Secular Pakistan or Islamic state Pakistan?

[XTREME]

Never hold God responsible for your failures ... Check the state of Pakistan before the Soviet War and afterwards it ... Which one is better ?

jaise amaal waise hukmaran.

 

[Secur]

jaise amaal waise hukmaran.

Then perhaps , our bad deeds started rising after the 80's J/K

 

[kobiraaz]

Islam is a way of life that dictates finance, administration, laws, life style etc. etc. all other religions are different than Islam. Anyway On Topic: Pakistan was created for muslims to preserve their rights. But unfortunately it never followed the basic principle on which it was established.... selfish politicians and opportunist military generals took the country from its root cause of establishment, thereby creating an identity crisis- for example rise of bengali nationalism. ultimately destabilizing the country!

 

[somebozo]

Islamic, following true Islam will be secular.

The true Islam is being ignored hence minorities are being neglected.

the mullah mind boggling continues..if it is secular then it cannot be islamic..

Islam is a way of life that dictates finance, administration, laws, life style etc. etc. all other religions are different than Islam. Anyway On Topic: Pakistan was created for muslims to preserve their rights. But unfortunately it never followed the basic principle on which it was established.... selfish politicians and opportunist military generals took the country from its root cause of establishment, thereby creating an identity crisis- for example rise of bengali nationalism. ultimately destabilizing the country!

Yar give up on this nonsense, they did not have anything to match 21st century back in 7th century to define a universal way of life. This is why societies bent on living by islam tend to take a reverse gear on progress.

 

[haviZsultan]

My article on secularism and its possible benefits for Pakistan:

Why do we fear secularism?

Many Pakistanis have a built in aversion towards the word secularism while taking an excessive pride in the Islamic Republic attached to Pakistan’s name. Despite the fact that many Pakistanis fail to follow the tenets of Islam and the word Islamic Republic makes a mockery of the meaning it remains a source of excessive pride. Scholars claim that today the country is very far from Islam because very few people in Pakistan really follow the tenets of Islam however very few of them can answer the question whether it's worthwhile to have an “Islamic Republic” only in name. However the real question is do we really have anything to fear from Secularism in the first place?


According to its dictionary meaning Secularism refers to the equal treatment of each and every religious group within the Nation and to the idea that religion should have a smaller role in politics and decision making because when it has too large a role people spend their time over their own separate interpretations of religion rather than Nation building and the tasks at hand.


Many Muslims in Pakistan fear secularism because they have a perverse idea of the concept fearing Islam will be diminished with Secularism. This is completely untrue. Pakistan’s Islamic identity will not be lost with a Secular system.


Will Secularism decrease Islam’s value in Pakistan?


Many Pakistanis continually fear that secularism will decrease Islam's value or worse will eliminate Islam from Pakistan.


The fact is no one is pushing Islam away and with 95% of the population of Pakistan being proud and extremely pious Muslims for the most part it is impossible to even try. Islam will still be practiced by the majority of people as it is being practiced today without any hindrance whatsoever. The only difference perhaps will be that religion will be a personal matter. A person who does not follow Islam devotedly or a follower of a different religion or a sect of Islam will not be persecuted for having his own separate beliefs.


If seen in such a light Secularism is nothing to be feared. We can be proud Muslims and defend Islam as much or even more with a secular constitution as we can by labelling a country ruled by very corrupt people with barely any link to Islam an “Islamic Republic”. An Islamic Republic where the rulers themselves have no link to Islam and others often use religion as a tool to fulfill their personal interests.

The fact is that a country that calls itself an Islamic Republic should have a constitution, laws (that are implemented instead of being cleared by people who can pay bribes), rules and regulations based on the tenets of Islam. A country lacking the Islamic economic and judicial system based on the teachings of the Prophet can't be an Islamic Republic. It's not that Pakistanis haven't tried. If proof is needed one needs to look at Zia's Islamicization. Pakistanis have tried to impose Islam in letter and spirit for 60 years and failed. It's more than time we revised our direction.


The tenets of Islam support Secularism & harmony

“To you be your Faith, and to me mine.”
Ayat 109:6


During the rule of Ali Ibn Abi Talib the fourth Caliph of Islam a Jew stole a shield that belonged to the Caliph and claimed that it was his. He was brought to the court of Ali to settle the dispute. However due to lack of proof and according to Islamic law the Jew was allowed to keep the shield as Hazrat Ali could not prove he owned the shield. This was a verdict going against a Muslim Caliph in his own court. However Hazrat Ali accepted the decision calmly. On the other hand the Jew was dumbfounded as he had indeed stolen the shield. He was quick to embrace Islam and declared that he had lied in front of the entire court.


This was one example of how Islam spread to become one of the largest religions in the World and won hearts and minds. It was due to the insight and tolerance our ancestors had that we got to where we are, that Cordova and Baghdad became centres of learning and Islam spread from the corners of Spain to the boundaries of the far east.


Unfortunately many people in Pakistan do not understand that human rights and the equal treatment of all individuals in the country is more important in Islam rather than a notion of Islamic pride and superiority where labelling a country an “Islamic Republic” is deemed necessary. This pride comes from a past that our ancestors built with policies that we fail to understand today.


The Quaid E Azams Principles


“In any case Pakistan is not going to be a theocratic State — to be ruled by priests with a divine mission. We have many non- Muslims — Hindus, Christians, and Parsis — but they are all Pakistanis. They will enjoy the same rights and privileges as any other citizens and will play their rightful part in the affairs of Pakistan.”

Quaid E Azam, February 1948


The above quote is the greatest proof that Quaid E Azam did not want a state that was built solely on the basis of religion. Unfortunately since his death the constitution has been changed to suit every new leader that came and the title “Islamic Republic,” untrue it may be has been added along with many laws that are completely out of line with Quaid E Azam's original ideas for Pakistan. If we look closely at many of his speeches we will notice Quaid E Azam was a staunch supporter of secularism with an added focus on Islamic thought and ideology. Therefore until he was alive the Islamic Republic was never attached to the countries name. That happened when Ayub Khan came into power.


Other speeches by Quaid E Azam that clearly supported the message of peace, harmony and equality between all groups whether they are ethnic or religious are stated below.


‘We are starting with the fundamental principle that we are all citizens and equal citizens of one state. No matter what is his colour, caste or creed is first, second and last a citizen of this state with equal rights, privileges and obligations….”

“In due course of time Hindus will cease to be Hindus and Muslims will cease to be Muslims – not in a religious sense for that is the personal faith of an individual- but in a political sense as citizens of one state.”

“[If you] work together in a spirit that everyone of you no matter what is his colour, caste or creed, is first, second and last a citizen of this state with equal rights, privileges and obligations, there will be no end to the progress you will make.”
11 August 1947


“The tenets of Islam enjoin on every Musalman to give protection to his neighbours and to the Minorities regardless of caste and creed. We must make it a matter of our honor and prestige to create sense of security amongst them.”
30th October 1947


Clearly Quaid E Azam understood that a Nation could not be built until differences were eliminated and people saw themselves as equal members of a single society regardless of faith or ethnicity.


Perhaps if that spirit was alive today Pakistan would not be afflicted with religious issues and infighting between Shia-Sunni, Barelvi-Deobandi, Wahabi-Mainstream Muslim, and the principles of personal freedom would have given way to building a Nation that was the most glorious one in history. Unfortunately this destiny still awaits the Pakistani race which dreams for justice and equality. Many conservatives continuously deny Quaid E Azam wanted a secular country believing that such a concept is against Islam when it is not. Perhaps they fear for their own interests but Quaid E Azam did indeed want a Nation that was Secular or Socialist and gave equal opportunity to all inhabitants.


People try to deny this but the fact is, being Muslims this is not something for us to be ashamed of but something glorious. That a leader who did so much for Muslims, gave them a new homeland and independence, still understood the morals of our ancestors because of whom Islam spread is truly remarkable.


Issues caused by the misinterpretation of Islamic Law & resources used to contain them


The fact that laws created to safeguard Islam are being used for the benefit and self interest of bad people does not do anything great for the image of Islam. A clear example is the blasphemy law, a law that makes an insult to Islam, the Prophet or the Quran illegal and punishable by death. This law has been used against minorities for a long time. However Muslims have fallen victims to this law as well.


An example of how this law is misused was the case of Mohammad Imran who was arrested in Faisalabad for blasphemy on the 28th of October 2007. He was falsely blamed because of a personal argument. After being arrested he was first tortured by the police, then the inmates and later he was placed in solitary confinement without anyone looking after his injuries. He was only released in April 2009 after being declared innocent.


Another example was the framing of Akhtar Hammed Khan, an 81 year old writer and sociologist by business interests and authorities unwilling to let his development work take place in Orangi, Karachi. He had launched a development project on the behalf of the people of Orangi. His project offering real estate loans on good terms and work to improve the condition of women through education, and access to employment and family planning was not well liked by these authorities. Thus they decided to book him on false charges with the police under the blasphemy laws. He was later released due to inadequate evidence but the case proves how the law is being used to settle personal scores and disputes.


Minorities have many such stories to share as 60% of all victims who are framed under this law are Non Muslims. The law has become a tool for fanatics, murderers and people seeking to settle personal scores yet the law still hasn’t been repealed due to the fact that militants have some influence on governance. Land disputes or personal quarrels are by far the main reason for people to be booked under this law.


Another such law is the Hudood Ordinance where in a case of Rape four witnesses are required to confirm that a rape has taken place. This is practically impossible. However the woman who complains that a rape has taken place is often booked for being with another man while the culprits of the rape run free.


Therefore the Hudood Law became a tool in the hands of rapists and today any woman can be raped. But when she goes to the police to get justice the Hudood Law can be used to frame her, because by claiming that she has been raped she also admits that she has been with another man and committed Zinah. Some figures claim that in the year 1979 there were only 70 women in Pakistani jails. A decade later, in 1988, this figure had risen to 6000 and over 80% of the women in prison were there because of these laws. It is said many more women do not even report rapes in fear of being persecuted due to this law.


Is Pakistan really Islamic?
Better to have a Secular constitution than Islam only in name


There is no doubt that our leaders found us a land that was a safe haven for Muslims and gave us freedom to make our own decisions without the fear of suffering biased treatment for the faith we followed. However the question today is how much Islam is being followed in the country?

For instance the Quran states:

“Keep yourselves away from bribes because it is kufr and one who receives them will never smell the scent of paradise”.

The fact is in Pakistan taking and giving bribes is so common that even a noble person can hardly live without paying one. Some honourable folk still struggle on but their lives are much more difficult. If a person has money it is a possibility he has given or taken a bribe at least once. Unfortunately the entire bureaucracy is at the forefront of this rot. Justice is sold and witnesses can be bought.


On the other hand while drinking is not allowed and a license is required in order to drink in Pakistan, people who want to drink do so with impunity and with no fear of being punished. The law is not even being implemented while if a drunkard happens to get caught a simple bribe wins back the persons freedom. On the other hand while adultery is considered a punishable law under the constitution it is practiced by many people in the country without any fear of punishment. The same goes for many other laws. It is virtually impossible to implement these laws and it costs resources to do so.


The fact is many laws related to Islam exist in Pakistan but they are there only in name. They are either being misused by people for their own interests or they are not implemented and people who commit heinous crimes are allowed to go free because of them, without any fear of punishment while the innocent are framed. Particularly, the law simply does not apply to government officials who can flout any rule because of their influence and power.


The real question for Pakistan today is whether it is sensible to have a false, broken and corrupt “Islamic Republic” in name or it is better to have a secular constitution that guarantees freedom to everyone and ensures that there are no vaguely addressed laws that make a mockery of our Religion and are misused for the benefit of a few criminals.

Do read the whole if you have time... should make it clear what the Quaid actually wanted. Focusing too much on ethnicity/religion a negative point for Nationalism. Religion and Nationalism are not one but we seek to make them one... even ethnicity. Nationalism is pure, raw and uncorrupted by the influences of religion and ethnicity.

 

[KRAIT]

@haviZsultan Log Quaid E Azam ko bhula baithe hain, unke alfaazon ko kaun yaad rakhega ?

I quoted this speech and thanks for posting his speech.

Problem is we look for new leader but fail to learn what our previous leader tried to teach us.

 

[haviZsultan]

@haviZsultan Log Quaid E Azam ko bhula baithe hain, unke alfaazon ko kaun yaad rakhega ?

I quoted this speech and thanks for posting his speech.

Problem is we look for new leader but fail to learn what our previous leader tried to teach us.

That man was called the ambassador of Hindu-Muslim unity for a reason. It is unfortunate what both nations have done to this great man. In India he is remembered as a Islamic fanatic who had ill-intent or malice towards hindus and India as a whole. In Pakistan he is known as a Islamist... no matter what I do @Zarvan and co are going to deny the tolerant person he was.

20+ recorded addresses telling minorities that they would be protected. That man is a real gem. We are doing a crime by equating secularism to anti-Islam... millions of muslims live in secular countries... has Islam disappeared? Its an irrational fear.

Either way, i'm a democrat... its up to the Pakistani people to decide what is good for them... I cannot impose the ideal.

 

[Progressive Conservative]

Its quite naive to believe that making Islam a secular state will somehow make minorities better treated. The rights of minorities are already protected in our current constitution. What is required is a better implementation of the relevant articles in the existing constitution. Changing the constitution so that they come from a more secular angle will change nothing.

 

[Burger Boy]

It depends on how you define "Islamic" and "Secular"

I think Pakistan should be like Tunisia or UK which although they have a state religion but the law is secular rather than Turkey or France which are staunchly secular and possibly anti-religion.


We always hear of how the Islamic Ummah and the Islamic system is the panacea to all the world's problems but is not going to work and hasn't because there will be a dispute as to who is acting in the interest of Islam.

From this we can see that having law and government based on religion is bound to cause sectarianism and often its the minorities who lose the most from this as hatred may be directed against them to prove "who is most islamic".

 

[SHAMK9]

Don't care as long as:
1: Minorities are treated equally, freedom of religion, can be part of government.
2: Religious laws are practiced by one's own will but aren't forced upon others.
3: Religious places are respected by everyone.

 

[jbond197]

Don't care as long as:
1: Minorities are treated equally, freedom of religion, can be part of government.
2: Religious laws are practiced by one's own will but aren't forced upon others.
3: Religious places are respected by everyone.

How many of these things do you see happening in Pakistan today?

 

[AHAM BRIHMASMI]

Then what went wrong? Because Pakistan isn't considered a state, were minorities are living in harmony with the majority.
Shia-Sunni fights, Hindu girls are thrown into forced marriages, Ahmadis are declared non-muslim... Personally i think that we should treat them right, because we once were a minority, we were scared to be dominated by the hindu majority, but now we are in a different position, and we dont treat the minorities in the same way, we would treat ourself.

Thank God, still there are some sane pakistani muslims exist.

 

[SHAMK9]

How many of these things do you see happening in Pakistan today?

None to be very honest and just changing Pakistan's name from islamic republic of Pakistan to republic of Pakistan won't change a thing, its the thinking that needs to be changed.

 

[AHAM BRIHMASMI]

you are not the first Indian with this original idea and you wont be the last.

In spite of accusing him and abusing ( by questioning his nationality ) why dont you answer his reasoning with your crap principle of umma brotherhud ? that will hurt him more I guess..

 

[SHAMK9]

Islam is a way of life that dictates finance, administration, laws, life style etc. etc. all other religions are different than Islam. Anyway On Topic: Pakistan was created for muslims to preserve their rights. But unfortunately it never followed the basic principle on which it was established.... selfish politicians and opportunist military generals took the country from its root cause of establishment, thereby creating an identity crisis- for example rise of bengali nationalism. ultimately destabilizing the country!

Well I understand where you are coming from with that but me being future of Pakistan, think that we need to change big time, i don't like what I see in Pakistan today (burning churches, hindu girls/christians girls being kidnapped, ahmedis etc). We are constantly being pushed back (both economically and as a whole society) , not only hurting our brothers and sister but the ultimate dream of Quaid. Pakistan has to change and it will.