Samjhauta Express catches fire, 42 killed

[SMC]

Ahsan

Pakistan hasnt provided proof for the French case, They said India first , then they made it balouchi's, since they killed the chinese too.India is involved in Pakistan and I will not deny that, and they better be. though I wish otherwise, Our countries are hostile, it is the duty of RAW, since ISI quite rampant in India

Indian Government has not Blamed Pakistan Government for the Train Issue. Indian Sleuths have Pointed fingers at Pakistani based(note) elements, cuz of the extensive use of IED

Right, so you want RAW to do terrorism in Pakistan. So don't complain about ISI doing anything either. Its funny isn't it. Many indians say the same thing as you. So don't complain if ISI does anything in india then, like you and many other indians if it does.

As for the proof, may I ask if India has provided proof for ANY of the incidents where it has blamed Pakistan? Yet you guys still blame Pakistan for your incompetence.

What purpose does it serve by killing the French engineer?
You kill some of these guys,DCN will replace them with another bunch.

It would have never effected the production schedule,probably delay for a couple of months.
Why would RAW kill people from a friendly country and such an important arms supplier like France?

Their death was not worth the relation with France.

Obviously because india didn't want Pakistan to get those french submarines those engineers were helping building. Doesn't take rocket science to figure that out.

 

[Adux]

When did I complain about the ISI, I am not naive person Ahsan, All these are part of geo-politics and real life aint easy. Proof of Pakistan involment has been given upteen times, including sat recon by India as well as US. Address and bAnk accounts of several org were given. Gen.Mushraff agreed to stop supporting jehadi's outfits, isnt the proof in itself; Tell me this is , What is RAW equivalent of the ISI's thousand cuts policy; You can spew it, cant dish it when you get it back, huh son. You get back what you spew,India doesnt help terrorist in Pakistan, we are helping the "freedom Fighters".

Killing French sub specialist would have negative impact for india and wouldnt affect Pakistan sub-capabilities, There are too many crack-heads in your country who are so hate-filled that the moment they see a white person or a person from different religion they would kill him. I suggest you clean up your own mess. FYI, Government of Pakistan has attirbuted the killings of chinese and french to the balochi's and other terror groups from NWFP

 

[sword9]

Guys,
Please relax. Instead of trying to prove each others' theory right or wrong, it will be more pragmatic to analyse what does one aim and gain by attacking a train with Pak passengers on Indian soil?

The Whys & Whats when answered and analysed may help to clear the fog.

Let me start.

What does any Indian fanatic group or govt gain by attacking Samjhauta Express?
Strategic loss: (1) Embaressment for the nation.
(2) Shows yet again another intell failure.

Tactical gain: Some Pak civilian casulties.

Note: No immediate or pressing emotional revenge motive exists at the moment within Indian people or right wing groups.

What does any Pakistani govt gain by attacking Samjhauta Express? (NB: I say Pak govt because ALL anti-Indian jihadi gps are controlled by the ISI)[/i]
Strategic gain1) Plays the victim card.
(2) Puts India on the backfoot and draws way attention from discussing important issues during the foreign ministers confrence. The India-Pakistan Joint Commission was being revived for exchange of joint working groups for bilateral co-operation.
(3) Showing to the world that jihadis function independently and are not within its control, as even Pak civilians are being killed.
(4) Trying to sow hatred amongst the citizens of Pakistan against India.
(5) Gain world sympathy for loss of its citizens in a "terror" attack.

Tactical gain/loss: (1) Loss of some poor citizens (over 50% of them being Sindhi hindus)*.
(2) Plausable deniablity.

The gains from this incident seem more for Pakistan and only embaressment for India.

*

http://www.thenews.com.pk/top_story_detail.asp?Id=6014
His statement, however, differed with that Khusro Bakhtiar made a few minutes later. The minister of state said of the deceased persons, 49 bodies have been identified. Twenty-seven are Hindus and twenty-two Muslims. “We have allowed India to open a temporary visa office near Wagah,” he said, adding that the Punjab government has provided buses to take the people to Atari from where they would travel as per arrangements made by India.

 

[SMC]

When did I complain about the ISI, I am not naive person Ahsan, All these are part of geo-politics and real life aint easy. Proof of Pakistan involment has been given upteen times, including sat recon by India as well as US. Address and bAnk accounts of several org were given. Gen.Mushraff agreed to stop supporting jehadi's outfits, isnt the proof in itself; Tell me this is , What is RAW equivalent of the ISI's thousand cuts policy; You can spew it, cant dish it when you get it back, huh son. You get back what you spew,India doesnt help terrorist in Pakistan, we are helping the "freedom Fighters".

Killing French sub specialist would have negative impact for india and wouldnt affect Pakistan sub-capabilities, There are too many crack-heads in your country who are so hate-filled that the moment they see a white person or a person from different religion they would kill him. I suggest you clean up your own mess. FYI, Government of Pakistan has attirbuted the killings of chinese and french to the balochi's and other terror groups from NWFP

Oh dear. Where is there proof of Pakistani involvement in any of the incidents in india. Your government said they will give the proof of involvement in mumbai blast. Thats yet to happen. Ok so mushraff said to stop some orgs, how does that prove anything. What that means is that we don't support them just in case they're involved but that doesn't mean they are. You guys so easily blame Pakistan for your own problems. Like I said it somewhere else, you guys would probably blame Pakistan even if you saw a blast coming in a crystal ball. And how exactly are you helping "freedom fighters". As far as I am concerned those Assam and Orissa organizations are the ones who are the real freedom fighters as are the ones in IOK. In Pakistan, i dont' see who are the so called freedom fighters helping gain freedom. In other words, thats terrorism.

As for french engineer, yes india would have a lot to gain. They could easily pay anyone to plant a bomb and do the job. It would mean that france may stop sending help to Pakistan. Those "crack heads" you're talking about are not found in most cities. You've the wrong impression of Pakistan. But again, what can we expect from an indian, huh? And those terror groups you're talking about.. you may also wanna wonder who funds them and provides them with weapons, etc.

 

[SMC]

Guys,
Please relax. Instead of trying to prove each others' theory right or wrong, it will be more pragmatic to analyse what does one aim and gain by attacking a train with Pak passengers on Indian soil?

The Whys & Whats when answered and analysed may help to clear the fog.

Let me start.

What does any Indian fanatic group or govt gain by attacking Samjhauta Express?
Strategic loss: (1) Embaressment for the nation.
(2) Shows yet again another intell failure.

Tactical gain: Some Pak civilian casulties.

Note: No immediate or pressing emotional revenge motive exists at the moment within Indian people or right wing groups.

What does any Pakistani govt gain by attacking Samjhauta Express? (NB: I say Pak govt because ALL anti-Indian jihadi gps are controlled by the ISI)[/i]
Strategic gain1) Plays the victim card.
(2) Puts India on the backfoot and draws way attention from discussing important issues during the foreign ministers confrence. The India-Pakistan Joint Commission was being revived for exchange of joint working groups for bilateral co-operation.
(3) Showing to the world that jihadis function independently and are not within its control, as even Pak civilians are being killed.
(4) Trying to sow hatred amongst the citizens of Pakistan against India.
(5) Gain world sympathy for loss of its citizens in a "terror" attack.

Tactical gain/loss: (1) Loss of some poor citizens (over 50% of them being Sindhi hindus)*.
(2) Plausable deniablity.

The gains from this incident seem more for Pakistan and only embaressment for India.

*

Looks like a doctored list created by an indian. What can I expect.

What does an indian group gain:

1) Killing muslims. Thats what they gained in Gujarat riots.
2) Derailing the peace process as many of these guys don't want any peace.
3) Getting their monthly/weekly/yearly quota of killing muslims filled.
4) Killing Pakistanis
5) Showing incompetence of indian government
6) Indian embarrasment
7) Getting Pakistan more hated because they know that whoever does this, Pakistan is going to get blamed in anyway.


What does a Pakistani group gain:

1) Bad image for Pakistan, considering they know for a fact that whoever does anything like this in india, Pakistan is to get blamed anyway
2) Getting indians killed
3) Derailing the peace process

Not much to gain. A lot to lose though.

Your number 3, 4, 5 arguments are irrelevent.
3) They could have killed Pakistanis inside Pakistan which would've been easier for them probably.
4) Not sure how that would sow hatred in Pakistan.
5) They aren't going to gain any sympathy, again knowing that Pakistan will be blamed so infact its the opposite of what you said would be happening, which is a loss than a gain.

 

[Adux]

Ahsan,

Your righteous and our country is evil

kids..........................

 

[SMC]

Now finally, when there is no argument is left, this is what you come down to. How am I not surprised. "KIDS".. LMFAO

 

[Adux]

Now finally, when there is no argument is left, this is what you come down to. How am I not surprised. "KIDS".. LMFAO

you make arguements to people who understands both sides of the coin, others it is a futile waste of time.

If you bring about no-go points like

they could have killed pakistani's inside pakistan, They are doing that anyways. And if you want derail the peace process, u better bomb the train in india.

Killing Muslims, hmm do you want me to take how many hindu's are killed by the muslims very year in india, but then that doesnt go with your propoganda, muslims are victim attitude does it

 

[Bull]

Actually india has played role in terrorism inside Pakistan in the past.. like killing of those french engineers. Thats just one example. They've also been involved in terrorism in the remote western parts of the country..

Where is the proof? The culpirts in that bombings havebeen caught and punished yet pakistan has not come up with anything against us.

 

[SMC]

they could have killed pakistani's inside pakistan, They are doing that anyways. And if you want derail the peace process, u better bomb the train in india.

Dude, that argument was pretty stupid. Why would someone go to india in order to kill Pakistani civilians? In that case, indians may also get killed in the process.

And yes if you want to derail the peace process, do something like that in india because they're going to blame Pakistan in any case. Whereas in Pakistan, we investigate the case thoroughly.

 

[Bull]

Yes, they've blamed Pakistan for this already. Look onto page 2 or 3 of this topic.

Nobody has blamed Pakistan. They have blamed the terrorists organisation based in Pakistan occupied kashmir.Now are they representing the Pak est? Thats what it looks like as you are holding Pakistan responsible for what the terrosists have suppose to be done.

And dont forget there were one more article where Hindu extremists have been blamed and one more where the PM has blamed nobody.

Without blaming anyone for the blasts, Prime Minister Singh said "the culprits will be punished". http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/6376435.stm

Hindu extremist link suspected
http://www.nation.com.pk/daily/feb-2007/20/index1.php

Highly-placed sources in Union Home Ministry were also quoted by PTI as saying that they had "vital clues" which included a telephone conversation between a caller from Delhi to Azad Kashmir.The sources declined to give out the identity of the militant groups behind the blasts but hinted at sleeper cells of Lashker-e-Toiba and Jaish-e-Mohammed.
(With inputs from PTI)

And see the thing is, RAW can easily bribe people to go and put a bomb at a place. Simple as that.

And you mean to say ISI cant.

 

[Bull]

7) Getting Pakistan more hated because they know that whoever does this, Pakistan is going to get blamed in anyway.

How will Pakistan be blamed for bombing pakistanis in Indian soil.

Bad image for Pakistan, considering they know for a fact that whoever does anything like this in india, Pakistan is to get blamed anyway.

No, Pakistan as usual gets to play the victim card.

 

[Bull]

Guys,
Please relax. Instead of trying to prove each others' theory right or wrong, it will be more pragmatic to analyse what does one aim and gain by attacking a train with Pak passengers on Indian soil?

The Whys & Whats when answered and analysed may help to clear the fog.

Let me start.

What does any Indian fanatic group or govt gain by attacking Samjhauta Express?
Strategic loss: (1) Embaressment for the nation.
(2) Shows yet again another intell failure.

Tactical gain: Some Pak civilian casulties.

Note: No immediate or pressing emotional revenge motive exists at the moment within Indian people or right wing groups.

What does any Pakistani govt gain by attacking Samjhauta Express? (NB: I say Pak govt because ALL anti-Indian jihadi gps are controlled by the ISI)[/i]
Strategic gain1) Plays the victim card.
(2) Puts India on the backfoot and draws way attention from discussing important issues during the foreign ministers confrence. The India-Pakistan Joint Commission was being revived for exchange of joint working groups for bilateral co-operation.
(3) Showing to the world that jihadis function independently and are not within its control, as even Pak civilians are being killed.
(4) Trying to sow hatred amongst the citizens of Pakistan against India.
(5) Gain world sympathy for loss of its citizens in a "terror" attack.

Tactical gain/loss: (1) Loss of some poor citizens (over 50% of them being Sindhi hindus)*.
(2) Plausable deniablity.

The gains from this incident seem more for Pakistan and only embaressment for India.

*

Agree 100%

 

[Adux]

Because when Pakistani civilians are killed in India\, it becomes India's responsbility, it shows India as intolerent country, they could blame the hindu extremeist, if India blames pakistan or truely finds out pakistan is behind the attack, India cant blame them, cuz pakistani population will think exactly like you why would a Pakistani kill other pakistani. Its a game of chess, where the two players are dirty, The day you get that, you see through the propoganda garbage and understand it better.

 

[sword9]

Looks like a doctored list created by an indian. What can I expect.

O.K charlie give your un-doctored list.

What does an indian group gain:

1) Killing muslims. Thats what they gained in Gujarat riots.

The catalist in that case was burning 60 hindus in the Sabarmati. In this case there was no catalist. So your point is refusted.

2) Derailing the peace process as many of these guys don't want any peace.

Wrong they (i.e the Sang orgs) were in power in the previous govt, the Lahore bus and peace process was started by them. Point refuted.

3) Getting their monthly/weekly/yearly quota of killing muslims filled.
4) Killing Pakistanis

Irrelavent, ignored.

5) Showing incompetence of indian government

Our guys do that by strikes/ street demonstrations, they are idiots but not butchers. Point refuted.

6) Indian embarrasment

Thats a Pak gain not what an Indian would do.

7) Getting Pakistan more hated because they know that whoever does this, Pakistan is going to get blamed in anyway.

We don't need do much in that aspect, Musharraf is doing an excellent job himself.

What does a Pakistani group gain:

1) Bad image for Pakistan, considering they know for a fact that whoever does anything like this in india, Pakistan is to get blamed anyway

2) Getting indians killed

But Pakistanis were targted.

3) Derailing the peace process

What peace process?

Your rebuttle seems to be writen in anger, hence many of your were incoherent.

Wait till some proof comes out, such things are never hidden. ISI chief sending money to Mohd Atta - also was never hidden.