all drones hit their targets?

 

[thesaint]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1587033534224601091

https://twitter.com/x/status/1587058314017476609

^ So 44 out of 50 Russian cruise missiles were shot down and the remaining 6 missiles managed to hit 18 facilities in 10 Ukrainian regions. Aight. Or did all drones hit their targets?

My guess is they really meant 50-44 = 6 missiles shot down...

 

[lydian fall]

1. Because Jews are the smartest, and Israel utilizes that, that's why we're strong lol, you use it as an excuse because you're weak and jealous
2. Again, Israel utilizing its ties. 4 billion dollar is less than 1 percent of our annual GDP.
3. Lol, Jews are the smartest people on earth, we develop everything, cope harder.
4. War with NATO when NATO didn't even enter the fight lol
5. Nope, Shahed drones did negligible damage that's been repaired already.
6. Is that why Nasrallah hides in his bunker for 16 years? Is that why Lebanon is in an economic and political ruin? Meanwhile Israel just gotten way stronger and developed an answer for every threat Hezbollah poses? Is that why Hezbollah had 7 casualties for every 1 Israeli that died?

Anyways, cope harder, your nations are burning, everyone are rioting, you're all losers, Hezbollah and Iran will pay what they owe, you intellectually inferior being

Jews are actually the dumbest people on earth

The only thing is american/european neocaans worship them otherwise they had been destroyed long ago

 

[Beny Karachun]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1587033534224601091

https://twitter.com/x/status/1587058314017476609

^ So 44 out of 50 Russian cruise missiles were shot down and the remaining 6 missiles managed to hit 18 facilities in 10 Ukrainian regions. Aight. Or did all drones hit their targets?

He said 44 out of 50 cruise missiles shot down, 18 facilities hit by cruise missiles AND drones. Group unison.

 

[Beny Karachun]

VAMPIRE is basically a mobile point-defense system that is very range-limited. Ukraine is a large country with potential targets spread around. You would always need to have those systems placed at the target locations at the right time. That system isn’t battle tested yet either and isn‘t expected to be ready until May 2023.

Ukraine will be flooded with AA.
The more systems the better. MANPADS shot down multiple Russian planes and they're point defense systems as well.

First being protected would be the energy grid, which is much easier to defend than all of Ukraine.

Of course does the West have more resources available than Russia and Iran, but most of the solutions you suggested are also vastly more expensive than the drones. A single NASAMS platoon costs $23MM and a single AIM-120D missile costs over $1.2MM. Even the West doesn’t have unlimited resources on hand.

West having more resources means the west will work on better solutions. Old stock doesn't really cost the west anything, HAWK air defenses will be sent to Ukraine as well, Ukraine isn't going to use its weapons sparing

Sure, it’s better than the alternative of not intercepting, but absolutely speaking it’s still very uneconomical. Unlike Ukraine, Israel isn't being targeted by a large number of incoming kamikaze drones on a daily basis.

Israel shot down thousands of rockets, much harder to intercept than drones. Much less economical as well. Peaking at almost 200 interceptions at the same time.

Russia already lost this war, launching drones as we already established, isn't going to change the war.

Jews are actually the dumbest people on earth

The only thing is american/european neocaans worship them otherwise they had been destroyed long ago

Lol, cope and seethe

 

[TruthHurtz]

Jews are actually the dumbest people on earth

The only thing is american/european neocaans worship them otherwise they had been destroyed long ago

Jews aren't dumb, Beny is just dumb enough to exert a noticeable dysgenic effect on jews as a whole.

 

[Beny Karachun]

Jews aren't dumb, Beny is just dumb enough to exert a noticeable dysgenic effect on jews as a whole.

It would be funny if you were actually from Zimbabwe and would call me stupid lol

 

[shadihassan28]

Well I tried to give some advice several days earlier about making a thread, so people don’t derail other people’s threads about topics that don’t have anything to do with Israel/Iran conflict but I think you should know beny doesn’t actually care about debate he just is trying to get under your skin, so again for people who respect the person who started this thread either ignore him or just go back to topic.

 

[lydian fall]

Ukraine will be flooded with AA.
The more systems the better. MANPADS shot down multiple Russian planes and they're point defense systems as well.

First being protected would be the energy grid, which is much easier to defend than all of Ukraine.




West having more resources means the west will work on better solutions. Old stock doesn't really cost the west anything, HAWK air defenses will be sent to Ukraine as well, Ukraine isn't going to use its weapons sparing

Israel shot down thousands of rockets, much harder to intercept than drones. Much less economical as well. Peaking at almost 200 interceptions at the same time.

Russia already lost this war, launching drones as we already established, isn't going to change the war.


Lol, cope and seethe

That's your foremothers job in Europe lol

 

[Messerschmitt]

He said 44 out of 50 cruise missiles shot down, 18 facilities hit by cruise missiles AND drones. Group unison.

If true, then the Ukrainian statements would imply that not a single drone was shot down and all hit their targets. Saturation attacks seem to have an effect.

The more systems the better. MANPADS shot down multiple Russian planes and they're point defense systems as well.

MANPADs haven’t shown to be particularly effective against kamikaze drones though. There have been videos showing MANPADs missing Shahed drones even at shorter ranges, probably due to the drone’s lower heat signature and much smaller size compared to fighter jets.

First being protected would be the energy grid, which is much easier to defend than all of Ukraine.

Energy grids are just one of many potential targets to protect and even protecting energy infrastructure with (yet unproven) point-defense systems will be a challenge to say the least for a country the size of Ukraine. At some point the Ukrainians would have to prioritize certain locations over others which would leave vulnerabilities for Russia to exploit.

Israel shot down thousands of rockets, much harder to intercept than drones. Much less economical as well. Peaking at almost 200 interceptions at the same time.

Iron Dome is mainly a C-RAM system. Those crude rockets fly higher which makes them easier to pick up on radar due to radar horizon. Shahed drones fly much lower during their travel and have LO designs and materials. Palestinian rockets are also launched from a much closer distance than Shahed drones. Since they are unguided and not pre-programmable they can’t adjust course or flight altitude. So their flight path is easier to predict. Their heat signature is also much higher than that of Shahed drones. Iron Dome is a system that was designed specifically for Israel’s needs and for a specific task, with success. Ukraine doesn’t have such a system for their drone and cruise missile problem (yet).

 

[Elijah Manson]

If true, then the Ukrainian statements would imply that not a single drone was shot down and all hit their targets. Saturation attacks seem to have an effect.

Which totally contradicts the narrative of our dear friend.

 

[shadihassan28]

Which totally contradicts the narrative of our dear friend.

Nothing is 100%, again know one knows the exact numbers that have been hit, the only thing we know they are accurate and deadly and many have struck Ukraine, Western countries were never prepared for this, did anyone really think a once superpower would go to Iran for weapons, people thought this was going to be the usual artillery war with Russian using overwhelming firepower to level cities into submission. Does that mean they’re not going to adapt of course they will, but I’m sure if the stories are true Russia and Iran are already thinking ahead, fateh missiles that will definitely be impossible to defend against with Ukraines current capabilities and maybe the arash drone that can fly faster with a larger warhead.

 

[Beny Karachun]

If true, then the Ukrainian statements would imply that not a single drone was shot down and all hit their targets. Saturation attacks seem to have an effect.

How does that imply that? We don't have a figure on number of drones launched nor intercepted.

MANPADs haven’t shown to be particularly effective against kamikaze drones though. There have been videos showing MANPADs missing Shahed drones even at shorter ranges, probably due to the drone’s lower heat signature and much smaller size compared to fighter jets.

I'm saying that MANPADS, through volume, are able to provide results, even though they are pretty much point defenses. Same thing will happen withair defenses, they are going to be flooded with air defenses.

Energy grids are just one of many potential targets to protect and even protecting energy infrastructure with (yet unproven) point-defense systems will be a challenge to say the least for a country the size of Ukraine. At some point the Ukrainians would have to prioritize certain locations over others which would leave vulnerabilities for Russia to exploit.

Obviously, I literally said the Ukrainians are going to prioritize certain places.
I don't know how much intelligence Russia is able to gather on Ukrainian air defenses.

Iron Dome is mainly a C-RAM system. Those crude rockets fly higher which makes them easier to pick up on radar due to radar horizon. Shahed drones fly much lower during their travel and have LO designs and materials. Palestinian rockets are also launched from a much closer distance than Shahed drones. Since they are unguided and not pre-programmable they can’t adjust course or flight altitude. So their flight path is easier to predict. Their heat signature is also much higher than that of Shahed drones. Iron Dome is a system that was designed specifically for Israel’s needs and for a specific task, with success. Ukraine doesn’t have such a system for their drone and cruise missile problem (yet).

Lol, those crude rockets don't fly high into the sky more than other rockets, it depends on what angle they fire them, majority of rockets are actually fired at a low angle, reach low altitude and hit close to Gaza.

Radars don't care about altitude as long as they're not beyond the horizon, modern AESA radars can detect rockets regardless of ground clutter.

Shahed drones fly a few hundreds of meters, easily detectable. Iron Dome isn't heat seeking so their heat signature is irrelevant, and the RCS of a rocket is much lower than that of a Shahed, Iron Dome even shoots down mortar rounds
And as I said, many rockets are launched at low angles and only reach around the same height as Shaheds.

Iron Dome would easily **** up any and all cruise missiles and drones, at better success rate than with rockets, so long as its provided with an adequate supply of missiles.