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Russia-Ukraine War - News and Developments PART 2

80% of muslim countries don't support each other and have internal open confrontation (Iraq/Iran, Saudi/Iran, Saudi/Yemen, Sudan/Sudan, Libya/Libya, Syria/Syria). And when they don't have open conflict, they still don't support (GCC cowards establishing relationships with Israel, supporting India despite policies).

So the idea that jews should support jews is just idiotic. Get a bit of introspection before making these statements. If muslim nations supported other muslim nations, Israel would be in real trouble

No Europeans have been killing each other for 1000s of years

When not killing each other you turn to Africa or Middle East

Muslim have had Jerusalem for 95% of history the Europeans divided the Muslim world with flag for each nation + installed a dictator to ensure unity doesn’t happen

It lasted from end of Ottomans till now which is why Muslim world was weak and Israel even existed with US backing it

But now unity is back and nations like Turkey Pakistan and Malaysia and many others are close nit

Also a multi polar world means US cannot solely back israel so their time is coming too

Don’t worry keep fighting each other Islam has entered Europe too much we are going nowhere now

You took Spain we came back and took the entire continent

Don’t worry everything will be in order soon enough
 
when BBC starts reporting the Ukrainian dead as their top story as casualties mount it means the situation must be very serious


Dying by the dozens every day' - Ukraine losses climb​

 

A Few Days Before The Total Mobilization In Ukraine. Military Summary And Analysis For 2023.08.29

 
No Europeans have been killing each other for 1000s of years

No , they actually stoped about 70 years ago - and Europe became the most sucesful and peaceful place on Earth.

But you , for some twisted reason , want them and the world with them , to go back to those dark times.

~
 
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'Dying by the dozens every day' - Ukraine losses climb​

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Cemetery in Lviv with flags for the war dead
IMAGE SOURCE,DARREN CONWAY/BBC
Image caption,
Flags fly above soldiers' graves in a cemetery in Lviv
There has been a dramatic rise in Ukraine's number of dead, according to new estimates by unnamed US officials. The BBC's Quentin Sommerville has been on the front line in the east, where the grim task of counting the dead has become a daily reality.
The unknown soldiers lie piled high in a small brick mortuary, not very far from the front line in Donetsk, where 26-year-old Margo says she speaks to the dead.
"It may sound weird… but I'm the one who wants to apologise for their deaths. I want to thank them somehow. It's as if they can hear, but they can't respond."
At her cluttered desk outside the mortuary's heavy door, she sits, pen in hand. It is her job to record the particulars of the fallen.

Ukraine gives no official toll of its war dead - the Ukrainian armed forces have reiterated that their war casualty numbers are a state secret - but Margo knows the losses are huge.
The figures remain classified. But US officials, quoted by the New York Times, recently put the number at 70,000 dead and as many as 120,000 injured. It is a staggering figure, from an armed forces estimated at only half a million strong. The UN has recorded 9,177 civilian deaths to date.


On Margo's inside right arm is a small tattoo of a mother and child, with the birthdate of her son recorded. Her manicured nails are painted in Ukrainian colours. She wears a black T-shirt with the words "I'M UKRAINIAN" on the front.
"The hardest is when you see a dead young guy who hasn't even reached 20, 22 years old. And realising they didn't die their own death," she says. "They were killed. They were killed for their own land. That's the most painful. You cannot get used to this. It's now getting to the point where it's just about [helping] the boys reach home."
The most difficult day of her life, she says, was when her common-law husband was brought into the mortuary on the day he died. Twenty-three-year-old Andrii was killed in battle on 29 December 2022.
"He died while defending his motherland," she says. "But then, for the umpteenth time, I've convinced myself that I should be here, I should be helping the fallen."
Margo
IMAGE SOURCE,DARREN CONWAY/BBC
Image caption,
Margo's hardest moment was the day she had to identify her own partner
The job has made her hard - like steel, she says. And no matter how painful it is to see the bodies being brought into the mortuary, she says she never cries in public.
"I keep all of this inside me [until] the evening when I come home. No-one sees my tears."

As recently as April, leaked estimates from the Pentagon put Ukrainian deaths at the much lower figure of 17,500. The alleged jump to more than 70,000 can be partly explained by the counter-offensive in the south. In its early days it was especially hard on Ukrainian infantry - "worse than Bakhmut" one brigade commander who is fighting there told me. The city in Donetsk fell to Russia in May in one of the bloodiest battles of the war so far.
Ukraine has now changed tactics there, but the beginning of the push to breach Russia's occupation defences in June was costly, for young newly trained soldiers in particular. They were dying "by the dozens" every day, one senior sergeant fighting around the Donetsk village of Velyka Novosilka told me in June.
At the mortuary, one of a number along the front line, they work to put names to the unknown soldiers, who come direct from the battlefield.
Body bags are brought outside, one at a time, and the search for clues begins. Inside the first body bag is the corpse of a young man, his eyes still open, his hands folded carefully across his lap. His face is cut, and there is a gash on the side of his leg. Another body is brought out, the fingers missing on the right hand, blood and battlefield mud stain his uniform.
Their pockets are cut open by mortuary staff, still full of the artefacts of everyday life - keys, a mobile phone, a wallet with family snaps. In death, these items are now clues that might reunite the unidentified with their families.
Written in black marker pen on another body bag, the word "Unidentified" is scored out and replaced with a man's name and army company details.

More body bags emerge, but reporting restrictions don't allow me to say how many.
A group of soldiers - commanders of various ranks - arrive in an army pick-up truck and pace outside the mortuary, smoking cigarettes. They inspect one body, to see if the soldier is from their platoon, company or battalion. It looks like he was killed in an artillery strike - part of his head is missing and the wounds to his body are severe, even worse when he is turned over.
"This is difficult. Unpleasant. But it's needed, part of our job. We have to give the boys a proper send-off," says a deputy battalion commander who goes by the call sign "Avocat".
More men from his unit will be brought to aid in the identification of the body, he says.
The reality of the scale of casualties is laid bare in Ukraine's cemeteries.
In the late afternoon sun around Krasnopilske cemetery in Dnipro, the heads of the sunflowers hang heavy - an honour-guard for the freshly dug graves that spread ever closer to the perimeter.
At one such graveside, 31-year-old Oksana weeps alone. Pictures of her dead husband Pavlo gaze down on her. The bearded and brawny junior sergeant was a power-lifting champion and personal trainer. He was killed during Ukraine's previous counter-offensive, near the city of Izium in November when a missile from a Russian helicopter struck his convoy.
Oksana
IMAGE SOURCE,DARREN CONWAY/BBC
Image caption,
Oksana cries by the graveside of her husband, who died in November
"He voluntarily went to defend our country," Oksana says. "He was a warrior at heart - freedom loving. He was the embodiment of our Ukrainian spirit."
It took time to identify Pavlo's body - he, along with others in the car, was badly burnt. Eventually he was recognised by a tattoo.
The yellow and blue of Ukrainian flags whip above each grave in the gentle breeze - there are hundreds of them. Each is a marker in the great tide of loss that sweeps daily across eastern and southern battlefields, filling cemeteries in towns and villages the length and breadth of Ukraine.
Picture of Oksana's husband Pavlo
IMAGE SOURCE,DARREN CONWAY/BBC
Image caption,
Oksana's husband Pavlo died in the first counter-offensive
A year and a half into this war, few families here have been left untouched by grief.
But still, there appears to be no slackening in the will to fight. If anything, the losses have, for now, galvanised the determination for victory.
Oksana and Pavlo made a wartime pact that if he died, she would join the military. For the past two months she's been serving as part of an aerial surveillance drone unit, on the outskirts of Bakhmut.
A week after we met in the cemetery, Oksana is in full body armour and heading to a forward position in search of a Russian anti-tank unit which is targeting Ukrainian forces. When we get there, the sound of artillery, almost entirely outgoing fire, is deafening.
Oksana
IMAGE SOURCE,DARREN CONWAY/BBC
Image caption,
Oksana has now signed up to the military herself
I ask her why she put herself in harm's way? It is her moral duty, she says, as she plays with the silver wedding ring on her right hand.
She says: "I just need to continue what he started. So, all his efforts were not in vain. Volunteering and donations are all good, but I want to be a part of it, a part of our victory in the future."
Short presentational grey line

Ukrainian Deputy Defence Minister Hanna Maliar earlier released a statement warning that those who release casualty numbers would be liable to criminal prosecution.
"Why is this data secret?" she asked rhetorically. "Because during the active phase of the war, the enemy uses the number of dead and wounded to calculate our likely further actions… If the enemy has this information, they will begin to understand some of our next steps."
The toll of the war hangs heavy on the men of the 68th Jaeger Brigade, who are fighting to stop Russian advances on the eastern front, near the town of Kupiansk.
In 35C-plus temperatures, we sought some shelter under camouflage netting, away from the midday heat and the ever-present danger of Russian drones. A deputy battalion commander who goes by the call-sign "Lermontov" was in a reflective and dark mood. Over freshly brewed coffee, he predicted a long war.
The Russians won't stop, he said, "you can't negotiate with them". The West doesn't understand this. Young soldiers who expected to be home in a year realise now, he said, they will be gone longer.
Map of Ukraine, show areas held or regained by Ukraine, under Russian military control and areas with limited Russian military control

He is a veteran of the fight in Donbas, he's been fighting Russia and its proxies since 2014. How long then did he expect this war to last? "Another 10 years," he replied.
His grim mood was understandable. On 1 August, the brigade's sergeant major and two other sergeants were killed in a single Russian mortar strike. "He was a legend," Lermontov said. The dead man's car was parked where he had left it, a few feet away. His personal belongings still inside.
As we spoke, Lermontov's phone buzzed. It was the mother of a soldier killed the week before. She wanted to know why young men with guns were being sent to attack Russian trenches if Ukraine had been gifted so much modern Western weaponry. But on this 600-mile front line many brigades lack the latest armoured vehicles or long-range guns. The reality is that in many of the trenches, Ukrainian soldiers have to make do. "I don't have an answer for her, she doesn't understand… we don't have everything," he told me.
At a medal ceremony, in the garden of a house which serves as a company base, I meet the brigade's commander, Colonel Oleksii. He had just returned from the sergeant major's funeral.
He told me: "We had two big [Russian attacks]. I think we were very successful, we found around 35 bodies. So I think basically we demolished one company."
Overall Russia's casualties are far greater, some 120,000 dead according to the latest US estimate. But its army, and population, is far larger. Ukrainian soldiers at the front line say Russia's ability to absorb pain appears limitless.
I ask Colonel Oleksii what he tells the families of the fallen.
"I just ask for forgiveness that I have not provided enough safety. Maybe I was a bad leader, bad planning. And I thank them for what they gave for this fight."
Follow Quentin on Instagram: www.instagram.com/quengram
 
No , they actually stoped about 70 years ago - and Europe became the most sucesful and peaceful place on Earth.

But you , for some twisted reason , want them and the world with them , to go back to those dark times.

~

Oh sorry yes you only stopped 70 years ago and still had the cold war and now war in Ukraine

So 7000 years of killing 70 years so called stopped and built what ? You robbed

Also only reason Europe prosper is because after WW2 Muslims came to Europe and built the nations

If Muslims didn’t come you would be living in caves
 
how dare the ukranians defend themselves instead of just rolling over to kiss the boots of their Bucha-style overlords that tried to destroy their nation and annex whatever part of ukranian land they could get their hands on.
Don’t recall the West accepting that argument when the Palestinians and Kashmiris fought back against Israeli and Indian occupation and atrocities, so spare this thread the moral bullshit and try to stick to objective commentary.

This war isn’t about ‘freedom, democracy’ and all that jazz - its global power politics with millions of innocent lives gambled and neither the West nor Russia have clean hands here.
 
Don’t recall the West accepting that argument when the Palestinians and Kashmiris fought back against Israeli and Indian occupation and atrocities, so spare this thread the moral bullshit and try to stick to objective commentary.

This war isn’t about ‘freedom, democracy’ and all that jazz - its global power politics with millions of innocent lives gambled and neither the West nor Russia have clean hands here.
I don't think he meant that at all.

This war is NOT about democracy, this war is not about Justice, this war is not about West vs East.

This war is about one thing, someone invaded my home, I will kill that someone until they stop doing that, and if they kill me, my family will protect my home and this war will stop either they kill all of us, or we kill all of them, or they stop invading.

It's this simple. You can think Russia is right, you can think Ukraine is right, does that really matter? You have your reason to try to justify invading my home, I have my reason to defend what's mind, and that language is universal It's really this simple. The "you" in this case is generic.
 
This war is about one thing, someone invaded my home, I will kill that someone until they stop doing that, and if they kill me, my family will protect my home and this war will stop either they kill all of us, or we kill all of them, or they stop invading.

It's this simple. You can think Russia is right, you can think Ukraine is right, does that really matter? You have your reason to try to justify invading my home, I have my reason to defend what's mind, and that language is universal It's really this simple. The "you" in this case is generic.
So you agree then that the same argument applies to the Palestinians fighting Israel and Kashmiris fighting India.
 
So you agree then that the same argument applies to the Palestinians fighting Israel and Kashmiris fighting India.
I agree nothing.

Again, what you are talking about is perspective, it really didn't matter what you agree, when you are in the frontline taking the hit, all these "Perspective" are pointless because it have nothing to do with you unless it is something tangible. You on one side while the other person on the other side. What you think does not really matter, what the other guy think really didn't matter. Because the war is going to go on regardless of what people in it, thinks. If you are Indian, you are always going to think India are right in Kashmiris issue, or if you are Israeli, you would think Israeli is on the right of Palestinian issue, but if you are Pakistani or Palestinian, you would think otherwise, and what Indian or Israeli think would not matter to a Pakistani or Palestinian and vice versa, which mean which perspective which party takes is a moot point. Because people in it are always going to think they are right.

So what come down to for a war is simple, what you can get from it? It's nothing if you come talk to me and tell me to go some place and kill someone because it was right to do, I can guarantee you no one in any warzone will think I am doing this for my country....and this war, is very simple, if I am an Ukrainian and you ask me why I fight the Russian, I would tell you I don't care about the American, I don't care about NATO, I don't care about Democracy, I fight because Russian is in my home and I did not invite them, you can blow smoke up my arse and tell me the west did this or the west instigated this, again, does that matter? It's not the west in my home, it's the Russian, just because you think whatever it was does not negate the fact that Russian is in my home and I don't want them there.

As the great Colonel Quinlan of Irish army said to the French Mercenary when they were laying in siege in Jadotville and the French offer them to surrender because it's no point to fight, to which he replied

"If you continue to attack, we will continue to response."

There are no right or wrong in a war, it's always just simply action and reaction.
 

In 13 Weeks, Ukraine Has Lost Just Five Of Its 71 Leopard 2 Tanks​

David AxeAug 28, 2023,
One destroyed Leopard 2A6 and one damaged one south of Mala Tokmachka.
One destroyed Leopard 2A6 and one damaged one south of Mala Tokmachka.

One destroyed Leopard 2A6 and one damaged one south of Mala Tokmachka.

Via WM BLood
In the 13 weeks since launching a long-anticipated counteroffensive along several axes in southern and eastern Ukraine, the Ukrainian army has lost just five of its 71 Leopard 2 tanks.


Many more of the German-made tanks—at least 10—have suffered damage. But the Ukrainians are repairing the damaged tanks at depots in Poland and Germany and returning them to the front.

The fundamental toughness of the 69-ton Leopard 2 means tanks might take damage, visit a repair depot, return to the fighting then again take damage and head out for repairs. So on and so forth. The Leopard 2 lends itself to recycling.

More importantly, it’s possible almost every crew member in the five destroyed tanks—20 people in all—escaped their vehicle before it burned or exploded.

“Even the most critically damaged equipment is recovered and taken for repairs,” explained Ukrainian soldier Olexandr Solon'ko. “You can replace a piece of metal, even if it's expensive, but you can't repair a human life.”

A consortium of NATO countries including Canada, Denmark, Germany, The Netherlands, Norway, Poland, Portugal, Spain and Sweden together have pledged to Ukraine 10 Strv 122s—Swedish-modified Leopard 2A5s—21 Leopard 2A6s and 74 Leopard 2A4s.

All of these tanks except 14 A4s already have arrived at the front line.


The 1980s-vintage A4 is the least sophisticated of the Leopard 2s. The ‘90s-vintage Strv 122 and A6 have a new composite armor mix, better optics and—in the case of the A6—a longer, farther-firing 120-millimeter main gun.

Perhaps most critically for the Leopard 2’s survival, German tank-makers KMW and Rheinmetall built the vehicles with special turret-mounted compartments for their 120-millimeter ammunition—compartments that explode outward, away from the crew, when struck.

Russian tanks by contrast stow their ammo under their turrets. When the ammo cooks off, it blows the turret—and the three crew—into the sky. That’s the main reason it’s a lot easier to damage a Leopard 2 and rattle its crew than it is to destroy a Leopard 2 and kill its crew. Whereas a clean hit on a Russian T-72 might catastrophically blow up the tank and crew.



Assuming every destroyed Leopard 2 has left behind visual evidence of its destruction, there have been just five total Leopard 2 write-offs since the Ukrainian counteroffensive began on June 4. The losses include two of the 50 deployed A4s and three of the 21 deployed A6s. No Strv 122s have been confirmed as destroyed.


“In the long run, it's impossible to entirely avoid armor losses,” Solon'ko wrote. “However, armor serves a specific purpose that entails risks.”

All the Leopard 2 losses have occurred in a 25-square-mile square anchored by Mala Tokmachka in the north and Robotyne in the south. The axis leading south from Robotyne through Tokmak to Melitopol, 50 miles to the south in Russian-occupied southern Ukraine, is the Ukrainian armed forces’ main effort as the counteroffensive grinds into its third month.

The Ukrainians aim to liberate Melitopol in order to sever the overland supply lines to the Russian garrison in occupied Crimea. Progress has been steady but slow: a six-brigade force led by the 82nd Air-Assault Brigade and the 47th Mechanized Brigade liberated Robotyne just last week.

It seems the Leopard 2A4s and A6s belong to the 33rd Mechanized Brigade, which has staged north of Robotyne but apparently detaches tank companies to support the 47th Brigade. The 82nd Brigade has its own ex-British Challenger 2 tanks.

The tanks lend heavy, long-range firepower to assault groups riding in M-2, Stryker and Marder fighting vehicles.

It’s been tough for the crews. They’ve rolled over mines, endured artillery barrages and swarms of explosive Lancet drones and dodged attack helicopters and aerial bombs. It seems the combination of mines and Lancets has been the most dangerous for the Leopard 2s. Mines damage the tanks’ tracks, immobilizing them. Lancets dive down to finish them off.


But the photos and videos documenting four of the five Leopard 2 losses depict open hatches on the tanks’ turrets and hulls—strong indications the crews bailed out. “They save lives,” Solon'ko wrote about Western combat vehicles.

With five tanks permanently out of action and as many as 10 at depots for repair, Ukrainian brigades still share more than 50 active Leopard 2s out of the 71 in the initial consignment. A fresh batch of 14 Leopard 2A4s, scheduled to arrive early next year, should more than make good the losses.

More Western-made tanks are en route, including 31 ex-American M-1s that are even more heavily armored than most Leopard 2s are.

But the Ukrainians also are getting at least 165 German-made Leopard 1A5s that—in stark contrast to the Leopard 2s, Challenger 2s and M-1s—have minimal armor protection. Ukrainian brigades can’t expect the Leopard 1s to muscle through attacks the way the Leopard 2s have done.
 
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